Ragnarokio
AVATAR NOT BY JIMMU
unvote, vote: ayano keiko
Curious about this. Day one you said I was you're third most suspicious read but now you have me as town above 2 scum leans and 2 null leans. Do you feel better about me now or worse about other people? And what brought about this change if you feel better about me?Bok Chan Sama- Town. The only thing I have on them is more a hunch about their initial suicide suggestion. They've posted comprehensive reads, though it's interesting they've left me out of it, saying everything about me has already been said.
I just don't see the difference between day one in this game and day on in a normal game. You even said in that post you linked that day one follows standard mafia day settings. I guess you;re saying because of what happens in the later days once we enter the dream tat made you change this policy? I still don't really see how what may happen in later days in this game affects whether or not we should lynch on day one or not.I stated a few times that I agreed with funnier6's points about lynching someone while one is in the real world versus a dream, especially after he elaborated further. I was hesitant because I'm not used to scumhunting D1, which you can see in past games I've played in like Chaos Mafia.
Your reasons weren't your own though, they were funniers. And I would hardly say you were hesitant considering you voted for him in your next post after funnier voted for Rubik.Personally, I would find switching from wanting a no lynch to wanting a lynch more suspicious if the person joined or started a wagon for no reason whatsoever. The quote you selected is where I reinforce my reasons for agreeing with funnier6, and I don't think I would say I switched over "easily" considering I was hesitant to join him in the first place.
Why not ask him to explain further then and the base whether you want to vote for him on his response?It gives them less of an obligation to explain further than they "need to," making their posts intentionally vague. In my eyes, this makes them scummy, more so when their assumption or explanation is flawed.
"Immediately" is relative. One thing your votes on Rubik, Yiga and Ayano all have in common is that they were all in your first post since the wagons had formed. The Ayano one doesn't look that bad on it's own since it was your first post of the day but when you compare what it has in common with the other ones it starts to look worse. Then when you top it off with your flimsy reasoning that you think Ayano is scum because he was inactive like Storma it only looks worse.Objection.
After Storma flipped scum, I was planning on voting Keiko to pressure them to talk because they were inactive like Storma was. You beat me to the punch since you made your vote literally 3 minutes after the announcement was made. Also, "immediately" isn't really an accurate adjective to use considering I made my vote 43 minutes after your vote post. I was on the verge of falling asleep, too, but that's besides the point.
Just the idea that if person x is inactive and they flip scum then person y must also be inactive if they're scum isn't really much of a reason. Ayano is experienced so I doubt he would plan for the entire mafia team to be quiet day one as it would basically be shooting themselves in the foot. I do think being inactive itself looks bad, but I don't think that connecting the two because one flipped scum and they were both inactive is good reasoning.but I'd like to hear why you think my reasoning for it is flimsy since you just repeated what I said and didn't explain why.
Since scum knows who and isn't scum they may make a post like that to try to seem "surprised" when people flip. It's not always a scumtell but it just feels like something scum might try to look better.Do you think I would be that stupid to say this out loud if I was scum?
I just went back and re-read and you did end up responding. Idk how I missed that when I was re-reading, my bad.Also, @Bok Chan Sama remind me when you made your post about my suspicions of you? I'm having trouble finding it, but to answer anyway, my overall suspicions of you can be summarized as "just a hunch," like I said in my reads list. My reasoning against you isn't that strong, after all, so I won't be advocating for a lynch unless something more suspicious happens.
Does anyone have any idea how we get sent to limbo? I'm worried mafia may have a role that could prevent people from returning to the last level if they kill themselves. Idk if they could target more than one person but that's a possibility to be wary of. Also we'd be splitting people up and it would take another day to reach DS3 (which I still think is unlikely that we'll all make it there anyways). Only thing to really do is send people back to "confirm" the kill. We'd also be splitting up the town players to do this so it's a bit of a gamble who we pick to go back. I'll think of this more and let you know my thoughts.Oh right, the other thing! What are we going to do with whoever gets lynched today? Do we send people to go back and kill them? If so who? Do we implore the vig to kill them? We might not have a vig of course but would it be a bad idea to try? Assuming nothing happens I suppose we’d just send people.
Could you explain why you're voting for them?unvote, vote: ayano keiko
On a side note, I kinda miss the energy you had during D1. It was pretty fun to see.I was gonna do a reads list earlier for the heck of it and then forgot so I guess I’ll do it now.
Town:
Minish- Pretty clear town Minish here, think I’ve already reasoned about it.
Doc: Beginning was a bit weird but he doesn’t strike me as the type to go straight for the bus on day one when it wasn’t necessary. Only town lean I’ve got with hard evidence really.
Bok- I don’t trust my ability nor just about anyone else’s to catch you as scum so I’m basically just gonna think of you as town to stay sane. Typical town Bok as far as I can tell.
Rubik- Don’t trust my ability to read you either, would like recent thoughts @Rubik
Null:
Rag- You’re kind of here, but need more thoughts, I don’t think you’ve posted a reads list and I would really appreciate one. @Ragnarokio
Karu- Considering she posted right at the end of the day so it’s clear to see she was around but made no attempt to save storma or post anything of substance I could see it as either not knowing what’s going on or posting just for sake of showing she had the ability to save storma but did not in an attempt to disassociate with the lynch.
Ayano- Inactive @Ayano Keiko
Scum lean:
Hylian- I don’t like the extreme difference in activity from this game and x men. Will research that more but I want him as the counterwagon to Ryu. I shouldn’t even have put him under scum lean really it’s just a hunch.
Ryu- Me no like, reasons have been explained already.
My inner gut tells me it is a lot more likely that one of Rubik and Bok is mafia with someone below than it is for both mafia members to be in the null/scum lean.
This reads list is really bleh tbh, I should’ve done one when I was fired up.
Vote: Hylian
@DekuNut or @Storm can I get a vote count please?
I don't have anything close to solid against you that would put you as either scum or neutral. The suicide offer and me trying to interpret the motive behind it was more speculation on my part.Curious about this. Day one you said I was you're third most suspicious read but now you have me as town above 2 scum leans and 2 null leans. Do you feel better about me now or worse about other people? And what brought about this change if you feel better about me?
It doesn't seem like you read further on than this when you made this point. I addressed this by explaining why I agreed with funnier6's points:I just don't see the difference between day one in this game and day on in a normal game. You even said in that post you linked that day one follows standard mafia day settings. I guess you;re saying because of what happens in the later days once we enter the dream tat made you change this policy? I still don't really see how what may happen in later days in this game affects whether or not we should lynch on day one or not.
In the IRC games I used to play before, many people were comfortable revealing night info because it not only solidified their alignment, it helped Town figure out whether or not it would be a good idea to Lynch or No Lynch. D1 usually ends with a No Lynch in my games. Obviously, those games weren't as serious or slow-paced as these forum games because no one here thinks or plays like that. The meta here seems to be that giving Mafia even the slightest edge is a disadvantage to Town whether that be No Lynching D1 or revealing night info the following days.
Reread my post and the quotes I used from funnier6 and let me know if you're still confused.I mention some of this in my Inception rule analysis, but considering the nature and theme of this game and based on the Inception rules, there are possibly roles or modifiers created exclusively for this game that give both Town and Mafia certain perks. Otherwise, it would be pretty stacked against Mafia due to Town's extra win condition of reaching Dreamscape 3- AKA Day 4. Since no one wants to reveal roles and powers unless absolutely necessary, we have to rely on deductions and interpretations based on prior knowledge from previous games. No game I've ever played before has had special rules or conditions like this, so therefore, it seemed necessary to me to change my approach and take it more seriously. That is why I thought we should try lynching someone D1, and why I agreed with funnier6's points.
Well, I was hesitant. I explained why I said this when Rubik asked me.Your reasons weren't your own though, they were funniers. And I would hardly say you were hesitant considering you voted for him in your next post after funnier voted for Rubik.
I guess I could have done that in retrospect... you have a point here.Why not ask him to explain further then and the base whether you want to vote for him on his response?
It does look bad, I'll admit that. The only thing I can do here is repeat the fact that I don't take opportunistic votes. If someone makes a good point or if my suspicions lead me to a certain person, that's how I'll vote."Immediately" is relative. One thing your votes on Rubik, Yiga and Ayano all have in common is that they were all in your first post since the wagons had formed. The Ayano one doesn't look that bad on it's own since it was your first post of the day but when you compare what it has in common with the other ones it starts to look worse. Then when you top it off with your flimsy reasoning that you think Ayano is scum because he was inactive like Storma it only looks worse.
I didn't say Ayano or the Mafia purposefully stayed quiet. I said here that the Mafia were probably trying to figure out the rules and their roles in the private discussions. It could be that some of the members (like Storma) were too preoccupied with their daily life to read-through the main thread and make posts, but that's just speculation. I understand now why you say my reasoning is flimsy.Just the idea that if person x is inactive and they flip scum then person y must also be inactive if they're scum isn't really much of a reason. Ayano is experienced so I doubt he would plan for the entire mafia team to be quiet day one as it would basically be shooting themselves in the foot. I do think being inactive itself looks bad, but I don't think that connecting the two because one flipped scum and they were both inactive is good reasoning.
There is a scumtell I've seen (and done, admittedly) in my IRC games that's exactly how you describe this. I forget what it's called, though.Since scum knows who and isn't scum they may make a post like that to try to seem "surprised" when people flip. It's not always a scumtell but it just feels like something scum might try to look better.
I forgive ya. You're pursuing me pretty aggressively, so it's understandable that you'd remember some posts wrong.I just went back and re-read and you did end up responding. Idk how I missed that when I was re-reading, my bad.
I'm still waiting for Doc to make a post. Even after looking at the options, it still sounds strange to me that Doc would bus Storma considering the only vote Doc had on his wagon was from funnier6.Storma was probably a sinking ship at this point no matter what. Doc had nothing to lose by bussing him and a lot to gain no matter what the outcome was. I'm not saying this is a guarantee, but you guys are letting him off way too easily in my opinion.
I don't really like the idea of everyone killing themselves, and here's why:Honestly this may sound crazy but since we hit scum day one and the only way I know of actually killing scum is to kill them in the real world it might be a better option for everyone to just kill themselves and to play the game in the real world. I assume the mafia is able to send people to limbo by night killing them. Sending them back one level would pretty much just confirm that person as town and wouldn't really help the mafia at all. They would be left hunting dreamers, trying to get everyone back while town just climbed levels and got closer to DS3. Feels like it would just be one giant stalemate. Also splitting up the players means potentially having one group of players that is all town which would only hurt our chances of winning since there's no chance of hitting scum in that group. I know we can win by reaching DS3 but it feels like mafia benefits from everyone being in the dream world more than town does, especially since we can only actually lynch people by being in the real world. Also if the dreamer comes out and claims dreamer for that day and no one counter claims then it's basically a cop check since only town can be the dreamer. We don't have to do this today since we can wait and see if the NK actually sends us to limbo but I want everyone's thoughts on whether it's worth it and why this may or may not be a terrible idea.
Do you really believe that's all that will happen? Won't that just clear whoever gets sent back that day as town? It feels like nightkills from the mafia will be sent to limbo but I could be wrong. It just seems useless for the mafia to only be able to send one person back a level every night. Also unless we figure out a way to kill people for good in dreams (aka limbo) we're going to have to send people back to the real world with them and finish them off. It's going to take those people who get sent back another day to reach ds3 and give the mafia even more time to pick us off one by one. If we keep sending people back it just makes it take longer to reach our goal and if we don't send people back then we might as well not lynch people if we're not going to bother sending people back to finish them off. I think not lynching people is a mistake though which is why based on my current understanding of the game and what I assume will happen with the night kills, it makes more sense to play the game from the real world.lso, players that are nightkilled get simply sent back a layer or to the real world if they aren't blocked from doing so.
Do you think the Mafia would risk a coin toss between two wagons that would determine the fate of their own Chemist?
No idea. Probably a flavour name. could be something akin to poisoner if I had to guess.Is Chemist a common role or something?
Except if the dreamer is town and they commit suicide the dream collapses and everyone goes back a level.@Bok: If we all commit suicide (and scum doesn't) we won't be able to lynch scum anymore and we'll lose the game, as far as I can tell.