Mafia 4: Majora's Mask

[Keyshe]

Wait... Master Kokiri 9 didn't give a detail explanation of his vote and suspicions of Bay... that's waaay out of character for him... he is one of the players who always analyze before he votes...

... something is up with this business of Bay and Axle... don't be so quick to judge...
I need to re-look at things,... I think I spotted something off one of Axle's posts and I need to reformulate some of my thoughts. Right now it's all jumbled and confused. If The Green gets in here can someone point him to my post? I've been waiting days for him to get back to me on it...

 

[Pocket Asian]

Why are you protecting Kybyrian so much? Isn't that a job better left to Kybyrian, himself?

I mean, he played a real shady day one, and could easily be mafia. And yet you are protecting him. Atleast I protected obvious townies.

I just think it's a bit illogical that one of their reasons for voting for Kybyrian is that one post about the emoticon when I also had one that just mocked it saying nothing at all really with another emoticon in it. I'd expect at least some suspicion from them if they're going to base some of their accusations on Kybyrian because of one small pointless post.

 

[Master Kokiri 9]

Wait... Master Kokiri 9 didn't give a detail explanation of his vote and suspicions of Bay... that's waaay out of character for him... he is one of the players who always analyze before he votes...

I analyzed, and I would've posted said analysis if Axle hadn't beat me to the punch. And I think Illmatic didn't have his facts quite as straight as they should've been when he mentioned me.

I said that Axle had already stated all the points I would've made, so I didn't bother since I'd just be wasting my time. I did make a point against Jo, which was admittedly tossed aside.

And you know, now that I think about it, this sort of behavior doesn't seem all that out of character for Jo. I'm gonna go back and investigate this whole Axle vs. Jo thing. You can expect me to get to it sometime tonight or sometime tomorrow after 3:00.

 

[Kybyrian]

I mean, he played a real shady day one, and could easily be mafia. And yet you are protecting him. Atleast I protected obvious townies.

Hold up hold up.

I played shady on day one? I played ridiculously on day one. If I would have kept up that behavior until this day I'd have 10 votes on me right now with no hesitation. I don't see how acting stupid classifies as shady. When I first started playing into this round, I didn't really care about the game. Like I said, I never wanted to join in the first place. The persistence of people is the death of me, however. I picked up partway through day one because I had nothing to do... life suddenly got a whole lot more boring and everything slowed down.

My point is, how was I acting suspicious on day one? If anything that behavior would have gotten me lynched about as fast as Cucco Power.

 

[DeletedUser9]

I especially love Jo calling Ky shady despite her similar and far more disruptive behavior...

I don't have the time to really get into this thread today, I'll try to read up on what I missed tomorrow, but I'd like to go back to this post where I ask The Green a question. I'm going to assume he missed it, I would like you to get back to me on it now Green.

Anyone else find it suspicious that Green's ignored this?

Can't be bothered to really. Because I'd make my point, you'd dismiss them, and then continue to accuse me for making pointless accusations at you. And that's just not a circle I want to fall into... It would quickly lead to my death without any support against you being raised in the process. Your behavior alone should be a sign of whether you're mafia or not. And your behavior suggests to me that you are in fact, mafia.

You still can't back up any kind of accusation against me without... well... BACKING IT UP. I've layed basic reasoning, and advanced explanations for every single thing I've done. Now I could still be lying, but don't you tell an obvious falsity and say you aren't just as capable of misleading the Town as I am.

Furthermore, you claim that if you make a post I'd dismiss your points, but you're not only ignoring me, you're ignoring all points raised against you, or even regular questions you're asked that aren't even accusations.

I'm not going to waste my time on that this game... Either you believe me or you don't. Simple as that.

Seems like Jo's changing her mind again. She keeps flipping between taking this seriously, asking to die, and then apparently not caring despite her constant pushing for me? It also seems like she's trying to garner sympathy with this post...

Oh, I get it. Look, I'm not actually voting for you. I just wanted to see how'd you respond because you were under fire from the other members.

So... for the lulz? You're not really helping yourself with the suspicions on you already...

Jo is being somewhat confusing. I'm not sure what to think, and I don't think it's possible to be sure.

The problem with Jo is that yes, she's being incredibly confusing, and she refuses to properly address anything said to her, instead she dodges it and never answers the question. How can we make any proper assessment of someone being that chaotic? Not only are they distracting, but they're a wildcard we can't analyze.

Now, I believe CP showed many of the same signs of being a likely townie/new player that Linksbro had also shown. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) Yet in the midst of this, Jo did not leap to the rescue of CP like she lept to the defense of Linksbro.

This is really interesting. I hadn't noticed this. Reminds me of an accusation I made in Kokiri Mafia when I played it on LoZ.com. I basically got someone lynched who did similar things. I was wrong, but it was still an incredibly huge scumtell so IMO their fault.

Okay... Thsi day is just too confusing. The most expermented players throw accusations at each other, and the less just don't post. There are way to many inactive people for this to work out.

Probably because of this whole "clash of the titans" thing going on right now. Since Jo's acted as insane as Linksbro, I'm try to get rid of her so we can continue a normal discussion and find some Mafia. Although she could easily be Mafia herself at this rate.

Before you go I would like to explain one thing to you. The reason I responded differently towards CP and Linksbro. While all the signs were there that Axle was in control, it wasn't until the exact same people who jumped on board the CP train jumped on the Linksbro train, that I realized what was going on. I saw everyone follow Axle on over, and that gave him an abnormal control of the game. ALSO HAZEL and CP are the same 'person' when it comes to mafia. Roles didnt change when Hazel 'replaced' CP, I find it funny now that where CP was actually thought of as being scum, now Hazel is innocent. That just made no sense, and that heightened my awareness to the events going on around me. I'm not one to act extremely heroic, but I would have gladly offered myself up instead of Linksbro to get some answers.

Realize though that since the start of the game I have been advocating that Townies think for themselves. I have posts before I ever rallied against Linksbro that back this up. Furthermore, would I be stupid enough as a Mafia to rally people that openly? Wasn't I virtually invisible during Group Mafia on LoZ? Then there's the fact that you've tried to rally people against me right after saying that makes me scummy. I can understand it being considered bad that I rallied people (and in fact I agree that the reaction of everyone automatically listening to me is bad), but not as an instant scumtell.

The reason I backed off on Hazel was because Cucco Power was worse than Linksbro, meaning his behavior was so nuts I couldn't tell what role he was at all. With the saner Hazel, I was able to relax and pay attention to her actions. I'm still watching her like a hawk though.

Axle seems to have been accusing people and trying to get people to really think the way he does, which is understandable and completely fine. Its just the way he does it seems a little hurtful and attacking. His points are very logical and very convincing, but I've yet to decide if he's scum or not.

This is a brutal game, so accusations and challenging the actual behavior and wording of another player are the basis of it. Saying a player is "crazy" is probably the worst I've done (that I can think of), and it's still valid if their posts make no sense.

One thing I do know, is that I don't trust either of them. They're both good players, but it's not clear which side they are on.

As others have said, I don't like that Axle seems to have power over townies. Kybyrian and MK9 didn't bother giving an explanation for their BSR vote and pretty much just said "I agree with Axle".
We have to think on our own when deciding who to vote for, instead of just going along with the group.

Good, you shouldn't trust ANY player in this game, ESPECIALLY the good players. Trust is going to get you killed. Cooperation however is crucial.

Just because someone says they agree with me doesn't mean they aren't thinking for themselves. Kybyrian and Master Kokiri 9 are two of our most skilled players. I guarantee you they put thought into their votes. But why would you repeat what someone else said?

 

[Baysiderulez]

I especially love Jo calling Ky shady despite her similar and far more disruptive behavior...

Wow, you really are blind. None of my behavior has been disruptive whatsoever. I think you managed not to read any of your sister's posts either. Otherwise you would see their was a method for the madness. Its not that difficult to figure out that I am not scum. And its not that difficult to figure out my place in this game. I handed it to you on a sliver platter, if you close your eyes to it, I can't force you to take it.

 

[SuperSilly]

I'm not confirming or denying the jester role

What? Why not?

Before you go I would like to explain one thing to you. The reason I responded differently towards CP and Linksbro. While all the signs were there that Axle was in control, it wasn't until the exact same people who jumped on board the CP train jumped on the Linksbro train, that I realized what was going on. I saw everyone follow Axle on over, and that gave him an abnormal control of the game. ALSO HAZEL and CP are the same 'person' when it comes to mafia. Roles didnt change when Hazel 'replaced' CP, I find it funny now that where CP was actually thought of as being scum, now Hazel is innocent. That just made no sense, and that heightened my awareness to the events going on around me. I'm not one to act extremely heroic, but I would have gladly offered myself up instead of Linksbro to get some answers.

Trust your instincts. You are on the right path, thats all I can say, you are right to be suspicious of me, but you shouldn't fear me.

Don't worry, I'm aware that Hazel and CP are the same. I think I understand why they dropped their votes for CP though. Most of the votes against CP seems to be because he was somewhat distracting. Also, that is a rather strange explanation as to why you didn't defend CP. Not going to discard it; but as with everything else written in this thread I'm going to take it with a grain of salt. My FoS remains till I've got more time to think.

I second this 100%. I'm not sure at all about Axle or BSR. Both of their playstyles are unique and I don't know what to make of it. Both of their arguments for voting for each other aren't that strong either. One thing I do know, is that I don't trust either of them. They're both good players, but it's not clear which side they are on.
As others have said, I don't like that Axle seems to have power over townies. Kybyrian and MK9 didn't bother giving an explanation for their BSR vote and pretty much just said "I agree with Axle".
We have to think on our own when deciding who to vote for, instead of just going along with the group.

I don't think that finding what someone else said as good enough logic to vote counts as not thinking for yourself. I do agree that you should take things with a grain of salt though.

There's one thing that proves BSR's innocence though, that we seem to have overlooked:

Let's look at how Zelda's Child (who was mafia) voted then unvoted for her:

She put in the last vote for linksbro to get him lynched, but even then she states that she's very suspicious of BSR, setting up a future vote for her.
Of course it's possible that it's mafia voting for mafia to cause confusion, but Zelda's Child originally voted for BSR right after Pocket Asian voted for her, and was trying to create a bandwagon of more votes for BSR. It seems the mafia is targeting Baysiderulez, so IMO she's innocent

Could have been the beginnings of an Atsuma. Also, it doesn't rule her out as SK or possibly a jester. (Not that a jester can kill anyone anyway...)

I'm not even sure about what I'm doing


Fair enough. I'm being stupid this Day period

Not so sure acting stupid is a good idea... Still seems strange to me. My IGMEOY remains.

The problem with Jo is that yes, she's being incredibly confusing, and she refuses to properly address anything said to her, instead she dodges it and never answers the question. How can we make any proper assessment of someone being that chaotic? Not only are they distracting, but they're a wildcard we can't analyze.

I doubt that you can't analyze a wildcard. (Though it may be more difficult. Perhaps not as difficult as someone who never posts though.) It can become a distraction, and that's sort of what it has developed into. But, even as Linksbro distracted people, plenty of info was revealed. It's hard to stop at least some people from revealing themselves. Zelda_Child's posts were suspicious whilst the Linksbro thing went on.

I suppose the downside is that we didn't catch those posts till after the fact. That is the danger of distraction. But part of the distraction comes from being distracted trying to get rid of distractions. Just thought I'd say that...

 

[DeletedUser9]

Wow, you really are blind. None of my behavior has been disruptive whatsoever. I think you managed not to read any of your sister's posts either. Otherwise you would see their was a method for the madness. Its not that difficult to figure out that I am not scum. And its not that difficult to figure out my place in this game. I handed it to you on a sliver platter, if you close your eyes to it, I can't force you to take it.

Yes, it actually has. The entire first day was pretty much about nothing but Cucco Power and Linksbro. This is exact proof of how much of a distraction they were. The only element that was not about them was about you vs. me. And that has carried over to this day and taken up it in its entirety so far.

I honestly don't care if you've laden your posts with code revealing your role. Why don't you play this game like everyone else? Secret tells about your role are pointless, because as you've said yourself if a Mafia sees them it's bad for you. Well if it's bad for you, then why are you letting me know directly that they exist when you're so sure I'm Mafia? Does this have to do with you wanting to die, or more that you don't really think I'm Mafia? Somewhere in here, you're contradicting yourself.

I doubt that you can't analyze a wildcard. (Though it may be more difficult. Perhaps not as difficult as someone who never posts though.) It can become a distraction, and that's sort of what it has developed into. But, even as Linksbro distracted people, plenty of info was revealed. It's hard to stop at least some people from revealing themselves. Zelda_Child's posts were suspicious whilst the Linksbro thing went on.

I suppose the downside is that we didn't catch those posts till after the fact. That is the danger of distraction. But part of the distraction comes from being distracted trying to get rid of distractions. Just thought I'd say that...

You're right that it's not impossible, but it depends on just how much chaos is in the actions of that person. I am rarely able to analyze these sorts, and when I've tried I'm often wrong. Can you figure Jo out? Could you figure out Linksbro before he was killed? Could you figure out Cucco Power?

Yeah, that's a fair point. Still, I don't feel like any players have presented distractions aside from Cucco Power, Linksbro, Kybyrian, and Bayside. CP and Linksbro are no longer issues. Kybyrian decided to play seriously. Bayside won't stop no matter what, and she's been doing this from day one.

Worse is the fact that she's one of our skilled players, meaning her distraction factor is COLOSSAL. She can control people and influence people, something she says herself is bad.

 

[Meego]

I especially love Jo calling Ky shady despite her similar and far more disruptive behavior...

I don't find this to be true, I don't see anything out of character about Jo's posts...

FoS: Axle the Beast

 

[DeletedUser9]

I don't find this to be true, I don't see anything out of character about Jo's posts...

FoS: Axle the Beast

What, NOW? The entire thread I've been saying this... -.-

I never really got to play Mafia with Jo here on ZD, so I realize some people may be right when they say she's not being out of character (I'm really not sure), but the post you quoted Meego never stated that she was out of character. I said her behavior was disruptive. And it is. If it's in-character for her, fine, but it's still disruptive. Not only is it becoming more and more difficult to discern her role, but she's derailed the entirety of Day 2 so far. She's admitted to intentionally ignoring posts and refusing to contribute meaningfully. And that's just what she's admitted; there's plenty else to talk about when it comes to her strange behavior. Are you going to read all my posts about her or should I explain again?

 

[Keyshe]

Bay... how can you read this and come to the conclusion that he played IRL mafia? Unless you have been talking to Link and getting your information else where...

Nice try accusing me of cheating.

Now... your point about the 90% to 50% only make sense if you ignore all the points I've been saying. As I said, I get that you don't agree with the the concept of a dangerous townie, you can't ignoring that point all together. It's like you are pretending I haven't said anything about it.

This would have been the first of such standard set.

If you feel that taking out Link is sooo bad, then why do you keep going on and on about that we should kill you when you've claimed to be townie? Contradiction much?

If you stopped saying I was patronizing you, and actually examined WHAT I was saying, Rather then passing it off as SPAM I think you would have a rather CLEAR indication of who I am. Now if you are mafia, then that's not good for me. If you are a town, it might give you some answers. I didn't feel inclined to be so BLUNT about it, but it seems like you aren't into in depth analysis, but rather only what can be seen on the surface. So now that I've given myself away... perhaps we can move forward. Either way I might as well be dead, because I've sealed my fate with this post. I think you are foolish for not making the connections yourself, I expected better of you and your brother, both.

If you've talk to Link either as a friend or in the shoutbox, know more in depth of someone and sharing it, that's not cheating. All the time people here in the game are talking about behavior and facts of others from early games and on the forums and using that, that isn't cheating either, clearly.

What standard was being set Bay? You were ignoring that I even said that Link was/seen as a dangerous townie. I and others pointed out again and again, but you responded with this and the like--

Someone who is 90% town gets votes...but someone with only a 50% chance of being mafia has no chance? that really doesnt make any sense logically.

You can disagree with someones reasoning with out ignoring their point Bay. That is all I was saying. What standard set was being set again?!

I will take a closer look at Axle (I trust you both about the same right now). But before you and I go into how dense I am and what I'm totally not seeing in your posts, can you please, please answer my question?

oh really now? The double standard has been set. Funny how you criticize me for doing the same thing, then defend yourself, and didn't you criticize Linksbro for criticizing Cucco Power then doing the same thing HIMSELF?

IGMEOY: Keyshe

I think you just slipped up.

What double standard? I said it is my mistake. Exactly what did I criticize you on in relation to this? Um no I don't think I criticize Linkbro on something like this... what are you talking about, please be a little more specific. I don't quite follow...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hold up hold up.

I played shady on day one? I played ridiculously on day one. If I would have kept up that behavior until this day I'd have 10 votes on me right now with no hesitation. I don't see how acting stupid classifies as shady. When I first started playing into this round, I didn't really care about the game. Like I said, I never wanted to join in the first place. The persistence of people is the death of me, however. I picked up partway through day one because I had nothing to do... life suddenly got a whole lot more boring and everything slowed down.

My point is, how was I acting suspicious on day one? If anything that behavior would have gotten me lynched about as fast as Cucco Power.

Kybyrian... playing ridiculously, not caring about the game... IS shady by most people's standards... As I have brought up before,... and Axles in fact...

I especially love Jo calling Ky shady despite her similar and far more disruptive behavior...

Looking at this... very weird indeed. Regardless of how Bay has been acting, Ky was still shady. Axle knows this...

Why is he putting our attention only on Bay? Same thing back with Link and Cucco, who he thought were townies (a danger, but townies none the less.) Why not look for mafia too? Why put all his, and our attentions only on one target, one that is very likely town? Axle... how much do you suspect Jo to be a mafioso, or is she most likely another disruptive townie? If so can we spend some more time looking for the real threats? From my first game. When I had the vigilante role looking for secondary mafia choices was very important, wasn't it the same for you MK9 as the killer? In mafia 2, that vigilante had a hard time too. If the chance we have that role, shouldn't we try to help make the best of it?

 

[Hazel]

Look here. This whole war between Jo and Axle just has to stop. Why:
-It has been a thousand times more distracting than Linksbro.
-You never seem to move on, you just seem to make different, maybe slightly altered versions of the same post. (Well, in Jo's case, of two or three differnet posts.
-It takes up pages and pages
-No suspicions have been made, no Mafia has been caught.

Another thing that I believe is that either Axle or Bay is Mafia, and that is why they are so desperatedly trying to lynch each other. So if this is the case, we should try to find which one is Mafia and lynch that one. That way, we get rid of a Mafia, and we get rid of the war.

But, needless to say, I am for now equally suspicious of both.
FoS: Axle and Jo

 

[Keyshe]

It's... possible that both are townie Hazel, I remember once before that Axle said to me that mafia don't go head to head like this, too suspicious. I remember something like this happened in Mafia 2...

 

[Viral Maze]

Watch Your 6 has replaced Turo. All votes that were on Turo are now off.
---
Tally:

Baysiderulez: 3 (Axle the Beast, Master Kokiri 9, Pocket Asian)
Axle the Beast: 1 (Baysiderulez)
Kybyrian: 1 (Ninten*)

No votes cast: [Kazumi], Illmatic, SuperSilly, Zack125, Green Goron, Hazel, Kybyrian, Link to Present, TheGreen, Hero of Music, Epwna, Sasuke Uchiha, DracoMajora, Keyshe, Watch Your 6, Meego7

With 21 alive, it takes 11 votes to lynch.

 

[Master Kokiri 9]

When I had the vigilante role looking for secondary mafia choices was very important, wasn't it the same for you MK9 as the killer? In mafia 2, that vigilante had a hard time too. If the chance we have that role, shouldn't we try to help make the best of it?

Firstly, I'm dead certain we've got a Vig. Secondly, yes, it was the same for me too as the SK in Mafia #1.

Also, my analysis's are coming. I haven't abandoned them.

By the way, Unvote: Baysiderulez

I'll save the vote for when I nail some scummies!