Here is ALIT's first post mentioning something substantial on Frozen. I'm going to put the times he mentioned Johnny too, because how closely related ALIT made them. At this point of time, obviously, there's no pressure whatsoever on ALIT.
Okay, so Frozen Chosen was the first one to ask peoples’ opinions about how to plan attack strategies during the game. It’s not necessarily alignment indicative, but it’s an important post because it’s generated the most discussion of all the posts in the game thus far. At the end of the post, Frozen Chosen voices his support for wanting every player to damage a different player.
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#17 makes me uncomfortable. I don’t like how Johnny is hedging his bets instead of firmly committing to a position on the issue. It’s the way start of the game, so it seems strange to see someone playing it so safe early on.
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I’m not ruling out the possibility of them being scum just yet, but I feel pretty good about Frozen Chosen, Kokirion, and Doc for generating so much discussion and bringing their own viewpoints to the table, which is something scum may be afraid to do, especially if someone disagrees with them.
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At this point, Frozen Chosen reverses his position on attacking, and says he’s in favor of attacking a few people during Day 1. I still feel good about his start to the game, but I can’t help but feel paranoid from his change of heart. I’m suspicious of him in the other game that’s going on right now as well, so it might be something about his playstyle that doesn’t sit well with me. I don’t want to tunnel him so early, but I’m wary of him at the back of my mind.
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From this post we can say that Johnny isn't sitting too well with ALIT. That's all good and dandy. Frozen he feels good about but he's keeping a bit of a watch on him. It's important to note that ALIT doesn't put much genuine suspicion on Frozen. He mostly fills that part in with "but I'm always suspicious of him so it could just be nothing". A safe move if both of them are scum. If Frozen flips, he can point out he was suspicious of him. But while Frozen's under attack ALIT can point out that the suspicion isn't much.
Alright. You have my trust, Libk. I admit that I've been after you the past few games, regardless of alignment, so I have some peace of mind about you now.
Also, this is pure conjecture, but I still feel good about Doc, and I feel better about Frozen Chosen, since they were the other two people to first suggest alternate methods to attacking.
Here, ALIT expresses that he feels best about Frozen. I believe it can be safely assumed that this is out of the whole town. Now obviously an experienced Mafia player wouldn't want to say they think their scum bud is most town-like. You can take this statement both ways. The way ALIT shifts any possible focus slightly off of Frozen to counter his statement before. But also him even mentioning Frozen with such a positive light indicating Frozen may not be associated with him.
I included the first part of the quote because here, again, ALIT brings up that his past games may have caused him to have a more biased view on a few people. I feel like by him saying this, he's implying for people to take all of his suspicions with a grain of salt. It also gives him a good cushion to fall back to if someone agrees with his suspicions on a scum bud.
Now, after this part, ALIT slips up and is under suspicion. It's important to note his stance changes on players at this point.
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Wait a minute. Why didnt ALIT know that Originals are the town for this game
I thought the same thing too. And people are pointing out how similar it was to Sooshi in TF2. But, in the end, I pushed for Johnny's lynch and he really was VT.
That being said, couldn't their be an "original VT" from smash?
I haven't player TF2 so sorry if I misinterpreted this post but from what I gathered, you're saying that though you noticed the slip up, it's possible that ALIT could simply have been VT and made this slip up?
Either way this whole post is really just one big blob of speculation, but if my interpretation of your post is right, you seem to be providing a pretty logical excuse as to why ALIT might have slipped. Fair enough. Others did that too. But something to keep in mind.
Guys, if the day were to end tonight, would you rather us knockout ALIT or an inactive as a policy knockout? Or no one at all?
Hmmm... I think going with slip ups and mistakes is the right way to go. I mean sure, people are bound to make mistakes. ALIT may have just made a mistake, but we probably can't let it slide unless a bigger lead is given. Inactive lynches could work but maybe we should just attack and not kill, similar to a pressure vote.
I'm not a fan of no lynches unless we are reaching lylo. But that's my opinion.
I think attacking ALIT is for the best.
Attack: A Link In Time
Now this is the big giant thing. Frozen was the first to vote for ALIT. When I first saw this I was surprised. There were still over 2 days to go for the end of the day. But I thought maybe his opinion on waiting was different.
So is he town going for a good lynch or scum washing his hands off? I didn't confirm him as townie just because he was the first to vote ALIT. I've seen in many cases in the scum QT, when a scum gets caught in their net, they encourage their fellow members to go for them. In Avengers, when Frozen was caught in a net, Viral, Frozen's scumbud, voted for him immediately without a second thought. Of course, Frozen could have taken a page off of Viral's book.
It's also note worthy that at the time of his vote, both I and Sadia expressed willingness to vote for ALIT. So it was pretty obvious that at one point there was going to be a bandwagon on ALIT. And since people again and again say the person at the beginning of a scum wagon is most likely to be town and the person at the end of a scum wagon is most likely to be Mafia, it would be a great opportunity for scum to jump first on a wagon that they can smell happening from miles away.
Also noteworthy that Frozen had not been convinced of ALIT's guilt before this, and in fact offered a reason as to why he might be innocent. And it didn't work.
Guys, if the day were to end tonight, would you rather us knockout ALIT or an inactive as a policy knockout? Or no one at all?
Hmmm... I think going with slip ups and mistakes is the right way to go. I mean sure, people are bound to make mistakes. ALIT may have just made a mistake, but we probably can't let it slide unless a bigger lead is given. Inactive lynches could work but maybe we should just attack and not kill, similar to a pressure vote.
I'm not a fan of no lynches unless we are reaching lylo. But that's my opinion.
I think attacking ALIT is for the best.
Attack: A Link In Time
I can respect that reasoning. My play in 2016 admittedly hasn't been optimal. Quite a few people thought I was scum in Love Letter Mafia when I switched my vote to Doc at the last second. Anyhow, I'm still not the biggest fan of policy lynching inactives, but after seeing what happened with Doc in Love Letter, I have my doubts about keeping that position.
I mean, the likelihood that we would hit scum by lynching inactives this game is low compared to love letter.
I don't have anything to comment on this. But it's another interaction so you guys can make your own conclusions from it.
There hasn't been much on Day 2 aside from the suspicions on me, so most of my feelings stem from Day 1. Johnny Sooshi stood out to me then as well as Frozen Chosen, but I'm more paranoid about the way they've been playing the game than genuinely suspicious. I don't like how Johnny was hedging his bets and FroCho quickly reversed his position on the attacking issue.
Honestly, I'm having a lot of cognitive dissonance about Frozen Chosen. It certainly doesn't help that I've been suspicious of him the last few games I've played. I like that he was willing to start discussion on Day 1 and present some unique viewpoints, but he's been more of a follower on Day 2. Like I said before, I like that FroCho, Doc, and kokirion presented their own viewpoints for how to attack, but Doc has seemed more consistent in his stance than Frozen Chosen.
FroCho had changed his stance much before ALIT expressed his opinion that he thinks FroCho is likely to be town. So it isn't something new that was brought up. And there had literally been only two pages of day 2. So how can ALIT conclude Frozen is playing follower this game day? This new opinion which only appeared after ALIT was pressured seems to be directly opposite from ALIT's opinion from before he was pressured. He seems to be singling out FroCho.
Now this interaction right here has me confused. For one, he's still saying "oh but my suspicions could be invalid so nevermind but this shows im totally not associated with him" but at the same time, I can see a Mafia doing this to a town, too. FroCho was the first to vote ALIT so obviously ALIT would focus on FroCho more under this new pressure.
But the sudden switch really doesn't sit well with me. This post has such a huge WIFOM associated with it, it's kinda useless to try to unravel. But we can't ignore that ALIT may be trying to put distance from him and Frozen, the same as Frozen did with his vote against ALIT. Is Frozen the Godfather?
Are you that certain that ALiT is scum to attack him(her? I don't know yall's damn genders
) so soon? There is a lot of time left in the day.
Why not? Nothing else was getting done before that. I thought the mistake was valid to point out. Besides no one else is attacking.
Not a good reason in my opinion. There was so much more time to wait for. But I can see his reasoning so I won't push him for this. Just another thing to note in case if Frozen's scum. Attacking ALIT first would be great for him.
But this game doesn't work like that. You can't recall an attack. You have to be confident in your suspicions to attack. Are you certain ALIT is scum?
I never said the game worked like that. I never said, "I'll just take back my attack if it ALIT seems to be town." Not knowing about the term original seemed to me a valid reason to attack. Are we only supposed to attack if we are certain someone is scum? Might as well do nothing but speculate, then.
This again seems like a good defense. I think Frozen defended himself well here. But again we can't ignore it's really weird he attacked ALIT so quickly. I tried to go back to see if Frozen gave his opinion on a quick KO earlier or not, but he didn't say anything along those lines so there's nothing to compare his actions with.
It seems a lot have shifted their focus to Eduarda. The fact that she's taken a town leader type role doesn't bother me. She's done it in previous games as town. However, if she is scum, she fooled me. Eduarda was the first one to point out the ALIT slip up and I didn't notice it until her post. From there I formed my own opinions. If ALIT were to flip scum, I think we could definitely say Eduarda is town. If ALIT were to flip town, Eduarda would be a good next day target. Oh, and it's kinda hard to focus in on someone when they haven't posted in awhile...
@Heroine of Time
Aside from that possibility, I don't know where suspicions on Eduarda are coming from. Maybe I'm missing something.
This is a good post. To me, it's working in Frozen's favour. If he's scum, pointing out that his scum bud's death would confirm me may not be too helpful to Mafia. He could have also shown suspicion towards me but he chose not to. I guess it's also worthy to note that he had a bit of heat on him himself at this point with two people questioning his attack. So as Mafia, he would probably have tried to do whatever seemed the most town. Gummy and him were the only ones arguing to not knock me out. Going against the flow might not have been seen as very town. But I know he's a good player as scum so I'm still taking this with a grain of salt.
RIGHT, now that i've TLDR'd JC i think the choice of target is honestly stupid yes ALIT made a Mistake but hell i didn't look at the last game of this type just so i could enjoy playing this without worrying about prior motives and the ilk. It could've been an honest mistake and i'm inclined currently CURRENTLY to believe it. (though the fact it's in green should've told you.....)
But mistakes are important to catch. While everyone makes mistakes, we can't let every single slip up go unnoticed, especially if it has to do with common town information.
How confident are you that ALIT is scum? Being the first attack makes me believe you are confident, though your reasoning is a little lacking imo. I'm just trying to understand how certain you are about him.
I'm not 100%. I don't think anybody can be unless your night actions say something. I'm just going of my own intuition and scum hunting. He didn't know about the term original. Seems like a good reason to me.
Why do you think ALIT is not scum? Also, why are you so hesitant to attack? We can't get anything done just sitting around, right? It's not like I'm going after someone randomly. I believe that ALIT could be scum because of that mistake.
This is another good post which works in Frozen's favour. He sticks to his initial reasoning. Town trying to convince everyone to vote for ALIT, or scum trying to defend his position more to get people off his case? Unsure.
Now here, ALIT is about to die. He starts giving that last big push to try to survive. This huge thing is just a mess but I'll throw the posts together and see if there's anything at all to conclude from them.
Did you find what exactly you found suspicious about Frozen Chosen?
Honestly, I'm still not feeling Johnny and Frozen Chosen. Maybe I'm being too paranoid about this, but they were my next two suspects for attack after Regal.
Attack: RegalBryant
The suspicion on Eduarda doesn't read as genuine from him, and he seems content with following the most popular bandwagon without offering much insight of his own. He says he's most suspicious of Eduarda, but then attacks me without any real reason to his position other than vaguely stating that other people convinced him.
I wanted to reiterate my own suspicions about Johnny and Frozen, and I thought it was a good post to quote because you were directly responding to one of them.
I didn't want to get into this territory. But we already pretty much know one person's alignment out of the three ALIT brought up (Johnny). He brought up Frozen, Johnny, and Bryant. I want to say that within these 3 people, one of them is scum and 2 are town. Cushioning one scum within two town would be a good idea. It might clear off that scum since they have been thrown in a group with 2 town. And out of the three, I think Johnny and Byrant were brought under the most fire. It would be good to bring up town members who are most likely to get lynched earlier than the scum so others can look back at this group and assume everyone here is town.
". Once again, something I've done several times in the past as scum, and I've seen many others do it too. It's one thing to say that you understand the suspicion, but when that's the basis for your entire defense is when it really becomes sketchy.