Does the Original Master Sword Exist in Wind Waker?

[TheBlueReptile]

I do think WW Master Sword is a new one. Now that we know how the sword was created and how it gained it's power, it conflicts with how WW MS gets it's power. SS and OOT is a sword that doesn't need constant prayer for it to have it's powers, TP Master Sword already was fully powered, and as important neither in OOT or TP are sages of earth and wind, those sages only task is to pray for the MS. Another obvious fact is that Ganondorf just doesn't fear the sword at all even if it easily destroyed him earlier he recognizes it doesn't have any of it's original power. It could also very well explain why is it that Ganondorf returned, the seal that held Demise's remains and his power that are linked to him disappeared, due to Zelda's reckless decision of sending Link back to the time before the whole adventure

The sages role was something I was going to bring up following OniLink's post. People seem to think that the sages in OoT and WW have the same role, yet I think they are an entirely different set of sages and have done even before I thought up this theory. Take this for example, in OoT for a sage to be awakened they need to die in the physical world first. For some reason people seem to miss this but in every temple there is the indication that the sage has died following your encounter with the boss. This is especially evident in the Fire Temple were Darunia tells you he will take on Volvagia and then completely disappears never to be seen again until he is awakened as a sage. We also see the kokiri boy and King Zora presumably grieving together during the end cutscene jsut before the lights of the sages pass over them.

During WW however, the process of being awakened as a sage is vastly different. They are very well aware of their role whilst being mortal and never have to undergo any kind of trial first. They are also shown to reside inside the temple in a physical form while they pray to the gods. We also see the past sages in 'the afterlife' which, if they were already spirits whilst performing their duties, would not be a problem. Ganondorf is shown to kill a sage in Twilight Princess, however this sages death seems to have the undertone of everlasting destruction on a more spiritual level rather than the physical destruction of a person. Similarly, despite the destruction of one of the sages, the Master Sword is shown to be as powerful as ever without the need to awaken a new sage.

The sages in WW seem to play much less of a role in the managing of the sacred realm/Hyrule etc than the sages of OoT do and it is this that makes me think that the original sages didn't have a role in the maintenance of the Master Swords power

 

[Onilink89]

I do think WW Master Sword is a new one. Now that we know how the sword was created and how it gained it's power, it conflicts with how WW MS gets it's power. SS and OOT is a sword that doesn't need constant prayer for it to have it's powers, TP Master Sword already was fully powered, and as important neither in OOT or TP are sages of earth and wind, those sages only task is to pray for the MS. Another obvious fact is that Ganondorf just doesn't fear the sword at all even if it easily destroyed him earlier he recognizes it doesn't have any of it's original power. It could also very well explain why is it that Ganondorf returned, the seal that held Demise's remains and his power that are linked to him disappeared, due to Zelda's reckless decision of sending Link back to the time before the whole adventure

Did you really even bother by reading my posts? Or was i now clear enough to make my point.

Like i said before, in SS the sword was blessed by zelda and then the sword gained its shine and opened its wings. In other words, why do you need prayers when the goddess directly blessed the sword? Lets think a little further with logic. Zelda is the goddess, but still a mortal. The power to repel evil may have been gone after she died. And even if you are trying to make a direct connection, don't we saw zelda go to the sky and earth temple playing the harp? Pretty much like the wind and earth temple in WW?

Then in WW it is explained by Fado that the Sages were playing/doing their prayers and Call upon the Gods to maintain the power of the master sword. And the King of Red lions was the one who was conducting those Sages with the WW.

As for OOT and TP. I don't exactly know why the master sword still has the power to repel evil. But if we look back to the explaination in WW, we see that there are Sages in OOT and TP. You see the connection i'm trying to explain.

Your statement that the sages of the earth and wind temple are the only ones to maintain its power. Tell me if i missed something, but were do you base on that. Like i said before to others. What are your arguments to support that statements?
Lets say your statement is true, we know we didn't saw the earth and wind temple in OOT or TP right? But that does not mean that those two temple's did not excist during that time? Didn't have to, beacuse the purpose of OOT and TP link was entirely different from WW link.

So....why does it conflict? I actually gave you 5 logical explainations supported by actuall facts of the games and pointing out logical indications/connections, in this post only. Now this is theorizing, and not just telling ideas or thoughts without arguments to support your statements.

 

[TheBlueReptile]

As for OOT and TP. I don't exactly know why the master sword still has the power to repel evil

Could it not be that awakening the sages is actually adding power to your sword in OoT? They never did fully explain the medallion system and the sages do 'power up' your sword before you can defeat Ganon.

But yeah, like I said in my last post, there is a sage missing in TP and yet the sword still works fine. I still don't think the seven sages play a role in the master swords power though. For reasons I've already explained.

 

[Ronin]

No matter what...there can only be one Blade of Evil's Bane. So it is the original. But you have raised some interesting questions. If Link decided not to go back to his child form then he likely kept the Master Sword until his death. Then the MS was retrieved and hidden beneath Hyrule Castle; soon after floodwaters rained from the heavens and covered Hyrule, though more like a blanket since it's not awash by the deluge. Below the castle it lay dormant until Link's cel-shaded form came across it and found it powerless.

I have yet to see how the Master Sword gains its power to begin with, so I'll leave someone with more knowledge on that subject to it. But the Master Sword we see throughout each title is one and the same (ALttP doesn't count; that was probably some discoloration glitch), and will always be the same one, until a title comes out where Evil's Bane was shattered and we need to reforge it. An interesting game concept.

 

[Dio]

It's exactly the same sword. The design is just different so to fit into the toon look of the game. The master sword in SS and TP is nearly as long as link is tall, Link from WW is a young child and would therefore be shorter and unable to wield a sword that is for adults. The master sword went through allot of purifying to get it to be able to defeat demise. No other sword will ever compare to it's power and therefore no replica should be able to be made. The master sword is the master sword.

 

[TheBlueReptile]

If Link decided not to go back to his child form then he likely kept the Master Sword until his death.

Not entirely sure what you're getting at here. It almost sounds like you seem to think that Adult Link existed in the Adult Timeline following him being sent to the child timeline....
Once Ganon was defeated, Link can't have interacted with the Master Sword again. In the Adult timeline he didn't exist anymore (which is what caused me to question whether the original master did as well) and in the Child Timeline he left it in the PoT where it was sealed away.

No matter what...there can only be one Blade of Evil's Bane.

OK. So if there can only ever be one, how is there one in both the Child and Adult timeline?
This comment doesn't really do anything to disprove the theory. Rather it works quite in it's favour, as if it was true there was a time in the Adult timeline where there was no Master Sword at all and the Child Timeline housed the original. Thus, a new one had to be forged in order to seal Ganon's magic.

 

[Locke]

OK. So if there can only ever be one, how is there one in both the Child and Adult timeline?
This comment doesn't really do anything to disprove the theory. Rather it works quite in it's favour, as if it was true there was a time in the Adult timeline where there was no Master Sword at all and the Child Timeline housed the original. Thus, a new one had to be forged in order to seal Ganon's magic.

That's the same one. The two instances are its extent on the probability axis (fifth dimension). It's just like looking along the time axis (fourth dimension). You see a thing at one moment, and then you see it again at a later moment - it's still the same thing, but at a different point along its 'timeline'. So one Master Sword can exist along a fifth axis and appear in several separate and/or parallel 'timelines'.

 

[TheBlueReptile]

If it is the same Master Sword following it's own timeline among two parallel universes, then surely one event in one timeline would affect it in the same way in the other timeline. Giving the impression that such symptoms occurred for no reason in the timeline unaffected by the event...

So, by that logic, when Toon Link removed the Master Sword from it's pedestal and released Ganon's magic in the Adult Timeline, a similar if not identical effect was achieved in the Child Timline. Perhaps this may have had something to do with the "Divine prank" in Twilight Princess?

This is what happens when I try and get sciency

 

[oracleofcanada]

i support a youtube theorist named lancun on this most think the split happens at the end of Oot but maybe it accutally happens when you first pull the master sword thus splitting it in two ( kind of like a clone if you will or a twin) because see link is always going back therefore the adult timeline startes halfway through the game and the child timeline is broken up over time as if time just stops in any case thats my theory. (or at least the one that i find most valid.) because it explains the master swords being in two places at one (or two times at once) and the triforc is bound to the sacred realm where i guess time has no effect. so that explains it being in like 7 games at once you know?

 

[TheBlueReptile]

i support a youtube theorist named lancun on this most think the split happens at the end of Oot but maybe it accutally happens when you first pull the master sword thus splitting it in two ( kind of like a clone if you will or a twin) because see link is always going back therefore the adult timeline startes halfway through the game and the child timeline is broken up over time as if time just stops in any case thats my theory. (or at least the one that i find most valid.) because it explains the master swords being in two places at one (or two times at once) and the triforc is bound to the sacred realm where i guess time has no effect. so that explains it being in like 7 games at once you know?

THat's an interesting theory and certainly one I've haven't seen before.
However, if child Link and Adult Link are operating on separate timelines throughout the entire game, then some things would be unexplained. For example, the magic seed plants, the song of storms, the silver gauntlets etc. They all exist on both timelines and are acquired through the interaction between Link's past and present. If they were in separate timelines, these kind of things wouldn't be possible.

 

[oracleofcanada]

THat's an interesting theory and certainly one I've haven't seen before.
However, if child Link and Adult Link are operating on separate timelines throughout the entire game, then some things would be unexplained. For example, the magic seed plants, the song of storms, the silver gauntlets etc. They all exist on both timelines and are acquired through the interaction between Link's past and present. If they were in separate timelines, these kind of things wouldn't be possible.

well i didnt think of that really but the magic beans were more of a player tool like the howling stones from tp in a way the silver gauntlets were never said to be in both seeing as link took them as a child and we have no real proof that they were there in the future and the song of storms already is a confusing time paradox in its own. but i can see the point your making and it is definetly a valid one

 

[Medri]

It is the Master Sword. It just needed to be Rekindled from years of stagnation.

The size of it is irrelevant because of art style.

 

[oracleofcanada]

It is the Master Sword. It just needed to be Rekindled from years of stagnation.

The size of it is irrelevant because of art style.

i dont think you quite understand the question. hes asking if the master sword original was in ww because it was also in tp and the by the most common timeline take place on opposite sides

 

[Red Baron]

There are many flaws and illogical things with the split timeline. According to OOT, link's spirit is trapped for 7 years, so basicly adult link is his own timeline. He's only going back and forth in his own time and not leaping from one timeline to an other. Thats why i think that the whole split timeline is illocial. Still nintendo confirmed this split timeline and more questions popped up.

Sorry to get a bit off topic here. You assume the time-line split happens as soon as Link pulls the Master Sword. The split happens when Zelda sends Link back in time at the end of the game. This is a different process from using the door of time.


Back on topic. What sounds more unlikely: that a time-travel related mistake removed the master sword from the timeline and a replica is created (none of this alluded to), or that Link left the Master Sword in the future? (remember he was sent back by Zelda to before he ever pulled the sword). At the time WW was made, the Master Sword was said to have been created by ancient sages (same as was said in OoT), so the Earth and Wind sage plot in WW made sense at the time. Now that has been changed (the forging story), but does it completely rewrite the existence of the Master Sword in WW? I don't think so.

 

[TheBlueReptile]

Back on topic. What sounds more unlikely: that a time-travel related mistake removed the master sword from the timeline and a replica is created (none of this alluded to), or that Link left the Master Sword in the future?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ge8zd1ZR-hc
Watch at around the 3:20 mark.
He didn't leave the Master Sword anywhere.