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Official Suggestions Thread

Ragnarokio

AVATAR NOT BY JIMMU
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remove the rule banning the use of multiple accounts
 

Shroom

The Artist Formally Known as Deku Shroom™
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It absolutely should not be changed. Special permissions for mafia games are one thing, but multiple accounts would solely be used to get around bans. Krow being a perfect example of someone who got recently banned was doing disgusting **** behind the scenes, had a second account where he role played as his "sister", and used the outward appearance of being a woman to get past people's guards for nefarious reasons.

It's fine as is. You can change your name on your account within a set period of time, Jimmu has been more than lax as far as special cases go, and there really isn't an in between other than dodging bans or spam.
 
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Ragnarokio

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but multiple accounts would solely be used to get around bans. Krow being a perfect example of someone who got recently banned was doing disgusting **** behind the scenes, had a second account where he role played as his "sister", and used the outward appearance of being a woman to get past people's guards for nefarious reasons.
it sounds like krow didn't use it to get around a ban, so the assertion that they would solely be used to get around bans seems false.

I don't see why you can't just make ban evasion or "nefarious disgusting ****" against the rules. Surely krow could have been banned for being emotionally manipulative and abusive to the degree he was even if he hadn't used multiple accounts.

If someone wants to use multiple accounts for an innocuous reason, I don't see why you also need to punish them. This isn't even a case of needing to punish them in order to also punish the people using multiple accounts for malicious reasons. You can just exclusively ban the malicious cases without much effort.
 
We had an instance in the past where a user joined under a username that he didn't actually intend to use, but he wanted to have dibs on that name so no one else could have it, and then made another account for his actual forum use. He was open about the alt when confronted about it, and it was dealt with by having the accounts merged. If we exclude all of the potential problems that could arise from people using alts to pretend to be other people (this applies to both evading bans and the aforementioned situation with Krow), the existence of hoarding usernames so other people can't have them is going to part of the culture that comes with this privilege.

Outside of certain boards where they may be practical, I don't think it's worth it. If you can't make contributing posts with one account, then what is the second account actually for? Posting in discussions and just passing the baton between your two accounts to be the one to share your opinion?
 

Ragnarokio

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the existence of hoarding usernames so other people can't have them is going to part of the culture that comes with this privilege.
The only sites i've been on where this is a problem are sites with hundreds of thousands or millions of accounts. I feel like it won't be an issue here , although admittedly with the focus on the zelda IP there are a smaller number of usernames which may be specifically desirable. I feel like its the type of problem which should be worried about after it happens rather than before though.

If you can't make contributing posts with one account, then what is the second account actually for?
I've been on communities where socking was widely accepted and expected and a lot of people engaged in it. I can't speak to the reasoning of others, but I can speculate and I can express why I've engaged in it in the past.

1) Roleplaying - People might enjoy interacting with the community using a persona. They might make a funky kong account and then post on the community as if they were funky kong. They might want to continue using their regular account while they do this, or they might want to keep the actor behind the character hidden.

2) Fresh Start - People might enjoy re-engaging with the community under a new identity, and being given the opportunity to interact with the community in a setting where people don't already have impressions of them formed. As an example, someone in the MD section might want to engage in debates using a fresh identity to prevent others' impressions of them as a person from influencing their opinions on their arguments. Someone who is questioning their gender might want to try interacting with the community using a differently gendered identity to see what it is like. Similar motivations can exist in other social settings.

3) Expression - People might simply enjoy expressing themselves and exploring social settings using multiple identities or accounts. In the same way that someone might enjoy using certain words, or using a certain name or avatar, someone might enjoy using multiple accounts.
 

Shroom

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it sounds like krow didn't use it to get around a ban, so the assertion that they would solely be used to get around bans seems false.

I don't see why you can't just make ban evasion or "nefarious disgusting ****" against the rules. Surely krow could have been banned for being emotionally manipulative and abusive to the degree he was even if he hadn't used multiple accounts.

If someone wants to use multiple accounts for an innocuous reason, I don't see why you also need to punish them. This isn't even a case of needing to punish them in order to also punish the people using multiple accounts for malicious reasons. You can just exclusively ban the malicious cases without much effort.

We've had past users use it to get around bans. A guy named Ventus was the prime example. He would use alternate accounts to troll. Krow had used multiple accounts on top of what he was doing, but multiple accounts made his actions easier to perform. We shouldn't be promoting it, and every web forum I've been part of, this has been a norm. I think you're purposefully being aloof about this to cause an issue.

Again, Jimmu has been more than lenient on special cases or instances, and he's very accessible. The first two reasons you listed for have been handled in the past and can be case by case, and the final reason you listed has resulted in harassment in the past. We've had users harass and stalk members, now imagine being paranoid about that with every potential user you see? The negative outweighs the good. You can say that you could simply ban whoever and ban evasion could occur, but I've known people who get so paranoid that they've stopped using the site because of members like this.
 

DekuNut

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I'm going to step in and agree with keeping the no alts rule. It's been handled well; harmless alts like Wilton and Steve the Pirate were given minimal pain, and unfortunately, Ventus and Krow are only two of a multitude of users who have used alts for nefarious purposes over the years. If someone really wants an alt for a legit purpose, honestly I think the staff would be open to that. You just need to be open and honest about things.
(Though note that I'm not staff, have never been staff, and cannot speak for staff. I'm just saying they handle this well)
 

Vanessa28

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To put in my two cents, ZD is known for not allowing dupes. So if you got a problem with that then it's YOUR problem. It's not like the rules are suddenly changed because you disagree. We've gotten plenty of issues with people creating dupes in the past. And not just one but like really a lot and yes some did this also to get around bans. It's okay to have an opinion but you make it sound like it's a big issue ZD doesn't allow dupes. It is what it is. In some cases dupes are allowed like with secret santa and some events. Just like Shroom said if you need an alt for legitimate reasons you can always discuss this with the staff. That's better than creating one out of the blue
 

Ninja

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Frax and Shroom have been completely spot on with the cons about this. Letting people have as many accounts as they want just for the sake of it just opens up a whirlwind of bad possibilities. As previously stated, Jimmu does a fantastic job at looking at case-by-case basis for alternate accounts. If an extreme situation occurs where an alt is necessary, put the trust in our admins @Jimmu and @Vanessa28 to assist.

For the record, based off of what has happened in the past and even in the recent year, I am not in favor of removing the "no alt's" rule.
 

Cfrock

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It's been said already, but it bears saying again. There's a history of people using alt accounts on here to cause problems, such as evading bans, stalking people, and manipulating people. Each of these alone is justification for the rule against alt accounts.

As the person who wants an alt account for a harmless reason, it's easy to see the rule as restrictive, but consider the effect of alts from the perspective of other members. Using an alt, regardless of intent, is fundamentally deceptive and dishonest. Even if you never do anything harmful with it, the mere fact that one person is posing as two will make some people uncomfortable with both accounts, as neither is trustworthy. And once trust is lost, any time a new member joins the forum there will be those wondering 'Is this another alt?' That kind of anxiety ruins the experience for others.

And for what? So someone can pretend to be Funky Kong? So someone can post in MD threads disingenuously? I'd argue that encouraging that kind of behaviour is inherently harmful to the forum. But when you factor in that allowing it also opens the opportunity for people to abuse alts the ways we've seen in the past, it becomes almost absurd to argue in favour of them. There's no benefit, and too many potential issues.
 

Ragnarokio

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We've had past users use it to get around bans. A guy named Ventus was the prime example. He would use alternate accounts to troll. Krow had used multiple accounts on top of what he was doing, but multiple accounts made his actions easier to perform.
I feel like allowing multiple accounts won't result in more ban evasion happening, nor will it allow in more trolling happening. Both of those things are already against the rules. Allowing multiple accounts effectively only affects people who are doing so whilst following the rules. People who do not care whether or not they are following the rules in the first place will just make as many accounts as they want anyways. (and will ideally be punished for doing so when it is caught). Krow's use of multiple accounts may have aided in his abusive behaviour, but it was also banned from the site at the time that he did it, which just further emphasizes the point.

The site rules act as a description as to what behaviour isn't allowed. For most rules, the behaviours that are banned are harmful in and of themselves, I think. Flaming, Trolling, Vulgar language, Spoiling people, Plagiarizing, Spamming and so forth are all things that hurt or inconvenience others. While its true that alt accounts can be used as a tool to hurt or inconvenience others, i think that as long as you ban people for hurting and inconveniencing others, there's no point in banning alt accounts themselves. Every example of problematic multi-account use thats come up so far has involved people doing things on alternate accounts that they'd be banned for anyways, and then if it was found they were multi-accounting their mains would be banned as well. There've also been several examples of innocuous alts used here and they've all been not punished, which is good, but if multi-accounting is allowed sometimes and not allowed when its being used to break other rules, then why is it against the rules to begin with?

I think you're purposefully being aloof about this to cause an issue.
I'm expressing myself honestly. Also, what issue am I causing? If arguing against this rule is bothering people I'd be happy to stop. I was under the impression that posting about this sort of this was kosher here, but maybe i was mistaken. If that's the case I'm sorry.

We've had users harass and stalk members, now imagine being paranoid about that with every potential user you see? The negative outweighs the good. You can say that you could simply ban whoever and ban evasion could occur, but I've known people who get so paranoid that they've stopped using the site because of members like this.
This is a reasonable perspective I think and its probably the best reason to keep the rule. As long as innocuous cases are permitted, which it sounds like they are, then I have no real complaints about the rule to begin with. While I don't think that banning multi-accounting will actually make a difference in stalker's ability to access the site, I do think it could reasonably provide peace of mind for victims, and to that end its justified. In any case, it seems like a lot of people are invested in the rule for one reason or another, so I don't think arguing about it will result in anything happening.

Thank you everyone who responded with your own opinions, I appreciate your perspectives, and I'm sorry if i bothered any of you by posting what I did.
 

Morbid Minish

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Oct 1, 2016
To put in my two cents, ZD is known for not allowing dupes. So if you got a problem with that then it's YOUR problem. It's not like the rules are suddenly changed because you disagree.
It's okay to have an opinion but you make it sound like it's a big issue ZD doesn't allow dupes.
I don't think Rag made a big deal out of it at all and was just stating her opinion. She wasn't even inflammatory about it and did so in a respectful way. This thread is about suggestions and she provided her suggestion.

I also don't think that alts should be allowed except for certain circumstances. But geez some of y'all acting like she's causing some big problem when she's just providing her opinion. There are plenty of communities that don't have problems with alts and Rag comes from one. Of course she would see some benefit to it and it's fair for her to share those benefits. And not be called a troll.
 
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Stitch

Local Alien
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Aug 13, 2013
I think that the idea of allowing alt accounts should be looked into, but with restrictions put in place such as having it run through staff first probably with the expectation that staff can essentially nix any alt they want to. I heavily disagree with the idea of just freely allowing any alts as I think that opens up a buttload of issues, but they could be something fun to allow members to experiment with in the right conditions.
 

el :BeoWolf:

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But geez some of y'all acting like she's causing some big problem when she's just providing her opinion. There are plenty of communities that don't have problems with alts
The issue is WE have had issues with alts. Other communities may be better or worse but WE on zd have had issues and have measures to STOP those issues
 

ExLight

Reading the Akashic Records
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The issue is WE have had issues with alts. Other communities may be better or worse but WE on zd have had issues and have measures to STOP those issues
You cropped the message and it kinda changed its meaning. They’re pointing out the cultural differences and asking yall to take a chill pill, not supporting the use of alts.
 

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