Does the Original Master Sword Exist in Wind Waker?

[TheBlueReptile]

Wind Waker gets more than it's fair share of crtisism based on the length of the Master Sword since Ocarina of Time. People can't seem to get their heads round the shortening process.

But recently I got thinking. If in OoT Link was sent to the child timeline, what happened to the Master Sword that went with him? As we know, the triforce seperated from him and thus was hidden in shards, however that is the triforce. Could the Master Sword have logically seperated from him without us seeing it fall to the ground or something during that ending cutscene? If so, then how could he haved placed the sword back in the pedestal in the child timeline?

My idea behind this is that the Master Sword we see in Wind Waker is a different sword entirely. Forged perhaps by human hands, which would explain why sages were needed in order to pray and constantly renew its power.

Thus, the reason for its huge change in length is explained if this theory is correct.

However, it's been a while since I played WW. So I can't remember if it is hinted that the hero of time held that very same blade or not. If so, could that not merely have been a part of the legend that has been confused or forgotten?

 

[Locke]

I've never seen the length of the MS questioned... It's just a design necessity to be wielded by toon/child Link.

Link didn't actually take the MS back in time with him in OoT. The MS you see him putting back in the PoT at the end as a child is the same MS he had pulled from the PoT as a child the previous moment (looking at the timeline objectively, not from Link's perspective). So it's still there in the future.

 

[TheBlueReptile]

Link didn't actually take the MS back in time with him in OoT. The MS you see him putting back in the PoT at the end as a child is the same MS he had pulled from the PoT as a child the previous moment (looking at the timeline objectively, not from Link's perspective). So it's still there in the future.

I've seen this idea bounced around before. I don't agree with the whole 'child Link never weilds the master sword' idea. But even assuming it is true, it doesn't explain where the adult version of the master sword goes. Link has pulled it out of the pedestal already so it is no longer in the temple of time and we are given no indication that it even stays in that universe.

 

[Blue Window]

The Master Sword in WW is the Master Sword from OoT.

From Wind Waker
You got the Master Sword! The legendary blade with the power to repel evil...once wielded by the legendary hero himself!

This means that Link must have left the Master Sword on the AT at the end of OoT.

/Blue Window

 

[JuicieJ]

What are you talking about? It's absolutely the same sword. It's the Blade of Evil's Bane, just as Blue Window pointed out. The smaller design was to fit Toon Link's size.

 

[SS,OoT,WW,TP]

No timeline stuff is involved with the master sword being small in TWW, they just shrinked the master sword so it would be the right size for toon link.

 

[TheBlueReptile]

but you guys still haven't addressed how it exists. If Link left with it when Zelda sent him back in time, how was it still in that timeline?

My guess, like I said is that a new one was secretly forged, and with the passing of generations the fact that it wasn't the original blade was lost to history.

Anyone got anything that could prove/disprove this? Saying "of course it's the same blade!" doesn't convince me I'm afraid.

 

[Pseudocide]

it is due to the fact that the master sword is "the ship that travels the river of time" or w/e. when zelda sent link back she then put it in the PoT to "seal" the "rift" between worlds causing the split timeline. ie. kid link couldn't get into the temple of time to get the master sword anymore and there was no adult link to draw it and so it sat in the PoT until events in WW.

to summarize. it exists in both timeslines due to its nature as a timestream manipulation device similar to the timestones in SS

 

[TheBlueReptile]

it is due to the fact that the master sword is "the ship that travels the river of time" or w/e. when zelda sent link back she then put it in the PoT to "seal" the "rift" between worlds causing the split timeline. ie. kid link couldn't get into the temple of time to get the master sword anymore and there was no adult link to draw it and so it sat in the PoT until events in WW.

to summarize. it exists in both timeslines due to its nature as a timestream manipulation device similar to the timestones in SS

Interesting. What is it in-game that confirms this though? I can remember the explanation of it being a ship that travels the river of time thing, but nothing else.

 

[Blue Window]

The original Master Sword did end up on the AT, as well as the CT, which means that it must have left Link at some point.

The only other glimpse we have at the Master Sword (or, a Master Sword) is when Link comes back to the CT ands stands before it. This must obviously be the CT Master Sword, so what could have happened to the AT Master Sword between Link flew away in a blue light and appeared in another blue light on another timeline?

We do have one very important clue to what happened to the AT Master Sword: Zelda

All the tragedy that has befallen Hyrule was my doing... I was so young...I could not comprehend the consequences of trying to control the Sacred Realm. I dragged you into it, too. Now it is time for me to make up for my mistakes... You must lay the Master Sword to rest and close the Door of Time...However, by doing this, the road between times will be closed...Link, give the Ocarina to me... As a Sage, I can return you to your original time with it.

These lines have been debated countless times, but in essence: if she is talking about the AT Master Sword, then Link put it back before he went to he CT, while if she is talking about the CT Master Sword, then Link went back to the CT, put the sword back and ended up in the blue light in front of the Master Sword (the same which he returned).

/Blue Window

 

[TheBlueReptile]

The original Master Sword did end up on the AT, as well as the CT, which means that it must have left Link at some point.

The only other glimpse we have at the Master Sword (or, a Master Sword) is when Link comes back to the CT ands stands before it. This must obviously be the CT Master Sword, so what could have happened to the AT Master Sword between Link flew away in a blue light and appeared in another blue light on another timeline?

We do have one very important clue to what happened to the AT Master Sword: Zelda

These lines have been debated countless times, but in essence: if she is talking about the AT Master Sword, then Link put it back before he went to he CT, while if she is talking about the CT Master Sword, then Link went back to the CT, put the sword back and ended up in the blue light in front of the Master Sword (the same which he returned).

/Blue Window

That just brings about as many questions as it answers XD
For me, it seems more like she is talking about placing the Master Sword back in the Child Timeline. Of course, I always got the impression that Zelda didn't know that a separate timeline would be created. However, if she did, why would she knowingly send away Link to a parallel timeline without some back-up plan to ensure the Master Sword didn't follow?

 

[Onilink89]

There are many flaws and illogical things with the split timeline. According to OOT, link's spirit is trapped for 7 years, so basicly adult link is his own timeline. He's only going back and forth in his own time and not leaping from one timeline to an other. Thats why i think that the whole split timeline is illocial. Still nintendo confirmed this split timeline and more questions popped up.

but you guys still haven't addressed how it exists. If Link left with it when Zelda sent him back in time, how was it still in that timeline?

My guess, like I said is that a new one was secretly forged, and with the passing of generations the fact that it wasn't the original blade was lost to history.

Anyone got anything that could prove/disprove this? Saying "of course it's the same blade!" doesn't convince me I'm afraid.

I agree that people should not disapprove theories so easly without any good arguments or indications.

But the same goes for you of course. I don't see any good strong arguments to support your theory. The only indication you give is the lenght of the sword, which meant to match the style of the game.

SS only explains how the master sword was made. But in the game we see that zelda (a.k.a the goddess) has blessed the sword to achieve its ultimate form.

In WW we see the similair thing, when the sword opens its wings and regains its glow and all. So my only logical guess that in WW the master sword was just weakened and the only way to maintain its power was the prayers from the sages.

 

[TheBlueReptile]

I agree that people should not disapprove theories so easly without any good arguments or indications.

But the same goes for you of course. I don't see any good strong arguments to support your theory. The only indication you give is the lenght of the sword, which meant to match the style of the game.

Well apart from what little I have given, I don't have any strong arguments. Which is why I made the thread, to get opinions from other people. I wouldn't accept people simply saying "Of course this theory is true" either. However I haven't yet had that problem

You're idea behind the prayers is a good one. However, why would the sword have lost/started losing its power in the first place? My initial thoughts are an attack from Ganon, however surely had he of had the chance he would have ensured it was utterly destroyed.

 

[Onilink89]

Well apart from what little I have given, I don't have any strong arguments. Which is why I made the thread, to get opinions from other people. I wouldn't accept people simply saying "Of course this theory is true" either. However I haven't yet had that problem

You're idea behind the prayers is a good one. However, why would the sword have lost/started losing its power in the first place? My initial thoughts are an attack from Ganon, however surely had he of had the chance he would have ensured it was utterly destroyed.

Actually, its not an idea, but rather a fact. The King of Red Lions crearly explained in the game that without the prayers of the sages, it does not have the power to repel evil.
And since the old sages died, the Master Sword lost its power. In this game, it is explained the first time that the Sages had also an other task besides being a guardian of a temple.

Fado the kokiri sage explains that the wind waker was used to conduct the sages and played their song to call upon the gods. And the it was the King himself who was the conducting the sages.

And your initial thoughts is not so misplaced...well sorta. The cause was indeed ganondorf, but he did not did something to the sword directly. Instead, he killed the Sages, this is actually stated in the game by Fado.

Lets look back in the other titles:
As for OOT. The only active Sage in OOT at the very beggining is Rauru.
There are also Sages in TP, at arbiter grounds.

 

[ganonlink1991]

I do think WW Master Sword is a new one. Now that we know how the sword was created and how it gained it's power, it conflicts with how WW MS gets it's power. SS and OOT is a sword that doesn't need constant prayer for it to have it's powers, TP Master Sword already was fully powered, and as important neither in OOT or TP are sages of earth and wind, those sages only task is to pray for the MS. Another obvious fact is that Ganondorf just doesn't fear the sword at all even if it easily destroyed him earlier he recognizes it doesn't have any of it's original power. It could also very well explain why is it that Ganondorf returned, the seal that held Demise's remains and his power that are linked to him disappeared, due to Zelda's reckless decision of sending Link back to the time before the whole adventure