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Official Suggestions Thread

Ragnarokio

AVATAR NOT BY JIMMU
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
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Honest question: Why do you guys want alts so bad? You already have them for mafia, so like... why? I genuinely don't even understand why you're all putting so much energy into this.

Its just something I've come to enjoy and I enjoy being on this community and so i thought it was worth bringing up. Its not a big deal to me. As for why I'm putting as much energy into it as I am, i guess its because i enjoy posting on forums and talking about things like this, and so i don't really see it as a cost. Whether or not my suggestion ends up resulting in any sort of difference its interesting and informative to be able to talk with other people about the topic.
 

Shroom

The Artist Formally Known as Deku Shroom™
Joined
Jan 21, 2011
Gender
Fun Guy
I'll just outright say it, because it seems to be what everyone who has had an issue with Rag's suggestion seemed to have been trying to do in the first place due to the timing: We just had a semi-heated discussion that put strain on whatever you'd like to call it, "forum relations" that is pushing this "Mafia vs Everyone" sort of narrative, and when that settles down, pushes another issue that is likely to get a stir without any explanation. It was already an issue in the past for some when mafia was allowed to have alts when that was against the rules as a whole, so it's just pushing the boundary for what others would see as special treatment.

Rag has trolled before, I found when she had first joined with Jimmu's avatar as a profile picture funny myself, but it's not out of character for Rag to try and get a rise out of people. If it was sincere request, it definitely needed some more explanation other than a blanket statement. Why not put the reasoning within the initial post? It's why I personally doubted its genuineness.
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Yes, anyone can break the rules and tiptoe around it, but when you openly invite it, you are here to create more problems. Rules are there, and people are still going to break them, but you give them a shield when they "technically" aren't doing anything wrong. Say I harass a user on this account to the point that they don't want to talk to me, well, I rejoin as another user and do nothing wrong to them at all, act like an entirely different person. I can feign remorse and get away with potentially more harassment. There's been plenty of users that have harassed users and made them feel uncomfortable without "technically" breaking the rules, so you can keep giving them more and more until it's hard to push a ban. We already had people make big commotions over people like triforceking for being banned because they didn't see him break a rule or do anything wrong, but I mean, the dude was making people uncomfortable with his outwardly sexual messages. If he had wanted to make an alt to find ways to get closer to others, sure, he could have, but as it stands now, it'd be pretty obvious as to why he was and that could be a reason towards his ban (thank god he was), but otherwise, it'd just be another check on the "that's kinda odd, but not against the rules!!!" side of things.

If it's hard enough to get a ban for users who actually need to be gone with our current lax rules, then no, I don't see the point in changing them. I also don't appreciate the feeling I get that this was done with the sole purpose of driving a bigger divide between people in the community. If it isn't, then fine, I guess I misread, but the timing just seems to be way too convenient.

(I've chosen to remove this portion of my post. I extend my apologies again to Rag for the assumption.)
 
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Spiritual Mask Salesman

CHIMer Dragonborn
Staff member
Comm. Coordinator
Site Staff
Also, to add onto everything, I sincerely hope that the thread in the Lorule Lounge here: https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/repentance.68535/#post-1235194 wasn't meant to be a jab at Jamie. Again, the timing seems dubious, and I don't wish to think anyone would turn a personal forum tragedy into a joke, but it seems weird. The word in itself is rather uncommon, the thread came out of no where, it seems just way too fishy. So I guess I'm weary of you Rag and your intentions. I would like to not be, and I'd like the forums to be much more unified, but I just don't know how to ever read you.
Rag was a very close friend to Jamie within his last few years, but was unaware of his former usernames here.
 

Morbid Minish

Spooky Scary Skeleton.
Forum Volunteer
Honest question: Why do you guys want alts so bad? You already have them for mafia, so like... why? I genuinely don't even understand why you're all putting so much energy into this.

If you'd pay attention almost everyone is against it.

I also don't appreciate the feeling I get that this was done with the sole purpose of driving a bigger divide between people in the community. If it isn't, then fine, I guess I misread, but the timing just seems to be way too convenient.

I can tell you this is something Rag has discussed in a discord server before. It's not to cause a divide or anything. She genuinely sees benefits to it and it's something I have seen her discuss before. This isn't even about mafia or anything. We have gotten Jimmu to create and control alts for it before with no issues so the mafia community has no problems with how it's handled.

Also, to add onto everything, I sincerely hope that the thread in the Lorule Lounge here: https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/repentance.68535/#post-1235194 wasn't meant to be a jab at Jamie. Again, the timing seems dubious, and I don't wish to think anyone would turn a personal forum tragedy into a joke, but it seems weird. The word in itself is rather uncommon, the thread came out of no where, it seems just way too fishy. So I guess I'm weary of you Rag and your intentions. I would like to not be, and I'd like the forums to be much more unified, but I just don't know how to ever read you.

I also happen to know that Rag and Jamie were pretty good friends and he invited her here. So no that's not what that was about and it's kinda not cool to suggest it, seeing as Rag also lost a friend then. I don't believe she even knew he was called Repentance at one point.
 

Mellow Ezlo

Spoony Bard
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Location
eh?
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Slothkin
Rag has trolled before, I found when she had first joined with Jimmu's avatar as a profile picture funny myself, but it's not out of character for Rag to try and get a rise out of people. If it was sincere request, it definitely needed some more explanation other than a blanket statement. Why not put the reasoning within the initial post? It's why I personally doubted its genuineness.
You're gonna need to back this up because I don't recall Rag ever intentionally trying to get a rise out of people. As one of the group of people who have gotten to know her lately, she is super nice and has no intention of trying to cause problems.

Also, to add onto everything, I sincerely hope that the thread in the Lorule Lounge here: https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/repentance.68535/#post-1235194 wasn't meant to be a jab at Jamie. Again, the timing seems dubious, and I don't wish to think anyone would turn a personal forum tragedy into a joke, but it seems weird. The word in itself is rather uncommon, the thread came out of no where, it seems just way too fishy. So I guess I'm weary of you Rag and your intentions. I would like to not be, and I'd like the forums to be much more unified, but I just don't know how to ever read you.
Rag and Jamie were extremely close, closer than most in fact. And Repentance was long before her and Rubik's time so I doubt they even knew about his old username.

This accusation is extremely offensive when its directed towards one of the people who were most saddened by his death.
 

Rubik

King of Lorule Lounge
Joined
Jan 19, 2018
Location
California
Gender
Horsehead
Why is this thread so active then?
Most of the replies are people saying they don't think alts should be legal, but that it's a valid topic to discuss and that disrespecting that point of view is wrong. If there's any contention, it's because it's being treated like it's not a valid perspective by a small minority of the replies.

I personally don't think alts should be legal because the fact that they aren't is a part of the culture of the forum that seems to be important to a lot of the people here and staff seems to be able to make exceptions in the instances where it's appropriate to do so. I do, personally, think it's a perfectly valid discussion to have and that there are plenty of other communities where having different rules is fine and it shouldn't be treated like a "no brainer" when in reality it's something you might only know works better for ZD because you've been a member on ZD for long enough to understand that aspect of the culture.
 
Here's my two cents on Alts. I personally agree that the rule disallowing alts should stay, but on the flip side, what happens when someone comes back after, I dunno, 5 years? And they no longer have access to their original Email, because it got deleted for some awful reason? I remember one site I was a member of, "The Dessert Collossus" where the Email I signed up with was deleted because someone hacked into mu account and send crude emails which in turn got warnings that, being a dumb kid that didn't know what they were, got deleted.

A few years ago, a similar incident happened with a MMO(Massivly Multiplayer Online) game, Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2. I lost access you the game, the devs set both games up where they both used the same email AND password. I forgot the pass and backed away, and eventually deleted the email associated with the game, and later asked the support team if I could have a new email added as mu log in email, which I used to set up a new password.

I personally understand where in dire cases one would need to at least make an alternate account just to gain access to the still active "older" account. Other than that, I don't think keeping said alt would be good.
 

Jimmu

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
I'll start by saying that I think people should be able to make suggestions here as they see fit. I think it is better to give the benefit of the doubt here that suggestions are in good faith. If enough people disagree with a suggestion (as is obvious in this case) then it will be discounted - so it is better to do this with less need for abrasion. The official suggestions thread shouldn't be the place to name drop people or vent out personal issues.

As for the suggestion itself:

Anyone who has been forum staff on this website at some point or another and those that have been around to observe certain situations play out would understand why the no alts policy is important and justified. I've seen many cases where alts have been used to deceive people and cause harm in the past.

I generally don't think people (especially those who are known already well amongst the community) should be able to resurface as a new personality without the knowledge of most of the forum base. There is no way for me or the forum staff to know all of what goes on behind the scenes between members here. So if someone signs up as an alternate account to "start afresh" there is no way for us to confirm what ulterior motives may or may not be behind this request. Our job is to do the best we can to protect our members here under our watch and while I don't think we have always done the perfect job, I think this rule needs to be a part of that task's strategy. Obviously there are ways for people to get around detection on this, but we shouldn't just give up on banning murder because some people can get away with it.

Based on the fact that the vast majority of people here seem to agree that a rule of open alts just isn't compatible with the forum culture here that is enough for me to see that the rule should stay as it is.

In situations like those mentioned by @Killjoy we are happy for members to either use the contact form to let us know, or if they sign up with a new account they can approach us via private message and we can discuss what to do. This has happened a few times in the past, and obviously where we are approached right away and told that they are signing up under this new account because an old password was lost there would be no need for any kind of punishment (we would just merge the accounts together where we can verify for sure that the new user actually was the owner of the old account or discuss alternative options if that is not possible). We are quite reasonable with these things.

I don't see any issue with alternative accounts set up by the staff for reasons like the Mafia ones are. Those are set with such limited permissions that they can only access the mafia section and we know who has access to them. If there was a need for an account for a roleplay (which would be similarly restricted to the roleplay forum only) I could be open to discussing this on a case by case basis - but I'd rather not create a large amount of alternative accounts for the one person so the details would need to be negotiated. Also as others have mentioned too I am always approachable to hear other cases out fairly when people feel as they have some legitimate reason to want a different account.
 

Ninja

Well well well
Joined
Jul 5, 2017
Hi all,

First and foremost, thank you everyone for your patience, and passion regarding the recent posts in this thread. After deliberation, we have removed a considerable amount of the posts that was back-and-forth arguing, and kept some of the posts around that had solid viewpoints and discussion.

Mez was pretty spot on with his above post, Jimmy had some good points in his post above, please refer to that if you have any questions. Going forward please keep the thread civil, and continue to use the report feature. I appreciate that we have this open forum to discuss things we are passionate about, while still being mature enough to have a good dialogue. Happy Sunday!
 

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