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Official Suggestions Thread

Jack Slothington

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I disagree with allowing the creation of alt accounts with free reign, but they are already in allowed in some capacity depending on circumstances. For instance, we've used alt accounts in mafia games before, and there was an instance a few years ago in which people made harmless alts as a fun lighthearted way to celebrate someone's birthday. These kind of things are fine, but there have been far too many cases of alts being used for malicious and manipulative purposes in the past that I think it is in the best interests of the site, and in some cases its people's safety, to keep the rule as is. Luckily, we have an extremely understanding leader here who takes everything to heart, so if you want to make an alt for any reason, just talk to Jimmu. If you agree to merge the accounts afterward, you might be surprised by what you are able to do by talking about it first.

With that said, I don't believe every response to Rag's initial suggestion to be completely fair. To say she's trying to cause trouble is far from true and pretty rude, as it's known that she comes from a different site culture where the use of alternate accounts is totally fine and sometimes encouraged. It was an honest, genuine suggestion that could have been responded to in a more respectful manner from some people. It's fine to disagree, I do myself, but there's no need to be condescending.
 

ExLight

Reading the Akashic Records
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The only sites i've been on where this is a problem are sites with hundreds of thousands or millions of accounts. I feel like it won't be an issue here , although admittedly with the focus on the zelda IP there are a smaller number of usernames which may be specifically desirable. I feel like its the type of problem which should be worried about after it happens rather than before though.



I've been on communities where socking was widely accepted and expected and a lot of people engaged in it. I can't speak to the reasoning of others, but I can speculate and I can express why I've engaged in it in the past.

1) Roleplaying - People might enjoy interacting with the community using a persona. They might make a funky kong account and then post on the community as if they were funky kong. They might want to continue using their regular account while they do this, or they might want to keep the actor behind the character hidden.

2) Fresh Start - People might enjoy re-engaging with the community under a new identity, and being given the opportunity to interact with the community in a setting where people don't already have impressions of them formed. As an example, someone in the MD section might want to engage in debates using a fresh identity to prevent others' impressions of them as a person from influencing their opinions on their arguments. Someone who is questioning their gender might want to try interacting with the community using a differently gendered identity to see what it is like. Similar motivations can exist in other social settings.

3) Expression - People might simply enjoy expressing themselves and exploring social settings using multiple identities or accounts. In the same way that someone might enjoy using certain words, or using a certain name or avatar, someone might enjoy using multiple accounts.
hi, ily rag

I feel like if a sock account is necessary for a roleplay to work out they can probably request and sort it out with staff to gain access to one limited at that section just like mafia players have already done. I don't see why a general rule should be changed, possibly affecting the entire site, when the intention behind it is roleplaying.

If the returning person has a clear record, fresh starts can also probably be sorted out with someone from the staff to avoid later misunderstandings. If the person is coming back from a long time break they probably don't even have to justify the same IP or anything, if anyone finds out and asks they can just say they lost their password or something. In this case I'm assuming the person won't be using two accounts around the same time, so I'm not even sure if I'd consider this a major reason to allow alts.

About the expression one, I feel like it might be unfortunate if some people can’t fully express themselves like they’d wish to but I’m sure there are probably other ways for them to do so since I can hardly see this as essential for a large group of members. Even so, not all kinds of expressions are allowed at will since some can disrupt the normality, and because of that I feel like many other important rules could end up be removed if we were to prioritize expressions over order which is probably not ideal here.

So, as I said, I don't think preventive rules should be removed, that feels like asking for ill-intended people to abuse it.
To name a few issues I can think right off the bat: use them to alternately spread the responsibility of warnings, and minor/major infractions, making these way less effective than they are; accounts created actively for flaming and trolling; 'cheating' on forum games, art competitions, giveaways, community related polls and awards, etc.
Not to mention the extra work of keeping track if all accounts have been behaving properly and having to fear them having a moe-esque breakdown and flooding the forum with all of them just for the sake of it.

I feel like some people mentioned here that the forum has already had issues with alt accounts before, and I feel like that's a practical proof that in at least this specific forum this might be a bad idea.

But, honestly, I kinda feel like the rules being there atm don't even do much and are there more to intimidate than anything. Which is not necessarily bad since they still prevent some cases from even starting, but I just feel like it could be enforced better. Are the new accounts' IPs constantly checked and matched to the active ones from the time they're created? If someone just downloaded a VPN or whatever cool kids use could they hid/modified their public IP, and would the staff be able to know? If someone is found out to be sharing the same IP as another account, how does one prove they're the same person?

I feel like anyone can just tiptoe here with an alt if they really want to, so I find it kinda weirdly amusing that people are so vehemently defending a rule that seems mostly for show at the moment.
 

Ragnarokio

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Honest question: Why do you guys want alts so bad? You already have them for mafia, so like... why? I genuinely don't even understand why you're all putting so much energy into this.
Its just something I've come to enjoy and I enjoy being on this community and so i thought it was worth bringing up. Its not a big deal to me. As for why I'm putting as much energy into it as I am, i guess its because i enjoy posting on forums and talking about things like this, and so i don't really see it as a cost. Whether or not my suggestion ends up resulting in any sort of difference its interesting and informative to be able to talk with other people about the topic.
 

Shroom

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I'll just outright say it, because it seems to be what everyone who has had an issue with Rag's suggestion seemed to have been trying to do in the first place due to the timing: We just had a semi-heated discussion that put strain on whatever you'd like to call it, "forum relations" that is pushing this "Mafia vs Everyone" sort of narrative, and when that settles down, pushes another issue that is likely to get a stir without any explanation. It was already an issue in the past for some when mafia was allowed to have alts when that was against the rules as a whole, so it's just pushing the boundary for what others would see as special treatment.

Rag has trolled before, I found when she had first joined with Jimmu's avatar as a profile picture funny myself, but it's not out of character for Rag to try and get a rise out of people. If it was sincere request, it definitely needed some more explanation other than a blanket statement. Why not put the reasoning within the initial post? It's why I personally doubted its genuineness.
----

Yes, anyone can break the rules and tiptoe around it, but when you openly invite it, you are here to create more problems. Rules are there, and people are still going to break them, but you give them a shield when they "technically" aren't doing anything wrong. Say I harass a user on this account to the point that they don't want to talk to me, well, I rejoin as another user and do nothing wrong to them at all, act like an entirely different person. I can feign remorse and get away with potentially more harassment. There's been plenty of users that have harassed users and made them feel uncomfortable without "technically" breaking the rules, so you can keep giving them more and more until it's hard to push a ban. We already had people make big commotions over people like triforceking for being banned because they didn't see him break a rule or do anything wrong, but I mean, the dude was making people uncomfortable with his outwardly sexual messages. If he had wanted to make an alt to find ways to get closer to others, sure, he could have, but as it stands now, it'd be pretty obvious as to why he was and that could be a reason towards his ban (thank god he was), but otherwise, it'd just be another check on the "that's kinda odd, but not against the rules!!!" side of things.

If it's hard enough to get a ban for users who actually need to be gone with our current lax rules, then no, I don't see the point in changing them. I also don't appreciate the feeling I get that this was done with the sole purpose of driving a bigger divide between people in the community. If it isn't, then fine, I guess I misread, but the timing just seems to be way too convenient.

(I've chosen to remove this portion of my post. I extend my apologies again to Rag for the assumption.)
 
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SMS Hyde

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Also, to add onto everything, I sincerely hope that the thread in the Lorule Lounge here: https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/repentance.68535/#post-1235194 wasn't meant to be a jab at Jamie. Again, the timing seems dubious, and I don't wish to think anyone would turn a personal forum tragedy into a joke, but it seems weird. The word in itself is rather uncommon, the thread came out of no where, it seems just way too fishy. So I guess I'm weary of you Rag and your intentions. I would like to not be, and I'd like the forums to be much more unified, but I just don't know how to ever read you.
Rag was a very close friend to Jamie within his last few years, but was unaware of his former usernames here.
 

Morbid Minish

Forum Volunteer
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Oct 1, 2016
Honest question: Why do you guys want alts so bad? You already have them for mafia, so like... why? I genuinely don't even understand why you're all putting so much energy into this.
If you'd pay attention almost everyone is against it.

I also don't appreciate the feeling I get that this was done with the sole purpose of driving a bigger divide between people in the community. If it isn't, then fine, I guess I misread, but the timing just seems to be way too convenient.
I can tell you this is something Rag has discussed in a discord server before. It's not to cause a divide or anything. She genuinely sees benefits to it and it's something I have seen her discuss before. This isn't even about mafia or anything. We have gotten Jimmu to create and control alts for it before with no issues so the mafia community has no problems with how it's handled.

Also, to add onto everything, I sincerely hope that the thread in the Lorule Lounge here: https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/repentance.68535/#post-1235194 wasn't meant to be a jab at Jamie. Again, the timing seems dubious, and I don't wish to think anyone would turn a personal forum tragedy into a joke, but it seems weird. The word in itself is rather uncommon, the thread came out of no where, it seems just way too fishy. So I guess I'm weary of you Rag and your intentions. I would like to not be, and I'd like the forums to be much more unified, but I just don't know how to ever read you.
I also happen to know that Rag and Jamie were pretty good friends and he invited her here. So no that's not what that was about and it's kinda not cool to suggest it, seeing as Rag also lost a friend then. I don't believe she even knew he was called Repentance at one point.
 

Jack Slothington

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Rag has trolled before, I found when she had first joined with Jimmu's avatar as a profile picture funny myself, but it's not out of character for Rag to try and get a rise out of people. If it was sincere request, it definitely needed some more explanation other than a blanket statement. Why not put the reasoning within the initial post? It's why I personally doubted its genuineness.
You're gonna need to back this up because I don't recall Rag ever intentionally trying to get a rise out of people. As one of the group of people who have gotten to know her lately, she is super nice and has no intention of trying to cause problems.

Also, to add onto everything, I sincerely hope that the thread in the Lorule Lounge here: https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/threads/repentance.68535/#post-1235194 wasn't meant to be a jab at Jamie. Again, the timing seems dubious, and I don't wish to think anyone would turn a personal forum tragedy into a joke, but it seems weird. The word in itself is rather uncommon, the thread came out of no where, it seems just way too fishy. So I guess I'm weary of you Rag and your intentions. I would like to not be, and I'd like the forums to be much more unified, but I just don't know how to ever read you.
Rag and Jamie were extremely close, closer than most in fact. And Repentance was long before her and Rubik's time so I doubt they even knew about his old username.

This accusation is extremely offensive when its directed towards one of the people who were most saddened by his death.
 

ExLight

Reading the Akashic Records
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Jun 23, 2019
Location
Giant Pink Bunny
Why is this thread so active then?
Because I want to voice out opinions since we’re also part of this community. Is this not the place for that?

Honestly it’s pretty annoying you’re not even reading our messages and assuming we’re some kind of collective mind just because we enjoy a certain part of the forum.
 

Rubik

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Why is this thread so active then?
Most of the replies are people saying they don't think alts should be legal, but that it's a valid topic to discuss and that disrespecting that point of view is wrong. If there's any contention, it's because it's being treated like it's not a valid perspective by a small minority of the replies.

I personally don't think alts should be legal because the fact that they aren't is a part of the culture of the forum that seems to be important to a lot of the people here and staff seems to be able to make exceptions in the instances where it's appropriate to do so. I do, personally, think it's a perfectly valid discussion to have and that there are plenty of other communities where having different rules is fine and it shouldn't be treated like a "no brainer" when in reality it's something you might only know works better for ZD because you've been a member on ZD for long enough to understand that aspect of the culture.
 

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