Team Fortress 2: Mann vs. Machine

[Soul]

@Soul I suggested commuter would work for a scout back in day 1.
Scouts are the fastest characters in TF2 so a role like commuter would fit nicely.

Ah, thanks, I seem to have missed that.

 

[Soul]

Still, I'd like to know what you hoped to achieve with this @kokirion. Can you clarify? You don't need to confirm or deny wether Commuter really is your role if you don't want to, but I'd like to hear about your motivations for this play. Did you really think you'd find scum that way?

 

[Frozen Chosen]

To start off, just wanna say I messed up with accusing Johnny. I went with what I had and it blew up in my face.

As for my suspicions on everyone... You're going to have to give me tonight and the morning to think it over.

 

[HeroOfTime]

What does the commuter do?

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

What does the commuter do?

No role has an absolute set purpose from my experience. Traditionally, a commuter is someone who can "leave" town during the night and avoid being nightkilled. The extent of a commuter's ability varies greatly, sometimes being limited to a set number shots, or perhaps in just being on odd/even days. There's honestly no way to tell unless you are one.

It just makes sense given the context of the scene. The mafia was "too slow"; their target had already "left". It doesn't seem to indicate any type of doctor at play.

It also explains how kokirion would know that he was indeed the mafia target. He decided to exercise his role's power, and the nightscene reflected that.

This is, however, just speculation based on a scene and a claim that might not even be true. As I said before, I would understand if kokirion decided not to clarify to risk the mechanics of his role being discovered, and thus putting him at higher risk for death.

 

[Viral Maze]

Viral has been very quick to throw blame around and attempt to get everyone arguing. He has thrown around five different FoS suspicions in the first two days. Either he's inconsistent and doesn't himself know what he believes, or he's scum trying to stir up dispute and confusion to throw the suspicion off of himself. I believe it is the latter.

Your argument is non sequitur. Explain the connection between FoSing someone for doing/saying something I find scummy and me stirring up the town? Then explain to me how what you're doing is more town like than what I'm doing?

I feel like I know what you're up to. Anyway, what do you think about Doc and Vergo?

@kokirion I posted I was suspicious of you yesterday the most, but your softclaim has me believing you. I checked the wiki, and I agree with Nite Owl. It's pretty much the first description of your character. I want to confirm, without the need for using up today's claim, so could you tell me why you softclaimed? I can think of 1 solid reason if you're town and 0 solid reasons if you're mafia. Just want to hear it from you.

 

[Doc]

As for right now, I trust Kokirion's soft claim, as it fits the night scene and I don't see much reason for Mafia to lie about it. From my understanding, Commuter is not a dangerous role like the cop or Doctor, so fake claiming to draw out the real commuter doesn't make much sense to me.

I think that most of us also agree that FroCho is most likely the VT as we now know that there are four.


Also @DekuNut isnt there one vote against Viral (by HoT)???

 

[DekuNut]

Also @DekuNut isnt there one vote against Viral (by HoT)???

There is, but the vote was cast after my vote count.

 

[DekuNut]

VOTE COUNT
Viral Maze(1): HeroOfTime
Not Voting (15): Kokirion, Soul, A Link in Time, Tristan, Viral Maze, Mido, Frozen Chosen, Crus@der77x , Night Owl, Malon, Ver-go-a-go-go, Toxic_Snowman, Zelda15, Doc, Jamie

YET TO MEET POST REQUIREMENT
A Link in Time (2), Mido (2), Frozen Chosen (2), Toxic_Snowman (1), Zelda15, Jamie (1)
Day 2 will end on Wednesday, May 3, 2016 at 7pm PST. 3 posts are required this game day, or else you will be replaced.
With 16 players alive, it takes 9 for majority.

@Zelda15 still has not posted this game day

 

[HeroOfTime]

Your argument is non sequitur. Explain the connection between FoSing someone for doing/saying something I find scummy and me stirring up the town? Then explain to me how what you're doing is more town like than what I'm doing?

I feel like I know what you're up to. Anyway, what do you think about Doc and Vergo?

I thought your activity to be scummy in that you attempted to generate argument and suspicion on 5 different specific targets within two days, often without real evidence. From what I've seen, the others have been relatively consistent in their suspicions, once they are suspicious of someone, they state that one, while what I've seen of you was flip-flopping around to others.

I haven't really gotten much of a read on Doc, other than possible lurking, I really don't know about any suspicious activity.

As for Vergo, he had gone after kokirion rather viciously after day 2 had ended. He has seemed a bit aggressive from what I've seen, though I'm not sure this is enough to call for a lynch at this point. If a lynch was moved against him, I'd join, but I don't want to begin one against him. Sorry, but I've got a gut feeling about you, Viral, and don't like that you attempted to throw blame around so much early in the game. I highly doubt that others will vote against you though, so you probably don't need to worry, one vote is nothing, and I'll likely change mine later

 

[kokirion]

@kokirion I posted I was suspicious of you yesterday the most, but your softclaim has me believing you. I checked the wiki, and I agree with Nite Owl. It's pretty much the first description of your character. I want to confirm, without the need for using up today's claim, so could you tell me why you softclaimed? I can think of 1 solid reason if you're town and 0 solid reasons if you're mafia. Just want to hear it from you.

I did not originally plan to open up on that. But I'll tell you part of the reason.

You nicely analysed some of it. Indeed, there is 0 reason for this soft claim if I'd be mafia. That itself already makes it a helpful move. This soft claim would be absolute suicide if it was a bluff. I can calculate here for everyone why, but I think that's obvious. At the same time. What info did I just provide? Only that I was the target and somehow survived. But of course, the mafia already knows all of this. They targeted me, they saw it failed and they read Deku's briefing about the night. The only thing I did is sharing to the town what both I and the mafia already know. If this move would bring me in any danger, it will not bring me in any more danger than I already am in.
There's nothing to lose there. In addition, with so many people being wary of me, I both knew for sure that this day I would mostly be defending myself, and words and analyses of mine would carry little value. So isn't this already just for that a great move? Instead of the mafia being able to kill their target, they confirmed his innocence. And thanks to them I'm allowed to go back in the offensive.

I have some additional reasons, it's only part of the story. But those are better kept private for now.
I hope this answers your question.



This sharing of everyone's suspicions proved to be highly informative. It's also interesting to see how some people put certain players in the town section whereas others have them reversed. I'll come back to some of those statements later

 

[Viral Maze]

If this move would bring me in any danger, it will not bring me in any more danger than I already am in.
There's nothing to lose there. In addition, with so many people being wary of me, I both knew for sure that this day I would mostly be defending myself, and words and analyses of mine would carry little value. So isn't this already just for that a great move? Instead of the mafia being able to kill their target, they confirmed his innocence. And thanks to them I'm allowed to go back in the offensive.

There it is. Thanks. I spent half a day earlier debating what other roles there could be, but the simplest explanation is usually the best.

I thought your activity to be scummy in that you attempted to generate argument and suspicion on 5 different specific targets within two days, often without real evidence. From what I've seen, the others have been relatively consistent in their suspicions, once they are suspicious of someone, they state that one, while what I've seen of you was flip-flopping around to others.

You're playing with fire, but that's fine, especially if you don't fully understand the meaning of FoS. One can flip flop on votes, but not necessarily on FoSes as its just a tool to point out something suspicious. You're still on my list, so I will continue to question you. Read some of my older games pre 2014. I don't think I played any in 2014 or 2015 (though I moderated during that time frame). You'll see I play the same way. I don't give too many reasons why I do things. I'd rather not let my suspicions out too much and give the players time to change and realign their attitudes and playstyles to seem less scummy. I play my cards close to my chest.

@Mido what do you think of Hero of Time? You slipped by in Revival, so I'd like to get a feel for you again, brother.

Also: @Zelda15 to post more.

 

[Zelda18]

Sorry, really busy, my classes are ending next week, so teacher took this opportunity to dump tons of stuff on us.

 

[Mellow Ezlo]

Alright, I'll start this off by addressing some suspicions against me.

Tristan: Tristan was the second person to ask Malon to provide concrete evidence that Storm was fake claiming. Since he played with Malon last game, Tristan should have known Malon was most likely going to respond with a role claim. It would have been smarter for Tristan to specify how Malon knew without giving away his role. I'm also suspicious of Tristan for saying that he thinks a vig kill makes kokirion look suspicious when kokirion's soft claim hints at a completely different role, and the night scene makes it pretty clear that it was the mafia who targeted kokirion.

I'm very interested with this, specifically in its relation to kokirion's claim.

Kokirion is implying he knows beyond a doubt that he was the target last night - this indicates to me that he could tell from the nightscene, where specifically the killer was too late or not on time. He isn't going into specifics, but I would think the wording of the nightscene is critical. I wouldn't be surprised if kokirion is something like a commuter, and decided to get the hell out of dodge to avoid a bullet. The pieces seem to line up well.

When I think of a doctor saving someone, I think more of an aid role, like someone heals another person after the attack. The fact that we're even given these methodologies of death during the night points to perhaps there being a clear differentiation between a doctor heal and some other force.

I also think that pointing out that kokirion looks worse due to Pendio's death doesn't make a terrible amount of sense. It seems rather obvious that the mafia kill wasn't on Pendio; and even if it was, it seems like far too obvious of a move that would bring up the classic "framing" argument given the amount of discussion between the two. These two factors together make me wary of Tristan.

I explained a long time ago why I asked Malon to elaborate on his comment regarding Storm's fakeclaim, but I can do so again. Mostly, it was because I wasn't happy that he had said anything at all. If I were Malon, I would've left my counterclaim to a later day when we had no leads. Counterclaiming during Day 1 wasn't the smartest thing to do. I thought the damage had already been done, so I told Malon he might as well just go ahead and say it since he had already brought it up in the first place. If I were mafia, there would be no need to pressure Malon into claiming since it was already painfully obvious what he was referring to. If anything, if I were mafia, I would've let it slip by and hope nobody on the town side noticed it to give us an easy kill.

Also, I never stated that I thought Kokirion was killed by the vig. In fact, I specifically stated before my post about Koko that Pendio was killed by the vig and the mafia kill was blocked somehow. I immediately thought doctor protection because the roleblockers were dead, I didn't think of the possibility of there being a commuter. And when I said Koko looked worse, it was more about the somewhat aggressive back-and-forth that him and Pendio had had the previous day and how Pendio flipped town. I was wary of him at the start of the day for other reasons, but I don't want to explain because I'd have to go into my role to do so. This was all, of course, before his claim, which changed everything. I actually haven't said anything about him since he claimed, which seems genuine and I'm willing to believe it. I see no reason not to.

---

Anyway, as for my list, here it is:

Malon - Malon is town, there's no doubt about it. He has no reason to lie about his role.

Kokirion - As I said above, Koko's claim seems legit. He has no reason to lie about it so I don't have any reason not to believe it.

Frozen Chosen - Given that the two dead VTs are different characters, FroCho is as good as confirmed.

Aside from those three, there's nobody else who I think is practically guaranteed to be town. I trust Viral, but he always leans town even when he's not so I can't say much on him.

I'd like to hear more from Zelda15, who has practically posted nothing of substance this entire game. I understand she's busy, but she should be able to find a few minutes to drop in and say what she thinks.

Doc has been relatively inactive this game too, which makes him difficult to read. He hasn't given me any great reason to trust him, nor not to, so I'm neutral.

Vergo was going after Koko rather aggressively. I was wary of him too yesterday though, so it's understandable. Vergo believes Koko's claim so he's left him alone for now, but I'll remain wary.

HeroOfTime is an interesting case. I can't say much about him regarding asking Malon to elaborate his claim because I did the same thing. But still, something seems off about his posts. His suspicions against Viral hold little merits, but this is his first game. It's always harder to read newbies because a lot of the scummy things they do are just newbie mistakes.

Crus@der and Jamie just replaced people and as such are difficult to read. Crus especially replaced someone who hadn't posted at all, while Dan didn't contribute at all. I'll let them talk a bit more before I make any judgment on them.

Everybody else I'm neutral on. There's nobody right now that I'm overly suspicious of at this point, but I will be keeping my eye on the people I listed above.

 

[Jamie]

k friends just catching up rq