- Joined
- Aug 4, 2009
A Creator wouldn't do that though. He wouldn't screw everything up on purpose...
A Creator wouldn't do that though. He wouldn't screw everything up on purpose...
- Joined
- May 16, 2008
- Location
- Kentucky, USA
The only reason I don't believe everything Miyamoto says is, well in this instance, there are far more things leaning towards ALttP being a prequel, while the only bit of evidence to support the Miyamoto Order is the fact that Miyamoto said it. I haven't heard one good argument from the connectivity of the games themselves that would cause ALttP to be after LoZ/AoL, while all other titles are considered, other than the fact that Miyamoto said so. And as much as I listen to developer quotes (because they are usually correct), Miyamoto stated himself once that he was more into the gameplay aspect of the series than the stories themselves.
If you want someone to give you insight into the stories of the games, which would be a much better person to consult regarding timelines, then you would look to a guy like Aonuma, who has been in charge of the storylines since either OoT, MM, or both. His specific job is to create these stories. Miyamoto just wants to create innovative gameplay. It makes sense to me that consulting Miyamoto on a timeline subject would not be the best of sources to go to considering this.
Aonuma, on the other hand, has never been wrong thus far in making a quote about the timeline. He has given us the split timeline theory confirmation, he has told us where WW and TP fall on the timeline, and I believe it was him who said FS was the oldest tale. Now that part about FS is disagreeable now, since we have FSA to prove that FS comes just before it, and that FSA comes just before ALttP. However, MC was essentially the same as FS. It had Vaati, no Ganon, and the Four Sword instead of the Master Sword. Two different stories, but both contained the same basic elements that made sense for them to be first. So regardless of the fact that now FS is not first, MC is considered first for these reasons (among others), in my opinion because Aonuma said FS was and MC is relative to FS in the same reasons that once made it the first game in the timeline. Most people can agree on this and everything Aonuma has told us so far; Very few can still agree on the Miyamoto Order.
Sorry to get off on other games there, but I wasn't necessarily using them to support any timeline idea, just to note that Aonuma's quotes are most always backed up perfectly with in-game evidence; While Miyamoto's Order's biggest piece of evidence is he said so, which is not a good piece of evidence. He said so has to come with something in the game that would make it valid or it just can't be valid.
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2009
That's a very good argument. Hmmm... I think I'll change some stuff around then. Still, even though ALttP should come before, I still can't place it because of the SW. I might have to include the SW in my timeline.
Erimgard
Even Ganon loves cookies
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- East Clock Town
I despise this argument.
Miyamoto is not a mental patient. Therefore if he says something about his video game series, and never takes it back, there's no reason to assume he's wrong.
Unless the game completely contradicts him...which it does...
angelkid
TRR = SWEET
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2009
I've seen Zemen use this argument before aswell, and I have to say. I LOVE THIS ARGUMENT. It works. 100%. Also, no one can ever contradict it. Their only response is always just something about how Miyamoto wouldn't be that stupid, but the point of the argument is that, HE ALREADY HAS. Just not to quite as higher a degree.
Seriously Zemen. That argument is just like an epic insta-win.
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- Hyrule and Azeroth
Because from that point on, he would be Fred. And if he said that all previous Link's were actually Fred's then canonically Link would be Fred.
You're saying that if god came and said that cats never existed and he then changed time so that cats never existed, you wouldn't believe him?
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- Kentucky, USA
That's not even close to being a similar argument. That would be compared to Miyamoto searching out and destroying every single copy and piece of evidence of previous Zelda games, somehow finding a way to wipe everyone's memory of its existence, and starting over with a new Hero named Fred. That is what would be comparable to your statement, Sign.
What Zemen says is correct. You can't change whats already been done, unless you retcon it. And it sure seems to me that the Miyamoto Order has been retconned. Actually, it never really made sense in the beginning, so I don't see why so many in-depth theorists argue for it. What the developer says is correct WHEN it makes sense. And no, if Miyamoto decided to name Link, Fred, and say that Link was never a part of Zelda, that would be wrong. Just like when you look at the evidence from the games, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for the Miyamoto Order to be correct.
Is anyone forgetting that Miyamoto has always been more into the gameplay development than the storyline? Has it not occurred to anyone that Miyamoto could have not been thinking accurately about the timeline during this interview? I mean think about it. Miyamoto knew they were creating the first story in the series with Ocarina of Time. That is the only thing he has ever stated, OUTSIDE of the obviously incorrect Miyamoto Order, that he knows about anything Timeline related. What if he didn't know the answer so he just stated what he knew, then filled the rest in chronologically? Because that's what he did. He said OoT was first, then he listed them in the order of their release. He said LA could come anywhere because he wasn't involved in its development enough to know anything about it at all. He even stated in an interview that he enjoys playing LA more than any other Zelda (interview was taken during the time of WW's release), because there is so much that he doesn't know about it and he likes to "look for that 'Zelda Feel'", which implies feeling of playing the game.
Everyone thinks just because Miyamoto created Zelda that he knows it inside and out, and that's not true. Miyamoto is interested in the elements of the game. He hires other people to make up the stories. Its that simple. Listen to Aonuma and forget the Miyamoto Order because otherwise your going to be looking for answers that have already been answered the other way around.
C
Caleb, Of Asui
Guest
Okay, seeing as we mostly agree with LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA, and everyone's freaking out about the Miyamoto Order, we'll move on. Don't worry, DarkLink, the thread isn't flawed. We decided earlier that the Miyamoto Order was correct at the time, and we're getting close to the point where it (possibly) reverts back to normal.
OoX Discussion Closed
7-8. Oracle of Seasons and Ages
- Discussion Closed -
Conclusion: They were originally planned as remakes of the original two, with expanded story. Plans were changed and they're still no longer remakes, but it still stands that it continues after the story of The Adventure of Link, and doesn't fit quite so well anywhere else.
Order so Far: OoT/MM--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA--ALttP/LA
9. Four Swords
- Skipped Temporarily -
Reason: Four Swords was essentially implacable at this point, and not necessarily canon, but will be both pretty soon.
BIG NOTE: This is the complicated part where the split comes in. Even though it was only a theory at the time, we are going to go with it because it has since been confirmed by Nintendo and, after all, the theory DID exist at the time.
10. The Wind Waker
- Skipped -
Reason: The prospect of the split timeline places this game for us.
Order so Far:
....../--TWW
OoT
......\MM--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA--ALttP/LA
10.5 Miyamoto Order Revisited
- Current Discussion -
Details: The Legend of Zelda and The Adventure of Link were placed to coincide with the Miyamoto Order because it "bridges" the Seal War in Ocarina of Time to A Link to the Past (exact details are a little complicated); however, The Wind Waker makes it clear that Nintendo no longer intends for Ocarina of Time to be the Seal War. We no longer need the first two games to be a "bridge," so do we follow all existing evidence and move them back to where they originally belonged? (Probably yes.)
First Possibility (Stay the Same):
....../--TWW
OoT
......\MM--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA--ALttP/LA
Second Possibility (Original Order Applies):
....../--TWW
OoT
......\MM--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA
ANOTHER NOTE: I can't edit the first post to update it for some reason. I'll try looking into this, but please proceed[/continue] MO discussion. [Honestly, this one should be pretty short.]
OoX Discussion Closed
7-8. Oracle of Seasons and Ages
- Discussion Closed -
Conclusion: They were originally planned as remakes of the original two, with expanded story. Plans were changed and they're still no longer remakes, but it still stands that it continues after the story of The Adventure of Link, and doesn't fit quite so well anywhere else.
Order so Far: OoT/MM--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA--ALttP/LA
9. Four Swords
- Skipped Temporarily -
Reason: Four Swords was essentially implacable at this point, and not necessarily canon, but will be both pretty soon.
BIG NOTE: This is the complicated part where the split comes in. Even though it was only a theory at the time, we are going to go with it because it has since been confirmed by Nintendo and, after all, the theory DID exist at the time.
10. The Wind Waker
- Skipped -
Reason: The prospect of the split timeline places this game for us.
Order so Far:
....../--TWW
OoT
......\MM--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA--ALttP/LA
10.5 Miyamoto Order Revisited
- Current Discussion -
Details: The Legend of Zelda and The Adventure of Link were placed to coincide with the Miyamoto Order because it "bridges" the Seal War in Ocarina of Time to A Link to the Past (exact details are a little complicated); however, The Wind Waker makes it clear that Nintendo no longer intends for Ocarina of Time to be the Seal War. We no longer need the first two games to be a "bridge," so do we follow all existing evidence and move them back to where they originally belonged? (Probably yes.)
First Possibility (Stay the Same):
....../--TWW
OoT
......\MM--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA--ALttP/LA
Second Possibility (Original Order Applies):
....../--TWW
OoT
......\MM--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA
ANOTHER NOTE: I can't edit the first post to update it for some reason. I'll try looking into this, but please proceed[/continue] MO discussion. [Honestly, this one should be pretty short.]
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- May 16, 2008
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- Kentucky, USA
Okay, so we can talk about games that have been covered already, correct? Or use them as leverage to support placement. That was my main concern, that because discussion was closed on one game, that mean it could not be talked about anymore. In that respect, the thread would be flawed. However, if we can talk about each and every game that comes into play, then that will work out perfectly. I'm thinking we can, therefore (obviously) I'm going to choose the second possibility.
....../--TWW
OoT
......\MM--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA
OoT No Longer the Seal War
Now, we know that WW broke OoT as the SW. This makes OoT's connection to ALttP pretty weak. There is now virtually no connection between OoT and ALttP, other than the fact that similar events occurred in the BS of ALttP as did in OoT. However, with WW, we know these events were NOT the same.
Having gotten that out of the way, we now also know that the Seal War had to be a separate event. When we look at ALttP's BS and in-game details, we find that the same stuff applies from SNES to GBA version (look on page 4, my post with the green highlighted portions of quotes, for details). A war broke out in Hyrule because people were frantically searching for the Triforce, or the entrance to the Sacred Realm (SR). Eventually, Ganondorf (the man, not yet the beast) found this entrance. He went in, wished on the Triforce (which did NOT split), and transformed the SR into the Dark World as well as a mirror image of Hyrule itself, all its inhabitants into evil creatures, and Ganondorf himself into the beast known as Ganon. Ganon then did not come out of the SR, as it was sealed by the Sages, and remained in there until the events of ALttP, when he ultimately died in there.
Placement of the Seal War
In order for the SW to happen at any point in time, we know at this point that it HAS to come after OoT. It also HAS to come on the CT, as Hyrule is flooded on the AT. Last, but definitely not least, we know that it HAS to occur during a time when Ganondorf was still a man. This would place it after OoT, MM, and before ALttP.
Different Events on the AT and CT
Now being that WW branches off from the events of Ganondorf's defeat and sealing, we know that on the CT, these events did not take place. Something else had to happen, which we will come to later on exactly what happened as shown in TP. How do we know that the same events did not happen? By looking at the remaining games. We know that ALttP, LoZ, AoL, and OoX all take place in Hyrule. This land was flooded and washed away forever in WW. Therefore, we know that these games have to come on the CT, and we know that Hyrule did not get flooded on this side, and ultimately that the events of the AT were not the same as the CT in the fact that Ganondorf did not succeed in taking over Hyrule on the CT.
Ganondorf's Immortality
We cannot assume that Ganondorf was able to live long enough from the events of OoT to the Seal War. He had to have some outside means of staying alive. Knowing this, and seeing that he lived for over 100 years in from OoT to WW on the AT, we can assume that he did enter the SR on the CT still, obtained the Triforce of Power, yet was not successful in taking over Hyrule. We know what happened because TP tells us, but again, at this point, we will just say he did not succeed in taking over. But my own personal theory is that he did obtain the Triforce.
My reasoning for this is Link being sent back to his time is controversial, but he was sent back while the Door of Time was open. This had to be a time when he had obtained all three stones. Keeping in mind the general beliefs of time travel, if you were looking at Child Link pull the MS out, you would see him pull the MS out, then just a short time later, you would see him return from the future. This would mean that Ganondorf would have time to enter, steal the ToP, and escape while Link was frozen in time. After he pulled the MS out, and before he returned from the future. Again, this would be the only way to explain Ganondorf being able to stay alive from OoT to the SW, since we do not know how long Gerudos live and can only assume that they live the normal length of humans (excluding Twinrova, of course).
Why LoZ/AoL Cannot Be Before ALttP
Now, there still remains the question of why LoZ can't be before ALttP. And I know people will still try to argue it. So let me give a few points to counter those arguments.
In LoZ, we see Ganon (beast mode), with possession of the ToP. Some try to say that he can change from Ganondorf to Ganon at will, as we have seen him do it in other games like OoT. However, his transformation from Ganondorf to Ganon is much different than his solid Ganon form we see in LoZ and ALttP. Nintendo themselves even knew this, as they wrote it in ALttP. ALttP clearly gave us insight into Ganondorf's history, and how he became stuck in the form of Ganon. I gave that history above, highlighted in green. Therefore, since he is in this form in LoZ, and the time that he became this form was during the SW, And the fact that he did not leave the SR from the time of the SW to ALttP, we must clearly see that ALttP is a prequel.
LoZ only states that Ganon stole the Triforce of Power. This happened in OoT for the first time. There is nothing to say that he could not have lost it, and captured it again. This is why LoZ's BS is its downfall, as it does not reference any other game in particular. The most solid piece of evidence is that Ganon is in his pig form, which I explained above why that means ALttP has to be a prequel.
In the end, you would have:
....../--TWW
OoT
......\MM--(SW)--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoX
....../--TWW
OoT
......\MM--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA
OoT No Longer the Seal War
Now, we know that WW broke OoT as the SW. This makes OoT's connection to ALttP pretty weak. There is now virtually no connection between OoT and ALttP, other than the fact that similar events occurred in the BS of ALttP as did in OoT. However, with WW, we know these events were NOT the same.
Having gotten that out of the way, we now also know that the Seal War had to be a separate event. When we look at ALttP's BS and in-game details, we find that the same stuff applies from SNES to GBA version (look on page 4, my post with the green highlighted portions of quotes, for details). A war broke out in Hyrule because people were frantically searching for the Triforce, or the entrance to the Sacred Realm (SR). Eventually, Ganondorf (the man, not yet the beast) found this entrance. He went in, wished on the Triforce (which did NOT split), and transformed the SR into the Dark World as well as a mirror image of Hyrule itself, all its inhabitants into evil creatures, and Ganondorf himself into the beast known as Ganon. Ganon then did not come out of the SR, as it was sealed by the Sages, and remained in there until the events of ALttP, when he ultimately died in there.
Placement of the Seal War
In order for the SW to happen at any point in time, we know at this point that it HAS to come after OoT. It also HAS to come on the CT, as Hyrule is flooded on the AT. Last, but definitely not least, we know that it HAS to occur during a time when Ganondorf was still a man. This would place it after OoT, MM, and before ALttP.
Different Events on the AT and CT
Now being that WW branches off from the events of Ganondorf's defeat and sealing, we know that on the CT, these events did not take place. Something else had to happen, which we will come to later on exactly what happened as shown in TP. How do we know that the same events did not happen? By looking at the remaining games. We know that ALttP, LoZ, AoL, and OoX all take place in Hyrule. This land was flooded and washed away forever in WW. Therefore, we know that these games have to come on the CT, and we know that Hyrule did not get flooded on this side, and ultimately that the events of the AT were not the same as the CT in the fact that Ganondorf did not succeed in taking over Hyrule on the CT.
Ganondorf's Immortality
We cannot assume that Ganondorf was able to live long enough from the events of OoT to the Seal War. He had to have some outside means of staying alive. Knowing this, and seeing that he lived for over 100 years in from OoT to WW on the AT, we can assume that he did enter the SR on the CT still, obtained the Triforce of Power, yet was not successful in taking over Hyrule. We know what happened because TP tells us, but again, at this point, we will just say he did not succeed in taking over. But my own personal theory is that he did obtain the Triforce.
My reasoning for this is Link being sent back to his time is controversial, but he was sent back while the Door of Time was open. This had to be a time when he had obtained all three stones. Keeping in mind the general beliefs of time travel, if you were looking at Child Link pull the MS out, you would see him pull the MS out, then just a short time later, you would see him return from the future. This would mean that Ganondorf would have time to enter, steal the ToP, and escape while Link was frozen in time. After he pulled the MS out, and before he returned from the future. Again, this would be the only way to explain Ganondorf being able to stay alive from OoT to the SW, since we do not know how long Gerudos live and can only assume that they live the normal length of humans (excluding Twinrova, of course).
Why LoZ/AoL Cannot Be Before ALttP
Now, there still remains the question of why LoZ can't be before ALttP. And I know people will still try to argue it. So let me give a few points to counter those arguments.
In LoZ, we see Ganon (beast mode), with possession of the ToP. Some try to say that he can change from Ganondorf to Ganon at will, as we have seen him do it in other games like OoT. However, his transformation from Ganondorf to Ganon is much different than his solid Ganon form we see in LoZ and ALttP. Nintendo themselves even knew this, as they wrote it in ALttP. ALttP clearly gave us insight into Ganondorf's history, and how he became stuck in the form of Ganon. I gave that history above, highlighted in green. Therefore, since he is in this form in LoZ, and the time that he became this form was during the SW, And the fact that he did not leave the SR from the time of the SW to ALttP, we must clearly see that ALttP is a prequel.
LoZ only states that Ganon stole the Triforce of Power. This happened in OoT for the first time. There is nothing to say that he could not have lost it, and captured it again. This is why LoZ's BS is its downfall, as it does not reference any other game in particular. The most solid piece of evidence is that Ganon is in his pig form, which I explained above why that means ALttP has to be a prequel.
In the end, you would have:
....../--TWW
OoT
......\MM--(SW)--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoX
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2009
- Location
- Hyrule and Azeroth
It's one of the stupidest arguments I've ever seen, actually. Not only is it completely ridiculous, but if the ZD community wasn't so hypocritical they would all change their timeline to a singular timeline.
Guess what? Aonuma's statement about the split timeline is contradicted by the Legend of the Fairy in TWW, which is a game. Aonuma can't take back and destroy all those copies of TWW so the Legend of the Fairy must be more canon than anything he can say. So I guess you should change your timeline to a linear one, amirite? Or is that one of the most completely ********, fallacious, stupid, ridiculous, insane, terrible, and dumb things you've ever heard? Both your argument, and this one use the exact same thought process. Both are 100% stupid.
And how did the Miyamoto order not make sense? Remember that terrible Triforce gap between OoT and LttP?
@All you ridiculously literal theorists: How does the AoL BS work on the CT at TWWs release?
Guess what? Aonuma's statement about the split timeline is contradicted by the Legend of the Fairy in TWW, which is a game. Aonuma can't take back and destroy all those copies of TWW so the Legend of the Fairy must be more canon than anything he can say. So I guess you should change your timeline to a linear one, amirite? Or is that one of the most completely ********, fallacious, stupid, ridiculous, insane, terrible, and dumb things you've ever heard? Both your argument, and this one use the exact same thought process. Both are 100% stupid.
It was true in 1998, however.
What god says is truth, is truth. Sorry.
And how did the Miyamoto order not make sense? Remember that terrible Triforce gap between OoT and LttP?
If god spent more time working on life on Earth, than creating the Earth itself, god would still be correct about everything pertaining to the planet Earth (I'm not religious, I'm just saying).
Doesn't matter if he knows how everything used to be before he makes his statements. Miyamoto(/Aonuma) = god of the Zelda Universe. What Miyamoto says retcons all previous statements and quotes, as he is god, and what god says is the truth is the truth. Period.
Prove that OoT CAN'T be the SW. TWW didn't make it impossible, as in 1998 there still had to be a game between OoT and LttP.
Then why does Zelda react to you the EXACT SAME WAY at the end of the game as when you first meet her (and she never reacts that way at any other part in the game)
@All you ridiculously literal theorists: How does the AoL BS work on the CT at TWWs release?
angelkid
TRR = SWEET
- Joined
- Apr 19, 2009
Why is everything with you about god? No, what god says is not truth. If god came to me and said 'your name is David.' That does not make my name David. My name is Conor, and it never will be David. Also, what you said about if god said cats never existed ad he went back in time and erased cats, not only is this a terrible example as it is a different argument to the one that Zemen gave. However, that would not mean that cats never existed. I would still know that I had two pet cats who god just randomly decided to tell me didn't exist when I knew for a fact they did, lets not go further into that though, because that creates a paradox.
Also, your comparisons between Miyamoto and god are awful. Miyamoto is not god at all when it comes to Zelda, he is the creator, but he is FAR too human to ever be considered any kind of god. Why does being human mean he isn't god? Humans make mistakes! Just as Miyamoto has on SEVERAL ocassions. He is not interested in the timeline aspects of Zelda anyway. That's like me (to use your crappy god analogies) saying to god 'so, mars?' and let's say for arguments sake that god didn't create mars, and him being like 'yeah mars well it's blue.' Should I trust his judgement? No, because he doesn't get involved in mars, that's someone elses job and I can clearly see with my own eyes that mars is red. However, again a paradox so let's not take that further.
You cannot compare Miyamoto to god.
Also, your comparisons between Miyamoto and god are awful. Miyamoto is not god at all when it comes to Zelda, he is the creator, but he is FAR too human to ever be considered any kind of god. Why does being human mean he isn't god? Humans make mistakes! Just as Miyamoto has on SEVERAL ocassions. He is not interested in the timeline aspects of Zelda anyway. That's like me (to use your crappy god analogies) saying to god 'so, mars?' and let's say for arguments sake that god didn't create mars, and him being like 'yeah mars well it's blue.' Should I trust his judgement? No, because he doesn't get involved in mars, that's someone elses job and I can clearly see with my own eyes that mars is red. However, again a paradox so let's not take that further.
You cannot compare Miyamoto to god.
- Joined
- May 16, 2008
- Location
- Kentucky, USA
Which would be what? I don't remember this story.
Pay attention to my posts. You might figure something out.
No it doesn't. Sorry. Comparing Miyamoto to God is really getting you no where in this argument. He is the guy who thought up the idea of the Zelda games. Since then he's hired many, many people to write the stories and do the work for him so he doesn't have to and he has been quoted as being more involved in the gameplay. I've said this like a thousand times already and you seem to completely miss it or something.
Understand that part first, then work on the fact that Miyamoto doesn't have to know anything big about the timelines in general. Or just read my last post and figure it out. I gave reason for this and I'm not going to waste time by re-quoting my entire last post.
Once again, read my last post. It would be really helpful because that way, you wouldn't be asking questions I've already answered.
So what? She turns around and acts surprised. Are we supposed to believe that every single small emotion that is reused is the same event? No. It doesn't have to be.
How doesn't the AoL BS work? It can fit anywhere after ALttP or OoX.
- Joined
- Aug 4, 2009
Okay. Here me out on this one. It's a pretty good idea if I do say so myself.
Even thought WW split the timeline, it wasn't the first to do so. MM was. Think about it. ALttP, LoZ, and AoL all focused off the Adult ending, but MM was the only one that focused on the child ending. So, in reality, the timeline should've looked like this at MM's release:
----/--ALttP--LoZ/AoL
OoT
----\MM
And then WW split the timeline again, pushing this:
------/--WW
-----/
----/--ALttP--LoZ/AoL
OoT
----\MM
Now, personally this solves alot of plotholes. OoT can still be the SW for ALttP, and all the others still flow with their respective stories. And if you were to go further, you could say that ALttP, TP, and WW were all parallel to each other.
Is this probable? I don't know. NIntendo has stated that two timelines exist, but what if there's really three? I just thought I would bring this up for the sake of discussion.
--
But as far as the new ordering goes, I have to go with DL.
Even thought WW split the timeline, it wasn't the first to do so. MM was. Think about it. ALttP, LoZ, and AoL all focused off the Adult ending, but MM was the only one that focused on the child ending. So, in reality, the timeline should've looked like this at MM's release:
----/--ALttP--LoZ/AoL
OoT
----\MM
And then WW split the timeline again, pushing this:
------/--WW
-----/
----/--ALttP--LoZ/AoL
OoT
----\MM
Now, personally this solves alot of plotholes. OoT can still be the SW for ALttP, and all the others still flow with their respective stories. And if you were to go further, you could say that ALttP, TP, and WW were all parallel to each other.
Is this probable? I don't know. NIntendo has stated that two timelines exist, but what if there's really three? I just thought I would bring this up for the sake of discussion.
--
But as far as the new ordering goes, I have to go with DL.
Last edited:
I always have fun with your posts. They give me a good chuckle.
Well I can honestly say I have no idea what story you are talking about but it sounds to me like it's a side quest or add on to the game that doesn't pertain to the main story in any way. I am talking about ALTTP as a whole whereas you are trying to argue something that seems to be unknown to most people.
Miyamoto is a real person. God is a theory. Let's try and use real world/existing analogies as that might actually hold some ground in this argument. God is a 3000 year old theory. Miyamoto is a (insert his age here) proven to be in existence person. Don't make analogies where half of it is something that you don't even know exists. My argument involves someone who actually exists.
Yay I get to use my argument again! You're one of those people who would start calling Link, Fred, if Miyamoto told you that Link was Fred all along. You hate this argument so much, yet everything you says just backs up the fact that you completely agree with it and that is the stance you would take. He can't go and erase every copy of the series that calls Link, Link. No matter what he says, we all know there are games where he is called Link. You can call him Fred all you want, but he WAS Link no matter what Miyamoto says. No matter what Miyamoto says, the original box for ALTTP clearly calls Link and Zelda predecessors. His words don't magically change that. The retcon doesn't make the Miyamoto timeline any more correct. He is wrong. The game has done a fantastic job of proving that.
The fact that ALTTP has been retconned, and still has more evidence for it to be a prequel is a good indication that Miyamoto was wrong.
DL has given all the evidence for ALTTP to be a prequel.
This is the evidence for it to go after LoZ/AoL. Because Miyamoto said so.
I think I'll take "game creators who don't know what they're talking about" for 500, Alex.
This is the one thing I agree on. It appears to me that Link shows up to the time just before he meets Zelda. It looks to me like Zelda is in the spot she was when she first meets you and right before your about to see Ganondorf through the window. I don't believe that Ganondorf stole the ToP for TP. I think he got it by other means that he doesn't even know about.
Well I can honestly say I have no idea what story you are talking about but it sounds to me like it's a side quest or add on to the game that doesn't pertain to the main story in any way. I am talking about ALTTP as a whole whereas you are trying to argue something that seems to be unknown to most people.
Miyamoto is a real person. God is a theory. Let's try and use real world/existing analogies as that might actually hold some ground in this argument. God is a 3000 year old theory. Miyamoto is a (insert his age here) proven to be in existence person. Don't make analogies where half of it is something that you don't even know exists. My argument involves someone who actually exists.
Yay I get to use my argument again! You're one of those people who would start calling Link, Fred, if Miyamoto told you that Link was Fred all along. You hate this argument so much, yet everything you says just backs up the fact that you completely agree with it and that is the stance you would take. He can't go and erase every copy of the series that calls Link, Link. No matter what he says, we all know there are games where he is called Link. You can call him Fred all you want, but he WAS Link no matter what Miyamoto says. No matter what Miyamoto says, the original box for ALTTP clearly calls Link and Zelda predecessors. His words don't magically change that. The retcon doesn't make the Miyamoto timeline any more correct. He is wrong. The game has done a fantastic job of proving that.
The fact that ALTTP has been retconned, and still has more evidence for it to be a prequel is a good indication that Miyamoto was wrong.
DL has given all the evidence for ALTTP to be a prequel.
This is the evidence for it to go after LoZ/AoL. Because Miyamoto said so.
I think I'll take "game creators who don't know what they're talking about" for 500, Alex.
This is the one thing I agree on. It appears to me that Link shows up to the time just before he meets Zelda. It looks to me like Zelda is in the spot she was when she first meets you and right before your about to see Ganondorf through the window. I don't believe that Ganondorf stole the ToP for TP. I think he got it by other means that he doesn't even know about.