Team Fortress 2: Mann vs. Machine

[Mellow Ezlo]

Even-Night and Odd-Night roles? Could this mean that all Mafia power roles are even and all Town power roles are odd, or could it be mixed..?

Read the thread, the way it works was established way back during day 1. The presence of two different town roleblockers on the dead list should be a dead giveaway as to how it works though.

 

[Mellow Ezlo]

Also, Pendio's death makes Kokirion look a bit worse. I found both of them equally suspicious during their intense banter yesterday, so I don't know that I can really say Koko is scum based on Pendio's flip. However, I know several people expressed suspicion on Koko during the last game day, so I'm gonna take a look back at his posts.

 

[Viral Maze]

I didn't like the Johnny lynch, but its better a Day 2 lynch and figuring out this early we have 4 VTs, than a Day 5 or 6 scenario.

Aw crap, now both of our roleblockers are down. :/ Looks like an ill-fated Vigilante kill to me, judging from the flavour text. Interestingly, the mafia don't seem to have gotten their kill yet again. @Malon, who was it that you protected?

I always found town RBs quite useless unless the Mafia have some insane powers too. Even then, they're more likely to RB townies anyway. Hate to say it, but its not a huge loss as far as roles go, although Pendio will be missed.

Also, Pendio's death makes Kokirion look a bit worse. I found both of them equally suspicious during their intense banter yesterday, so I don't know that I can really say Koko is scum based on Pendio's flip. However, I know several people expressed suspicion on Koko during the last game day, so I'm gonna take a look back at his posts.

Why would Pendio's death make Koki look scummy? The day scene reads like Pen was hit by the vig.

 

[Ronin]

Read the thread, the way it works was established way back during day 1. The presence of two different town roleblockers on the dead list should be a dead giveaway as to how it works though.

But if it really does/did work that way, then the repercussions would be enormous. The Mafia could attack on their given Nights without interruption, and the Town could do the same on the next Night. Taking turns means that one faction would have their way.

Nonetheless, I just realized that if Malon is Town, then he was able to cover for Town during Mafia's turn. Perhaps it also works like this: all killing and protective roles act during the even Night phases and the investigative roles act on the Night phases. The way that Deku is staggering the abilities like this is interesting, because the variables could insinuate virtually anything.

 

[Mipha]

But if it really does/did work that way, then the repercussions would be enormous. The Mafia could attack on their given Nights without interruption, and the Town could do the same on the next Night. Taking turns means that one faction would have their way.

Nonetheless, I just realized that if Malon is Town, then he was able to cover for Town during Mafia's turn. Perhaps it also works like this: all killing and protective roles act during the even Night phases and the investigative roles act on the Night phases. The way that Deku is staggering the abilities like this is interesting, because the variables could insinuate virtually anything.

We don't really take turns I don't think. I think the Mafia acts as usual and half of the town can act on odd nights and another half on even nights, with two of each role. Like a blue Doctor that can protect on even nights and a red that can protect on odd nights or such.

 

[Viral Maze]

But if it really does/did work that way, then the repercussions would be enormous. The Mafia could attack on their given Nights without interruption, and the Town could do the same on the next Night. Taking turns means that one faction would have their way.

Nonetheless, I just realized that if Malon is Town, then he was able to cover for Town during Mafia's turn. Perhaps it also works like this: all killing and protective roles act during the even Night phases and the investigative roles act on the Night phases. The way that Deku is staggering the abilities like this is interesting, because the variables could insinuate virtually anything.

I think the mafia acts as usual since robots have attacked twice now. And the rest can be figured out by the day scenes.

 

[Mellow Ezlo]

Why would Pendio's death make Koki look scummy? The day scene reads like Pen was hit by the vig.

Mostly it's to do with the back-and-forth that they had during the previous day. Koki was going after him really hard, although to be completely honest, Pendio was doing the same thing back. It's very possible that it was a town vs. Town argument.

On second though, I don't see Koki going after someone like that if he were mafia, it'd be too obvious.

Nonetheless, I just realized that if Malon is Town, then he was able to cover for Town during Mafia's turn. Perhaps it also works like this: all killing and protective roles act during the even Night phases and the investigative roles act on the Night phases. The way that Deku is staggering the abilities like this is interesting, because the variables could insinuate virtually anything.

I can confirm this to be untrue.

There are two versions of each town power role, one for each team, with one having even night abilities and one having odd night abilities. The existence of two town role blockers practically confirms this to be the case. If investigative roles went one night and protective roles another, it would be unbalanced. It's pretty well balanced this way.

 

[kokirion]

Hmm, I certainly did not expect the mafia to target me last night. Good thing I prepared a plan b in advance, though.

Anyone who was the "real" target, or thinks he knows for sure I'm lying, don't hesitate to counterclaim! I mean, if you do, you have scum ready to be lynched in front of you! But if you falsely claim now and I flip town after I die...
Ironically this is a great opportunity to prove my innocence.

I do am still baffled as to why I was targeted. I assumed that the mafia would've seen me as a potential lynch for today. If I'm dead the town would need to find a completely new target which I don't see the mafia benefitting from. From a tactical perspective I would also doubt that I'd be targeted because I just attacked a right person. I would rather argue it might be the other way around, to falsely "confirm" an idea I brough forward. Hmm. I need to think about that.
Pendio's death is also interesting. But as we know for sure that he was killed by the vig I'll leave that topic alone, theorising about that could only hurt the vig.

 

[Jamie]

Sup homes I'll male some good posts today just u wait

 

[Soul]

Hmm, I certainly did not expect the mafia to target me last night. Good thing I prepared a plan b in advance, though.

Anyone who was the "real" target, or thinks he knows for sure I'm lying, don't hesitate to counterclaim! I mean, if you do, you have scum ready to be lynched in front of you! But if you falsely claim now and I flip town after I die...
Ironically this is a great opportunity to prove my innocence.

I do am still baffled as to why I was targeted. I assumed that the mafia would've seen me as a potential lynch for today. If I'm dead the town would need to find a completely new target which I don't see the mafia benefitting from. From a tactical perspective I would also doubt that I'd be targeted because I just attacked a right person. I would rather argue it might be the other way around, to falsely "confirm" an idea I brough forward. Hmm. I need to think about that.
Pendio's death is also interesting. But as we know for sure that he was killed by the vig I'll leave that topic alone, theorising about that could only hurt the vig.

What the hell are you talking about? Did I get that right, you think they targeted you, but somehow got redirected towards Tristan instead? What?

 

[kokirion]

What the hell are you talking about? Did I get that right, you think they targeted you, but somehow got redirected towards Tristan instead? What?

I'm not revealing HOW I avoided the bullet, that are your words, but I was definitely the target

 

[Soul]

I'm not revealing HOW I avoided the bullet, that are your words, but I was definitely the target

Interesting. I'll see if whatever you're doing leads you anywhere then, though at the moment I can't see how.

 

[ectoBiologist]

Hmm, I certainly did not expect the mafia to target me last night. Good thing I prepared a plan b in advance, though.

Anyone who was the "real" target, or thinks he knows for sure I'm lying, don't hesitate to counterclaim! I mean, if you do, you have scum ready to be lynched in front of you! But if you falsely claim now and I flip town after I die...
Ironically this is a great opportunity to prove my innocence.

I do am still baffled as to why I was targeted. I assumed that the mafia would've seen me as a potential lynch for today. If I'm dead the town would need to find a completely new target which I don't see the mafia benefitting from. From a tactical perspective I would also doubt that I'd be targeted because I just attacked a right person. I would rather argue it might be the other way around, to falsely "confirm" an idea I brough forward. Hmm. I need to think about that.
Pendio's death is also interesting. But as we know for sure that he was killed by the vig I'll leave that topic alone, theorising about that could only hurt the vig.

Judging by the Night scene, and what you said here, I think I have a good idea of what your role is, Kokirion, but I'm not going to say what I think just yet.

Anyway, quite a twist in events. It seems like we have some vigilantes, or some Town killing role, that are hitting to wrong targets as of late, and the Mafia are just missing again and again. I really didn't expect Pendio to be killed. But like Viral said, Roleblockers aren't that important overall, as they sort of hinder the Town's efforts by blocking potentially Mafia, but mostly blocking Town. It's awful that we lost Pendio, but it could have been worse role wise.

So, any new leads?

 

[kokirion]

Day one you go after Pendio, someone who has been an enormous thorn in our sides during games years ago. I'll be honest, I'm just as paranoid about Pendio as you are. I can't think of another player on this site that gives absolutely zero hints as to his allegiance. I'm honestly think I could play around every mafia regular on this site except that guy, and you have every reason to share that notion given our past experiences. That you would go after him so very early while a great deal of other drama is going on points to you being a townie who just thinks he's too scary of a player to make it past day one, or a scum that wants him out of the way fast. I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't rather Pendio just be dead right now because he's such a question mark that no one can trust, and again, I think you feel the same if you're town. But that doesn't mean I can just try to lead a crusade against him right off the bat; there's no concrete evidence or indications to work with.

Now Now. Don't exaggerate here.
You make a good point. I have so much trouble reading Pendio. You know, in every game I've played with him he has so far played the exact same way everytime. To make it worse, he's been quite a bit more often mafia in the games I played with him, so there is little reference material for me when he was town.
I have actually been thinking about this the last couple of days. Pendio and I clash a lot in mafia games, prety much every game so far unless we were in the same team. It's because our ways of thought are quite different. In my eyes, red flags always go off when I see Pendio playing. It's because he often plays as how I would envisage that a mafia player should play following all rulebooks to the exact note. But because it is in my eyes just too much of a model scum strategy, I can't help but be extremely wary of him. But you were right, and I too realised that. I called him out, but I also let it go. I don't think I've been that agressive towards Pendio at all this game, in fact I think I have been very careful. I called him out on, in my eyes, good reasons, I checked his responses but remained flexible instead of blindly trying to get rid of him.

"crusade" is quite a strong worth, and a tad out of place.

Even more if you'd analyse our "clash". I've just looked through all our posts. Out of 40 posts I've made, I've only dedicated 6 about my waryness towards Pendio. Spread over 37 pages. You say I've played very agressively this game, can't deny that, so in these 34(!) other posts I've discussed other people.

But I can actually look past just targeting Pendio on day one, I really can. But then Sadia just dies out of the blue for seemingly no reason when we have a confirmed doctor(!). You may have missed it when I brought it up, but I mentioned Pirates 2 for a reason - she ran circles around you that game, just like she did me. I remember you trying frantically to convince the town you weren't scum, with these long paragraphs you like to create, but she just wasn't having it. She figured you out, and that paved the way for us getting rounded up and bowing out fairly early in that game. You're one of the few people in this game that knew how dangerous she was if she got on a roll, and you're friends to boot. I didn't point this out earlier because I know the same applies to me; but this Sadia point goes both ways, and she would definitely be higher on your priority list than mine given the outcome of Pirates 2. Maybe you knew our confirmed doctor could be protected due to a possible odd/even mechanic, and you targeted someone else on your list?

You're right about that. If I had a nightkill I might have considered killing her. But I mean, everyone would link her to me. I would rather say someone else experienced who had a history with her, although less publicly, is more likely to kill her. If I would send a bomb, I would not try to send it from the postal office next door.

And now I'm your target? Kokirion, you've gone down your checklist rather well when it comes to players you know have done well with you or against you in the past. Pendio? Check. Sadia? Check. Me? Check. Isn't it weird that all three of us, two of which you've abruptly but your vote on and another which is dead, all have a connection to you via very intense and close past games? Looking down the list, there's..... no one else I can think of that matches the bill that us three do, except maybe ALIT. That's such a weird coincidence, right?

Allow me to recall whose alignments I've all discussed this game:
Pendio, Storm, Malon, Sadia, Viral Maze, Johnny Sooshi, Frozen Chosen, HOT, Zelda15, ALIT and Vergo. That are 11 in total. Right now 16 are alive.
Out of those alive, it's kind of hard to say anything about Crusader, Jamie, zelda15, HOT, Doc and Night Owl, because they have said so little. As you see in the list above, I've mentioned my worries about some of them. But I concluded before the end of last night that I have the feeling we're having quite an experienced scum group. Anyway, I still doubt all 5 of these quasi-inactives are part of the scum team. So I stopped hunting them for now.
That only leaves 9 people (excluding me). I'm not suspicious of Tristan, Malon and Soul, and I am still "positive" about Mido and FC. I'm positively neutral about Toxic. So that leaves just 3 people: Viral, Vergo and ALIT.
I'm negative about ALIT, as adressed earlier. But I'll have to analyse his posts more extensively. I'll do that sometime soon. I'm neutral about Viral, but it's harder for me to judge because I don't know his playstyle all that well. By deduction, that leaves only one person. I never suspected you, to be honest, during all of day 1 you were on my town list. But when I took an honest look at your posts, I was neither that happy with how you played this game (so that feeling is mutual). And in my opinion you somewhat fit the description. You played relatively low key, only attacked people that were already in the discussion, not to mention that Sadia's death is also a possibly interesting link to you... yes, I have a history with her, but you as well. And you also know that people will first look at me before looking at you, so being unable to kill the doctor, Sadia would be a very viable option if you were scum.

I'm not saying here that all 3 people that I'm most negative about are scum. It might very well be that only one of them is, 1 of the people I currently view as townish and 2 inactives, for example. But these do are the people I'm watching lately.
I'm also taking another look at those I've so far seen as town. Such as Mido and Toxic. Not because I suspect them, but because I don't want to blindly trust people to find out I'm wrong after LYLO.

So hinting only towards me mentioning Pendio, Sadia and you is a bit misleading. Even more if you consider that the only reason such a clash with say Pendio and now you happened is because of how agressive the 2 of you respond to accusations compared to other people. Not really my own choice.

But enough about the credibility of my analyses, I've given quite an in-depth answer about that here, as well as with my recent claim. I wonder, in return, who the people are you are suspicious of and why. I've never said that you are certainly scum. I suspect you to be, but provide me with a different insight about the game then. We can only learn from that.

 

[kokirion]

Actually, I would like to hear from every player who he/she suspects and trusts, preferably to divide every living player between town and scum. If we all open some books there, we both have a great start for a discussion and force the mafia to improvise and lie.