Game Thread Inception Mafia

[Deleted member 14134]

I'm becoming increasing suspicious of Ryuken. His reasoning for voting Yiga felt weak, like he was just looking for an opportunity to jump on a wagon. he was quick to change from voting for a no lynch to voting for Rubik when funnier did, his reasoning for finding me scummy felt like it was reaching (if someone disagrees with me I'll discuss that with you), and now he has once again quickly jumped on another wagon once I voted for Ayano. I feel like he might be trying to get on early and hope to fly under the radar due to it. Also his reasoning of thinking the entire scum team decided to lay low for day one is really weak. Also saying Storma was relieved to leave due to what I saw as a semi sarcastic "thnx" post feels like reaching. Shouldn't be using a dead persons goodbye post as reasoning anyways. I know ryu has expressed that he has trouble reading tone online though so maybe it's just that. A lot of my read on him depending on how Yiga flipped if he got lynched. Since he didn't though, I'm going to read back at break down what I don't like about Ryuken and pull up the examples I'm talking about. Might not be tonight but should be up tomorrow for sure.

Still going to keep my vote on Ayano for now. Still want to hear from him.

 

[Deleted member 14134]

Tell me what you guys think about my thoughts on each rule and whether or not I'm under a misconception. For now, I'm going to do what I always do...

Unvote
Vote: No Lynch

This first, non rvs vote of his is after I asked about a possible no lynch and Minish responded favorably. Feels like he saw an opportunity to push for a no lynch since it was being talked about and decided to go for it. It goes without saying a no-lynch typically favors mafia day one since no info is revealed but since we were discussing it at the time I don't think this is the greatest scum tell.

I'm a bit hesitant to join you, but you make a good point. Another thing: considering no Dreamer is in play for this day, we don't have to worry about those kind of role claims.

Unvote
Vote: Rubik

His contradictory RVS meme vote is a scumtell, anyway.

Jumped on Rubiks wagon right away simply because funnier asked him to even though he said he was hesitant to. Felt like an easy excuse to jump on a wagon. And this was only a few posts after he voted for a no lynch.

Run-on sentences aside, I agree with what funnier says. It's best that we try to get the Mafia D1 while we're in the real world and- therefore- grounded in a Standard Mafia Day setting so that we don't have to worry about trying to lynch them in the Dreamscapes, where the rules governing them are more complex.

Just quoting this mostly to reinforce how easily he was willing to switch from wanted a no lynch to wanting a lynch.

I have a perfectly valid reason for doing this, and it's not just because my No Lynch policy was the reason why many found me scummy in almost every game I've played in. funnier6 made good points about why it would be better to lynch today while we're in the real world (and therefore, in a Standard Mafia Setting) versus once we enter a dreamscape (where the complicated Inception rules govern). Going in a DS with information is vital.

If your policy is typically a no lynch on day one I don't understand why entering the dreamscape on day 2 is suddenly a reason to want one. Maybe you can explain this more but we would gain the same amount whether we lynched or didn't lynch compared to a normal mafia game.

So yes, my playstyle has changed this game, and yes, I'm going to be taking this game more seriously.

Unvote
Vote: YIGAhim

Rubik has explained his playstyle in extensive detail, more so than in the last game I've played with him. Overall, they've contributed a lot this game. On the other hand, Yiga hasn't contributed nearly as much, and the way they word their posts feels very off to me.

Obviously, this reasoning doesn't hold in light of Rubik's recent posts, but the way they say "classic strategy" in their posts, which I interpret as him assuming all of us would read this as a common scum tactic as well, feels very off. Almost manipulative. That doesn't sit well with me.

Once again, he jumps on another growing wagon and his reasoning that Yiga was being "manipulative" by saying what he thinks is a common scum strategy doesn't make much sense to me.

Out of all the more active players, I believe Yiga is the most suspicious. I'm definitely more confident in lynching them than anyone else, and I wouldn't advocate for any lynch against inactive players. Doesn't sit well with me. If I had to switch to anyone else, I would say my second strongest suspect: Ragnarokio.

Like I said, I don't want to pursue those who are inactive like Storma, Keiko, and karu, and D1 posts don't give us a whole lot to work with considering it takes several posts and information for me to understand a player and to assemble reads.

His opinion on day one was that he didn't want to go after inactive players but he immediately voted for Ayano after I did.

In light of Storma fllipping scum, I now have to consider Keiko extremely suspicious. My theory is that the Mafia were using D1 to discuss what they were going to do not only for the day, but for night as well, trying to get an understanding of their roles and of the Inception rules that apply.

His reasoning is that since Storma was scum he believes the entire mafia team decided to lay low. So based on one inactive person flipping scum he has decided to vote for the other most inactive person based on the idea that since one inactive person was scum, the other scum must be inactive to. First of all I think this reasoning is extremely flimsy but it looks worse to me after saying on say one that he didn't want to go after inactive people. This, like every other vote he has cast outside of rvs feels opportunistic by jumping on a building wagon. Also doing it this early, like he did with Rubiks wagon could be a way to try to fly under the radar.

It was a pretty odd and redundant suggestion, which Bok pointed out themselves, but the original intention behind it is suspicious. Why vote for someone to commit suicide to "see what happens" when we could pressure a role claim out of them instead? It's counter-intuitive to helping Town.

This reasoning feels like it's either reaching or incredibly weak. How would nominating someone to commit suicide stop them from role claiming? I said we would lynch them anyways if they didn't agree to it so basically we would go about the day the same as always but let someone kill themselves before they get lynched. That wouldn't stop them from role claiming. Obviously, I realized that committing suicide would have the same effect as lynching them so I corrected myself a minute later. It's the fact that you acknowledged that I acknowledged that it was redundant but still pointed out that you think it's scummy is what makes this feel especially like reaching. Also @Ryuken I don't think you responded to what I had to say about your suspicions of me so I'd like you to do so when you have the time.

It's an interesting counterwagon, but... he's also been pretty inactive based on his post count. I don't feel comfortable hopping off the player I find the most suspicious just to pursue Doc based on your sudden epiphany.

Just feel like quoting this. If Ryuken does happen to flip scum, I may look more into doc since I'm already iffy about him.

ouble welp. Storma being lynched and flipping scum as well as funnier6 flipping town caught me completely off-guard.

While he wouldn't know anyone's roles if he was town, this just feels like something scum would typically say.

I already talked about his last post earlier in this post so I won't reiterate what I've said about that.

Unvote
Vote: Ryuken

Keiko needs to get here and post more with or without pressure votes on him. Right now though I'm much more suspicious of Ryuken.

 

[Morbid Minish]

It's nice that scum was lynched, but sucks that it was an inactive. Since now we don't have their interactions to try to get any info from. With funnier's flip I feel even better about Rubik being town. Feel like mafia might be some less experienced people, due to funnier being the nk. Because I think more experienced players would've targeted an inactive, and it seems like funnier may have been killed to try and make Rubik look bad.

Also, Bok Chan Sama pretty much said all the thoughts I had about Ryu day one, just in a much more elaborate way than I did. Save something for the rest of us to say, will ya? Ryu's still one of my top suspects. And I'm still not sold on Yiga not being scummy either, but he asked for a replacement so I'll wait for that to pan out and see what I think then.

I do get the suspicion Doc's been getting as well, but I'm uncertain about him. He was on the Storma wagon, which could be bussing. But it wasn't really necessary for a scumbud to bus then, since Storma didn't have any real suspicion behind him other than being inactive. Though maybe he thought it wouldn't come down to a cointoss and Yiga would get more votes. He's definitely someone to keep an eye on, but I don't think he's going to be my priority today.

Would really like to see some more from @Ayano Keiko @HylianEVAN and @Ragnarokio today though. We need all the help we can get trying to figure out how to work with the mechanics of this game.

Vote: Ryuken

 

[Ragnarokio]

i was busy the past couple days and ended up missing the end of yesterday but i guess it worked out pretty well so that's cool although we didn't get a roleclaim which i think is probably a bad thing?

I still need to catch up on the finer points of the EoD discussion yesterday but anyone trying to push the yiga lynch towards the end is probably the ideal lynch for today

in fact let me go back and check on that right now

all three members of the yiga wagon were on it before the storm wagon built. I would expected more bandwagonning in response to the storm wagon forming under normal circumstances, so anyone on the wagon (rubik, minish, ryu) is equally suspicious in that regard and I'd support a lynch on any of them. There's also the possibility that yiga was also scum, which would explain the lack of a bandwagon, with scum presumably opting to bus the innactive storm instead of letting yiga die. This sort of scenario will become weaker or stronger in the future though so I don't think its worth working off of right now. I suppose in that case yiga would also have likely made a point of voting storm rather than keeping his nader vote, although i guess he probably did that because of inactivity anyway. Its sort of frustrating to analyze a wagon when there are a lot of players who presumably aren't interacting with it during the important timeframe.

looking back, none of the yiga players seemingly tried very hard to push the yiga wagon at the end of the day, with ryu and rubik both posting largely passively, just responding to posts made towards them, and minish not saying anything at all. I would have expected some more effort on their part if they were trying to save storm.

I guess the bus angle is the most appealing to me right now and Doc makes the most sense to vote for since he looks the best based on yesterday.

Vote: Doc

 

[Ryuken]

Alright, I'm awake and ready to go.
Because of funnier6's death, my "critical analysis" of his exchange with Rubik doesn't really hold much value, but I'll put it here anyway in spoilers, if you're curious about what thoughts I did have:

Spoiler

Before we get to my reads list, though, let's look at that conversation between funnier6 and Rubik.

I’ve been thinking, and thinking, and thinking, and all of this is wrong. Your order of operations is just incorrect. You would have me believe that you found Yiga suspicious, voted him, and then he came up with his flimsy reasoning against you. But this is objectively wronggg. Also your explanations of “This is a bad move for town” reasoning sucks. Town makes bad moves all the time and they’re still town.

I don’t see how this shows outrage at all, if anything I detect disinterest and absent mindedness, really the only thing that might be misinterpreted is the Rubikkkkk but I add letters all the time for emphasis so I don’t see it.

funnier6 adressess Rubik's post, accusing him of having outright flawed reasoning. His evidence is YIGAhim's post, where YIGA unvotes and says Rubik is probably the safest lynch. He also chastises Rubik for misinterpreting YIGA's post, saying the post only shows him being "disinterested" and "absentminded." funnier6's hardcore Townie playstyle comes out here, and while he makes a few valid points, the way he paints them to make them stand out doesn't sit well with me. Of course, I've always had this problem with him in every game after Chaos Mafia.

I think that YiG saw that there was a wagon on me, decided to go along with it because there were people on it despite there not really being much of a reason, and then came up with the reasoning behind it after the fact. I think he started with the conclusion (Rubik has votes on him so he must be scummy [or would be convenient to pretend to believe is scummy]) and then tried to create the evidence after the fact rather than looking at the evidence and arriving at his own conclusion based on it. This is scummy (not bad play, scummy).

Then, when what would have been his case in the first place was no longer true, he still included it as his reason. He voted for me long after I had posted a pretty significant amount of content and his case (that he hadn't made the specifics of public previously, so there wasn't any chance that I was posting content because he was pressuring me to) was no longer relevant. Not to mention the fact that his attack on me was hypocritical because he himself hadn't been posting all that much content himself—I said earlier that it's strange that he would attack someone for not having much content in the first 24 hours of a game in which he himself hadn't provided much content in the first 24 hours

I can see his case on the extension thing, but, if we're talking about the "order of operations", I made comments supporting an extension LONG AFTER he had made the comments about me seeming scummy, so it obviously wasn't part of his original case against me, it was created after the fact to further justify his unsubstantiated case. This isn't my opinion, it's fact.

This means his entire case on my boiled down to "Rubik wasn't posting that much" and this ceased to be true the moment I posted. If he truly believed that being inactive for part of the day was scummy, he wouldn't have provided an excuse for his own inactivity and would have accepted that him doing it was scummy.

I didn't vote Yiga because I felt like he had an interest in lynching me, I voted for Yiga because he promised to make a post providing analysis, offered to commit suicide in a situation where obviously someone would talk him out of doing it (so it would make him seem towny without having to follow through), makes a weak attack on EVAN for doing something that isn't really especially scummy but then tries to buddy up to him by saying it's a new player mistake, and then makes an excuse for not delivering his promised reads. If I were voting for OMGUS reasons, there were 3 or 4 other players voting for me or expressing interest in voting for me that I could have jumped on, but that's not the case. I voted for the player who was active who felt the most scummy to me at the time and they just happened to have expressed interest in voting for me because I had one of the largest wagons (despite it largely being based on, I assume, you and Ryu largely picking a player at random).

I've continued to vote YIGA because the way he's responded to the pressure has also been scummy.

-

If they can't read a <200 word portion of a post that directly mentions them, they probably can't actually be engaged in a game of mafia.

I'd rather not accept them as a foregone conclusion.

Rubik rebuts with a more calm and thought-out playstyle in contrast, addressing funnier6's points in extensive detail.

I love how you thought something fundamentally different two hours ago! XD

You also completely and utterly fail to address that your OMGUS reasons were none existent and that you misinterpreted his reaction but instead pretend like those things never happened and these are the real reasons you’ve found him scummy all along. XD

Honestly man are you even listening. If they don’t show up to your mention they aren’t going to read your lecture. Has nothing to do with their capability to read it. My point was if they haven’t shown up yet why would they show up because you lectured. It doesn’t make sense.

funnier6 then claims Rubik contradicted himself without providing evidence as to how or why. He then chastises him again for not clarifying or revising his OMGUS interpretation of YIGAhim, saying it's outright wrong. funnier6 has this "speak first, think later" attitude in his playstyle that I don't like, and you can see that here during my exchange with him. It makes him seem very cocky and overconfident as if he knows people will see him as Town regardless of what he says.

I don't know what you mean by me thinking something different two hours ago. Care to elaborate?

I don't know what you mean by this either. I already stated that I think he voted for me because I voted for him. I think his mindset went something like:

"i'm being pressured -> i need to come up with a justification for saying rubik was scummy to defuse the pressure -> i guess these are things that i could say are scummy about him -> here are some excuses for my own lack of content because otherwise my attack could just as easily be applied to me -> if that's how you want to play it, rubik, i will vote for you too."​

That last bit especially, felt like he was saying to me, "If you're going to vote for me, fine. Two can play at that game." Saying "Alright Rubik. // Vote Rubikkkkkk" felt like it carried that exact sort of "two can play at that game" tone to it. Hence OMGUS.

-

If they do show up to my mention, they might read my message to them. I was hoping it might inspire them to read at least some of the thread if they're feeling intimidated by how much has been posted today. I don't why trying to make an appeal for them to read some of the thread is that strange.

-

And please don't use "XD" passive aggressively. My fragile heart can't take it.

Rubik clarifies further, expounding on why and how he interpreted YIGA's actions. He's confused about why funnier6 is pressing him like this. His explanations make sense, and they reinforce what he's already said up to this point.

I don’t really know how to get clearer but I’ll try.

Two hours ago you said thought Yiga probably wouldn’t have voted you if you hadn’t voted him. Now you say he had it in his head all along. This renders your OMGUS reasons moot. You completely failed to address that it made then moot. In fact you acted as though you had completely different reasons all along. Though you appear to have rescinded your rescind and we’re back at square one again. Do you see why this utterly bonkers to me?

I wasn’t using it passive aggressively, that’s how I express when I’m laughing irl.

funnier6 finally provides the evidence for his claim, referring to this post that contradicts his thought process. funnier6 makes a valid point about it rendering Rubik's OMGUS reasons moot, and now his thought process starts to become clearer.

Okay, I think I see where the disconnect here is. Here's how these ideas coexist for me without any sort of contradiction in my mind.

• YIG voiced interest in voting for me because it was a convenient place to put his vote. He said it was a safe choice, in reality it was a safe choice for him because there were already multiple people on the wagon. He didn't commit to a vote, he literally just says that voting for me is safe and unvotes. This allows him to vote for me if my wagon is looking strong or freely switch to whatever other wagon has attention on it without drawing attention to himself.
• I vote for him because of reasons unrelated to him expressing a desire to potentially later vote for me. It's also a reason related to him voting for me, which is why I suppose you could see the two ideas as a contradiction. The distinction between the two concepts is that it could have been a vote for anybody and it would have been scummy. I voted for him because of what he was doing, not who he was doing it to. On the other hand, the reasons he applies for voting for me don't really apply and some of them weren't even around when he decided I was a "safe" vote.
• Now he's forced to double down. Instead of having just the possibility to vote for me, he feels backed into a corner and forced to. If I'd wagoned someone else and my own wagon had gone cold, I imagine he'd have found someone he could more conveniently make a case on. This is OMGUS, at least my definition of it. He's voting for me BECAUSE I voted for him. I'm voting for him because he felt scummy because of multiple posts I read as scummy, one of them being one where he expressed interest in a wagon because it was "safe", the fact that that person was me was largely irrelevant to me. Part of the reason he felt scummy was that he was calling my wagon "safe" as a way of expressing approval for it.

I don't see any of that as logically incompatible. I'm sorry if I didn't make my thought process clear or if it still isn't clear to you.

-

Depending on why you're laughing, the act of laughing can be passive aggressive. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're just having such a fun time taking to me that it's causing you to laugh, though.

-

I'm off to D&D. Night will probably be over before I can post again.

Rubik realizes why funnier6 is pressing him and clears up the contradiction, explaining his own actions and his interpretation of Yiga's posts further.

I’m really glad you found a way to explain that in a way that made sense, I was really starting to think you were making things up. Finally can see your point of view. However I still don’t understand how you find it “doubling down” and aggressive when Yiga voted for you. Even if you’re right about everything I still don’t see anything but disinterest in that post.

Well your post was so nonsensical to me and absolutely unexpected and I could hardly believe I could be so lucky as to trip you up over yourself and off a mountain. So if you call that passive aggressive then I suppose so. I’m sure some of it was from your funnier joke so there’s that.

funnier6 compliments Rubik for his explanations, but still disagrees on his interpretations of YIGA. I share the same sentiment because he said towards the end of D1 that he'll be preoccupied with camping and will need a substitute, proving that Yiga hasn't been all that engaged in Mafia due to being busy.

Conclusion: funnier6 is a neutral read, and Rubik is a town read. funnier6 hasn't actually done anything that contradicts his playstyle or has said anything hypocritcal, and Rubik has explained his thought process in extensive detail and with good reasoning. Sure, you could chalk it up to my own paranoia of funnier6, but I don't like it when someone acts this reckless as if they're immune to suspicion.

They're incomplete, but eh, one's dead while the other still reads Town to me.

Now for the reads list:

YIGAHim- Scum. Not just for having flawed reasoning, but for his seemingly manipulative wording, using words like "classic scum tactics" as if we'd read Rubik the same way. Doesn't sit well with me.
Keiko- Scum. I want them to speak more today because all I have heard from them is an RVS meme vote. Storma's flip makes me suspicious of them because they haven't posted or explained why they've been inactive.
Ragnarokio- Neutral. Their first vote towards me was a seemingly random vote with a seemingly random explanation for it after the fact. They never explained it, but they chose to vote for Stormageden afterwards, and on their next vote they wanted an extension. They haven't contributed much for D1, but like Rubik said in his reads list, they haven't posted too much or too little enough to be identified as town or scum in their "binary" playstyle. I don't know if their playstyle really is that black & white, but my suspicions on them aren't that strong, anyway, so I'll take Rubik's word for it.
Bok Chan Sama- Town. The only thing I have on them is more a hunch about their initial suicide suggestion. They've posted comprehensive reads, though it's interesting they've left me out of it, saying everything about me has already been said.
HylianEVAN- Neutral. They voted funnier6 for tagging them, wondering why and posted about who they suspect. They never explained why they suspect them, though they haven't raised any flags that contradict their playstyle or how they normally post. He's not been very active, however, so I have an eye out for them.
Doc- Town. They voted for Stormageden, tying the votes on both Yiga and Storma wagons. I don't think Mafia would risk a coin flip between Yiga and their Chemist to appear Town, so his vote isn't scummy to me. However, I want to see more from them today, especially after funnier6's read on them.
Rubik- Town. Their playstyle is completely different from the last game I played with them, and they've been a lot more helpful this time around. I haven't seen anything from their playstyle this game that raised any suspicion other than that "contradiction" funmier6 pointed out in their thought process, which he gave a reasonable explanation for.

Today's been very busy and hectic for me, but I'll try to address the posts about me as soon as possible. I will say now that I've already announced during D1 that my playstyle has changed and acknowledged my seemingly "opportunistic" vote on Rubik that Minish and funnier6 commented on. I'll elaborate more on my thought process and my playstyle soon, especially concerning my vote on Ayano Keiko and my read on Doc since we seem to have dissenting opinions there.

 

[Ryuken]

**Forgot about karu. Whoops
karu- Neutral. They haven't posted a whole lot, mostly echoing everyone else's thoughts during D1. I want to see more from them.

 

[DekuNut]

@funnier6 has replaced @YIGAhim

 

[Deleted member 14134]

@funnier6 has replaced @YIGAhim

I mean, welcome back friend.

 

[funnier6]

YESSSSS I’M BACK!!!!! Glad I hadn’t thrown out all my notes yet.

I didn't have time to double check most of these games, but the first one is probably the best example of my mafia play.

The first one isn’t there.

For anybody that’s wondering/doesn’t feel like going through them here’s my thoughts on Rubik meta. I didn’t read all of either games I chose (they’re super long!) but I think I got a few interesting things. Firstly, if Rubik is town than his meta is completely useless cause this matches terribly well with how he played in Shrek mafia and has similarities to the scum game I read. In the town game I read he made occasional short posts and tended to double post, in the scum game he was less active but he made at least one really long read listy post like he’s done in this game and last one. Of course these games are from one and two years ago so they’re not necessarily going to be the same Rubik as today but it’s insane how dissimilar his town game is from this game and last game. Makes me see why Jamie cop checked him last game. Anyway I’m just gonna pray he’s town for now.

Honestly what I can gather from the entire page of Rubik and funnier fighting is that funnier is misunderstanding rubik and rubik is just pissed at this point from explaining to funnier why he finds Yiga suspicious.

Quote me where you find Rubik aggressive. All I’ve seen from him is helpful and disarming. You also appear to believe I’m arguing and being aggressive for my health or something.

Really don’t like that “what you gathered” was that you find my arguing annoying and nothing alignment indicative whatsoever. (Though of course that’s moot now)

All the discussion so far is Rubik and funnier fighting.

This is blatantly wrong and I find it very hypocritical for you to barely say anything all day and then come back right at the end to say that we’ve done nothing but argue (which apparently equates to less than doing nothing in your book rather than solving the game) and then all that to lead up to you don’t know who to vote because of all the non discussion going on.

More relevant thoughts coming right up!

 

[funnier6]

In light of Storma fllipping scum, I now have to consider Keiko extremely suspicious.

Why on earth does that make you suspicious of Ayano?

This first, non rvs vote of his is after I asked about a possible no lynch and Minish responded favorably. Feels like he saw an opportunity to push for a no lynch since it was being talked about and decided to go for it. It goes without saying a no-lynch typically favors mafia day one since no info is revealed but since we were discussing it at the time I don't think this is the greatest scum tell.

Jumped on Rubiks wagon right away simply because funnier asked him to even though he said he was hesitant to. Felt like an easy excuse to jump on a wagon. And this was only a few posts after he voted for a no lynch.

Just quoting this mostly to reinforce how easily he was willing to switch from wanted a no lynch to wanting a lynch.

If your policy is typically a no lynch on day one I don't understand why entering the dreamscape on day 2 is suddenly a reason to want one. Maybe you can explain this more but we would gain the same amount whether we lynched or didn't lynch compared to a normal mafia game.


Once again, he jumps on another growing wagon and his reasoning that Yiga was being "manipulative" by saying what he thinks is a common scum strategy doesn't make much sense to me.


His opinion on day one was that he didn't want to go after inactive players but he immediately voted for Ayano after I did.

His reasoning is that since Storma was scum he believes the entire mafia team decided to lay low. So based on one inactive person flipping scum he has decided to vote for the other most inactive person based on the idea that since one inactive person was scum, the other scum must be inactive to. First of all I think this reasoning is extremely flimsy but it looks worse to me after saying on say one that he didn't want to go after inactive people. This, like every other vote he has cast outside of rvs feels opportunistic by jumping on a building wagon. Also doing it this early, like he did with Rubiks wagon could be a way to try to fly under the radar.

This reasoning feels like it's either reaching or incredibly weak. How would nominating someone to commit suicide stop them from role claiming? I said we would lynch them anyways if they didn't agree to it so basically we would go about the day the same as always but let someone kill themselves before they get lynched. That wouldn't stop them from role claiming. Obviously, I realized that committing suicide would have the same effect as lynching them so I corrected myself a minute later. It's the fact that you acknowledged that I acknowledged that it was redundant but still pointed out that you think it's scummy is what makes this feel especially like reaching. Also @Ryuken I don't think you responded to what I had to say about your suspicions of me so I'd like you to do so when you have the time.

Just feel like quoting this. If Ryuken does happen to flip scum, I may look more into doc since I'm already iffy about him.

While he wouldn't know anyone's roles if he was town, this just feels like something scum would typically say.

I already talked about his last post earlier in this post so I won't reiterate what I've said about that.

Unvote
Vote: Ryuken

Keiko needs to get here and post more with or without pressure votes on him. Right now though I'm much more suspicious of Ryuken.

Kay I read this pretty closely and might’ve missed it but you forget how hesitant Ryu was to change votes toward the end “because I’ve already changed votes too many times” which really rings weird to me in and of itself but now knowing both Yigas and storms alignments I feel like it was flat out trying to save storma. I can see Ryu holding out and hoping someone will change off storma or onto Yiga where someone else would’ve given up and gone for the bus. I’m all right with a Ryu lynch rn but I’m gonna refrain from voting while I think of a counter wagon.

And I'm still not sold on Yiga not being scummy either, but he asked for a replacement so I'll wait for that to pan out and see what I think then.

It’s okay I’m Yiga now.

I do get the suspicion Doc's been getting as well, but I'm uncertain about him. He was on the Storma wagon, which could be bussing. But it wasn't really necessary for a scumbud to bus then, since Storma didn't have any real suspicion behind him other than being inactive.

Totally agree with this, I don’t think Doc would’ve bussed like this when he might’ve very well survived if only Doc hadn’t voted for him. That’s hard bussing for day one where it really wasn’t necessary.

with scum presumably opting to bus the innactive storm instead of letting yiga die.

Kay this doesn’t really make sense. You seem to be saying that since both Yiga and storms are scum mafia decides to bus storma to save Yiga but with a three man scum team that just doesn’t work. We already know Yiga didn’t vote storma and storma didn’t vote himself so if you’re theory is correct at all there was a grand total of one mafia vote on storma which really if they had seriously wanted storma dead over Yiga it would’ve been quite simple for storma to vote himself and seal the deal. (Presuming he was around. And presuming they had planned it he would’ve been surely)

However, I want to see more from them today, especially after funnier6's read on them.

Just what exactly is this supposed to mean? Are you suspicious because I was suspicious? Because I was town and suspicious? Why can’t you rely on your own read?

 

[funnier6]

Oh right, the other thing! What are we going to do with whoever gets lynched today? Do we send people to go back and kill them? If so who? Do we implore the vig to kill them? We might not have a vig of course but would it be a bad idea to try? Assuming nothing happens I suppose we’d just send people.

I wonder what would happen if you were stuck on a level all by yourself. I guess you just sit there for the phase.

 

[Deleted member 14134]

Kay I read this pretty closely and might’ve missed it but you forget how hesitant Ryu was to change votes toward the end “because I’ve already changed votes too many times” which really rings weird to me in and of itself but now knowing both Yigas and storms alignments I feel like it was flat out trying to save storma. I can see Ryu holding out and hoping someone will change off storma or onto Yiga where someone else would’ve given up and gone for the bus. I’m all right with a Ryu lynch rn but I’m gonna refrain from voting while I think of a counter wagon.

Actually thanks for reminding me cuz I was going to post something like that but forgot.

Funnier pretty much said it here but I think it looks bad that the one wagon he didn't jump to turned out to flip scum. Could just be coincidence but with all the previous wagon jumping and the day ending in a coinflip it looks pretty bad. It makes me feel a lot better about Yiga/funnier2.0 and if ryu flipped scum I'd say funnier 2.0 is all but cleared as town.

 

[Deleted member 14134]

Totally agree with this, I don’t think Doc would’ve bussed like this when he might’ve very well survived if only Doc hadn’t voted for him. That’s hard bussing for day one where it really wasn’t necessary.

I would totally do that as scum to an inactive scummate when my vote would only result in a 50% chance of him being lynched. I doubt that's what doc was doing but I wouldn't completely put it past someone to do that.

 

[Ragnarokio]

yeah its not really possible to collude i guess. Something else which would explain the way the wagon unfolded is the mafia just being inactive so i guess looking at players who were away when the day ended is a decent idea.

 

[Ryuken]

This first, non rvs vote of his is after I asked about a possible no lynch and Minish responded favorably. Feels like he saw an opportunity to push for a no lynch since it was being talked about and decided to go for it. It goes without saying a no-lynch typically favors mafia day one since no info is revealed but since we were discussing it at the time I don't think this is the greatest scum tell.

You're viewing this as if I haven't said I always advocate for a No Lynch D1. I don't take "opportunities," I always go after what seems the most suspicious to me, and D1 scumhunting isn't something I'm comfortable with. You can see that in the previous games I've played, especially in Chaos Mafia.

Jumped on Rubiks wagon right away simply because funnier asked him to even though he said he was hesitant to. Felt like an easy excuse to jump on a wagon. And this was only a few posts after he voted for a no lynch.

I stated a few times that I agreed with funnier6's points about lynching someone while one is in the real world versus a dream, especially after he elaborated further. I was hesitant because I'm not used to scumhunting D1, which you can see in past games I've played in like Chaos Mafia.

Just quoting this mostly to reinforce how easily he was willing to switch from wanted a no lynch to wanting a lynch.

Personally, I would find switching from wanting a no lynch to wanting a lynch more suspicious if the person joined or started a wagon for no reason whatsoever. The quote you selected is where I reinforce my reasons for agreeing with funnier6, and I don't think I would say I switched over "easily" considering I was hesitant to join him in the first place.

If your policy is typically a no lynch on day one I don't understand why entering the dreamscape on day 2 is suddenly a reason to want one. Maybe you can explain this more but we would gain the same amount whether we lynched or didn't lynch compared to a normal mafia game.

These are the points I was referring too when I said that:

You know relying on night actions simply isn’t going to get us anywhere as even if somebody does get good info we won’t have anything to talk about unless they reveal it and then mafia will know too and I just don’t like that course of action.

In the IRC games I used to play before, many people were comfortable revealing night info because it not only solidified their alignment, it helped Town figure out whether or not it would be a good idea to Lynch or No Lynch. D1 usually ends with a No Lynch in my games. Obviously, those games weren't as serious or slow-paced as these forum games because no one here thinks or plays like that. The meta here seems to be that giving Mafia even the slightest edge is a disadvantage to Town whether that be No Lynching D1 or revealing night info the following days.

Really I think sticking to what we know is best, going deeper into the dream relying on powers we don’t understand to do stuff we probably won’t understand to tell us stuff we might not understand instead of using the good old fashioned way I feel will leave us like fish out of water and not do things ourselves during the day phases.

I mention some of this in my Inception rule analysis, but considering the nature and theme of this game and based on the Inception rules, there are possibly roles or modifiers created exclusively for this game that give both Town and Mafia certain perks. Otherwise, it would be pretty stacked against Mafia due to Town's extra win condition of reaching Dreamscape 3- AKA Day 4. Since no one wants to reveal roles and powers unless absolutely necessary, we have to rely on deductions and interpretations based on prior knowledge from previous games. No game I've ever played before has had special rules or conditions like this, so therefore, it seemed necessary to me to change my approach and take it more seriously. That is why I thought we should try lynching someone D1, and why I agreed with funnier6's points.

Once again, he jumps on another growing wagon and his reasoning that Yiga was being "manipulative" by saying what he thinks is a common scum strategy doesn't make much sense to me.

I guess it was bad wording that confused you, so lemme clarify.
I don't like when someone assumes every player knows what scum tactic another player just used because we don't all come from the same Mafia background (especially me). It gives them less of an obligation to explain further than they "need to," making their posts intentionally vague. In my eyes, this makes them scummy, more so when their assumption or explanation is flawed.

His opinion on day one was that he didn't want to go after inactive players but he immediately voted for Ayano after I did.

Objection.
After Storma flipped scum, I was planning on voting Keiko to pressure them to talk because they were inactive like Storma was. You beat me to the punch since you made your vote literally 3 minutes after the announcement was made. Also, "immediately" isn't really an accurate adjective to use considering I made my vote 43 minutes after your vote post. I was on the verge of falling asleep, too, but that's besides the point.

His reasoning is that since Storma was scum he believes the entire mafia team decided to lay low. So based on one inactive person flipping scum he has decided to vote for the other most inactive person based on the idea that since one inactive person was scum, the other scum must be inactive to. First of all I think this reasoning is extremely flimsy but it looks worse to me after saying on say one that he didn't want to go after inactive people. This, like every other vote he has cast outside of rvs feels opportunistic by jumping on a building wagon. Also doing it this early, like he did with Rubiks wagon could be a way to try to fly under the radar.

The theory I made was mostly to get people to talk and to apply more pressure on Ayano Keiko, but I'd like to hear why you think my reasoning for it is flimsy since you just repeated what I said and didn't explain why. And l like I said before, I don't take opportunities, I follow my own suspicions and use my own judgement. If I wanted to fly under the radar, I would have waited until more discussion brewed before hastily "joining" a wagon.

This reasoning feels like it's either reaching or incredibly weak. How would nominating someone to commit suicide stop them from role claiming? I said we would lynch them anyways if they didn't agree to it so basically we would go about the day the same as always but let someone kill themselves before they get lynched. That wouldn't stop them from role claiming. Obviously, I realized that committing suicide would have the same effect as lynching them so I corrected myself a minute later. It's the fact that you acknowledged that I acknowledged that it was redundant but still pointed out that you think it's scummy is what makes this feel especially like reaching.

I already said that was why you were third on my suspect list here. I KNOW my reasoning against you was weak, and I acknowledge that. I'm not gonna try to use that to lynch you since not only would people disagree with my thoughts, they would find me scummy.

Also @Ryuken I don't think you responded to what I had to say about your suspicions of me so I'd like you to do so when you have the time.

I'll get to that in a bit.

Just feel like quoting this. If Ryuken does happen to flip scum, I may look more into doc since I'm already iffy about him.

I understand why you are, but personally, I don't think Mafia would want to risk a coin flip between Yiga and Stormageden. He was the vote who tied the wagons, after all.

While he wouldn't know anyone's roles if he was town, this just feels like something scum would typically say.

Do you think I would be that stupid to say this out loud if I was scum? Maybe if I was surprised by a sudden development as scum, I would voice my thoughts and feelings in the private chat with them, not out here.
The reason why I said that was because I typically avoid inactives due to my experience of them being Townies most of the time. I did not expect the first scum we hit this game on D1 to be a person who only posted once.

TL;DR- I do not take "opportunistic" votes, so that interpretation of me is wrong. D1 scumhunting is not my strong suit or even a comfortable suit. My playstyle has changed from my IRC Mafia style to better suit forum Mafia.

Also, @Bok Chan Sama remind me when you made your post about my suspicions of you? I'm having trouble finding it, but to answer anyway, my overall suspicions of you can be summarized as "just a hunch," like I said in my reads list. My reasoning against you isn't that strong, after all, so I won't be advocating for a lynch unless something more suspicious happens.

I guess the bus angle is the most appealing to me right now and Doc makes the most sense to vote for since he looks the best based on yesterday.

Vote: Doc

Since people are giving voice to the possibility of bussing, lemme ask you this: Do you think the Mafia would risk a coin toss between two wagons that would determine the fate of their own Chemist? It was already starting to look like neither Yiga or Storma would role claim, so they could have avoided that situation by voting Yiga (if he's Town, that is.)

Now that funnier6 is back, the nonexistant rivalry between me and him can continue.

Why on earth does that make you suspicious of Ayano?

Because like Storma, he only made one post and was quiet for the other 99%