A ZD Timeline Project

[Hayzer]

Caleb's picture is more evidence to support LoZ/AoL-ALttP/LA-OoX. At the end of ALttP Link has the full triforce, or at least the triforce is whole. Whereas at the end of AoL, the triforce is still seperated. I'd say this is just more evidence to support the OoX after ALttP oprion.

Umm, what?

In AoL, the Triforce is separated in Hyrule castle. In OoX, the Triforce is separated... in Hyrule Castle. How does that support ALttP--OoX?

 

[MrMosley]

Umm, what?

In AoL, the Triforce is separated in Hyrule castle. In OoX, the Triforce is separated... in Hyrule Castle. How does that support ALttP--OoX?

The Triforce is NOT separate in AoL. It comes together at the end. And the fact that its not setting there as one unit at the beginning of OoX doesn't mean anything either. Its still together. And the order of ALttP--OoX doesn't make sense because there's nothing to show or say the the Triforce was brought out of the Sacred Realm after ALttP.

 

[Hayzer]

The Triforce is NOT separate in AoL. It comes together at the end. And the fact that its not setting there as one unit at the beginning of OoX doesn't mean anything either. Its still together.

My point being this:
It's all together at the end of AoL in three separate pieces.

It's still all together in three separate pieces at the beginning of OoX

In the end of ALttP it is together in one piece.

There's more evidence for it going LoZ/AoL--OoX, than ALttP/LA--OoX.

EDIT: Didn't realize you were against ALttP--OoX. But my post still says the same thing.

 

[MrMosley]

My point being this:
It's all together at the end of AoL in three separate pieces.

It's still all together in three separate pieces at the beginning of OoX

In the end of ALttP it is together in one piece.

There's more evidence for it going LoZ/AoL--OoX, than ALttP/LA--OoX.

EDIT: Didn't realize you were against ALttP--OoX. But my post still says the same thing.

I was talking about the very end of AoL. After the credits, the Triforce is shown all together. Whether that is anything important or canon or not is irrelevant. The point I'm trying to make is that it doesn't necessarily matter if the Triforce is together but separate, together and together, two inches apart, whatever, its still either together or completely separate. You either have the Triforce in the same location, within three people, or like we have seen in LoZ/AoL, strone throughout Hyrule in different locations altogether. Nitpicking the exact look of the Triforce doesn't help anything, but looking at its location from game to game can help in some instances. Location of the Triforce cannot be used as a solid, #1 piece of evidence towards a timeline, but it can be a supporting piece of evidence with larger pieces.

Which is why I have said in a few of my previous posts that I consider the true order ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoX. Aside from my evidence, the Triforce placement between those games also can make sense. But yeah seemingly we agree on the general LoZ/AoL--OoX piece. But the thing is it matters much more that the Triforce is now together, in Hyrule, than in the Sacred Realm or split up. Because now, of course, most likely case is for the Royal Family to take the Triforce and place it in Hyrule Castle, which is what we see some generations after AoL, that it is still there.

 

[Hayzer]

I was talking about the very end of AoL. After the credits, the Triforce is shown all together. Whether that is anything important or canon or not is irrelevant. The point I'm trying to make is that it doesn't necessarily matter if the Triforce is together but separate, together and together, two inches apart, whatever, its still either together or completely separate. You either have the Triforce in the same location, within three people, or like we have seen in LoZ/AoL, strone throughout Hyrule in different locations altogether. Nitpicking the exact look of the Triforce doesn't help anything, but looking at its location from game to game can help in some instances. Location of the Triforce cannot be used as a solid, #1 piece of evidence towards a timeline, but it can be a supporting piece of evidence with larger pieces.

Which is why I have said in a few of my previous posts that I consider the true order ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoX. Aside from my evidence, the Triforce placement between those games also can make sense.

I agree with LoZ/AoL--OoX, but not with ALttP coming before. Right now the timeline stands as OoT/MM--LoZ/AoL--(OoX)--ALttP--(OoX)--LA--(OoX) in this topic. We're not discussing the placement of ALttP anymore.

So, I know where I stand.

We gotta get more people in this discussion...

 

[MrMosley]

I agree with LoZ/AoL--OoX, but not with ALttP coming before. Right now the timeline stands as OoT/MM--LoZ/AoL--(OoX)--ALttP--(OoX)--LA--(OoX) in this topic. We're not discussing the placement of ALttP anymore.

So, I know where I stand.

We gotta get more people in this discussion...

Which is why I don't partake in this discussion as much as I did at first, and probably a good reason why a lot of other people don't as well. ALttP coming before LoZ/AoL is something that I consider on my timeline, so I can't argue in favor of anything else here. Hopefully it will change so the discussion can get back to more than two or three people.

By the way, if discussion on ALttP is completely closed at this point, then this entire thread is flawed. There's absolutely no way you can solidify one game in connection with only a few others, then not be able to change it later on. I sure hope that discussion is not closed on previous games because just as the series has done, things change when new games come out. OoX has reasons, for me, to make ALttP a prequel. TP has even more reasons and if we can't re-argue ALttP's placement based on these games when they crop up in the discussion, then I'm done with it. If we can't argue that because the discussion about ALttP was two topics ago, then there's no point in this thread. Its not a fair representation of ZD's core theorists beliefs because a lot of the big theorists on this site believe ALttP as a prequel and use later games as support of that.

 

[angelkid]

I agree with LoZ/AoL--OoX, but not with ALttP coming before. Right now the timeline stands as OoT/MM--LoZ/AoL--(OoX)--ALttP--(OoX)--LA--(OoX) in this topic. We're not discussing the placement of ALttP anymore.

So, I know where I stand.

We gotta get more people in this discussion...

No, the order is OoT/MM--(OoX)--LoZ/AoL--(OoX)--ALttP/LA--(OoX)

Which is why I don't partake in this discussion as much as I did at first, and probably a good reason why a lot of other people don't as well. ALttP coming before LoZ/AoL is something that I consider on my timeline, so I can't argue in favor of anything else here. Hopefully it will change so the discussion can get back to more than two or three people.

By the way, if discussion on ALttP is completely closed at this point, then this entire thread is flawed. There's absolutely no way you can solidify one game in connection with only a few others, then not be able to change it later on. I sure hope that discussion is not closed on previous games because just as the series has done, things change when new games come out. OoX has reasons, for me, to make ALttP a prequel. TP has even more reasons and if we can't re-argue ALttP's placement based on these games when they crop up in the discussion, then I'm done with it. If we can't argue that because the discussion about ALttP was two topics ago, then there's no point in this thread. Its not a fair representation of ZD's core theorists beliefs because a lot of the big theorists on this site believe ALttP as a prequel and use later games as support of that.

I agree. I still think it's stupid to have ever put LoZ/AoL before ALttP, I am 100% in support of the game box that stated ALttP featured a Link that was a predecessor of the LoZ/AoL Link.

To close the discussion on all the earlier games would be, very very stupid, and I too would be out of the topic.

 

[Erimgard]

Actually, it's very good that you bring that up, Erimgard. I didn't know that the Triforce actually comes together at the end of The Adventure of Link (it being the only one I haven't beaten :S). So, both Adventure of Link and A Link to the Past end with a wish on the Triforce. So, the question really is, what is the nature of the Triforce, as far as where it goes once it has been touched? We need for it to remain in Hyrule before the Oracle games start.

Edit: I hate how I can freeze this topic so easily. Please, keep talking! What happens to the Triforce when someone touches it?

In Adventure of Link, the curtain falls down, so we don't know.

In aLttP, Link leaves the Sacred Relam, and his wish was apparently the restoration of Hryule, as all those who perished are back. He's not shown to have taken the Triforce out of the Sacred Realm.

In Wind Waker, it flies away.

All we have in terms of in-game text is that when a wish is made on the Triforce, the Triforce will fulfill all the wish/es in the heart and mind of the one who touched it, based on the expression of their wish, at the time of them touching it. No one else can touch it until they die. Whether they can then keep it with them or not...we don't know.

Because of the Triforce disappearing in WW, some people believe that it magically returns to the Sacred Realm. This isn't stated in any text, but it's a possibility.

I see the Triforce flying away in Wind Waker as a fulfillment of the King's wish. He wished for Hyrule to be washed away, and it was. Then he wished for a hope for the future for the children, and the Triforce flew away at that point. I don't want to get too into WW at this time, since that's not part of the thread yet, but I just want to point out that the only evidence for the Triforce returning to the Sacred Realm upon a wish is that scene in WW, which I don't believe is by any means ironclad.

 

[Hayzer]

I am 100% in support of the game box that stated ALttP featured a Link that was a predecessor of the LoZ/AoL Link.

Yeah, even though the packaging was retconned many years later BY THE CREATOR OF THE GAMES.

Food for thought.

 

[startimer]

Me? well, i have some, er, different opinions. i currently support Loz/AoL-OoX/La, but that isnt debatable here. of what we have to choose from, i'd say Second Possibility: OoT/MM--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA--ALttP/LA

Thats just my opinion. personnally i am always changing my opinion about the placement of the oracle games (not two long ago i had OoX-MC-OoT) and will probably change my opinion again soon so please dont rebute my theory i only half believe it myself, and i dont plan to take a major part in this debate until we get a few more games on the table

 

[MrMosley]

Yeah, even though the packaging was retconned many years later BY THE CREATOR OF THE GAMES.

Food for thought.

It was taken off the box, not retconned. Would it make sense to call the Link and Zelda of ALttP "predecessors" long after all these Zelda games are made? No. Especially not when a lot of them come before or on a different timeline altogether from ALttP. They had to change it because now it doesn't make sense, but then it did because there was only one Link and Zelda prior to ALttP. Well, two if you count the sleeping Zelda and the one from LoZ.

I've played both the SNES and GBA versions of ALttP, and many things were changed. The SNES had a longer manual backstory and a different box description. I explained the box above and the manual can be contributed to the GBA usually shortening any manual story. Hell, have you seen the manual for SNES ALttP?! Its pretty thick. But none of this changed the story. No matter what they took out or replaced, the same general story is there. It still tells the history of the Triforce and Ganon, which doesn't perfectly explain the events of LoZ but give reason as to why things are the way they are in Hyrule.

 

[Hayzer]

It was taken off the box, not retconned. Would it make sense to call the Link and Zelda of ALttP "predecessors" long after all these Zelda games are made? No. Especially not when a lot of them come before or on a different timeline altogether from ALttP. They had to change it because now it doesn't make sense, but then it did because there was only one Link and Zelda prior to ALttP. Well, two if you count the sleeping Zelda and the one from LoZ.

I've played both the SNES and GBA versions of ALttP, and many things were changed. The SNES had a longer manual backstory and a different box description. I explained the box above and the manual can be contributed to the GBA usually shortening any manual story. Hell, have you seen the manual for SNES ALttP?! Its pretty thick. But none of this changed the story. No matter what they took out or replaced, the same general story is there. It still tells the history of the Triforce and Ganon, which doesn't perfectly explain the events of LoZ but give reason as to why things are the way they are in Hyrule.

You missed my point. It was retconned by Miyamoto's quote, not the GBA remake.

 

[Zemen]

You missed my point. It was retconned by Miyamoto's quote, not the GBA remake.

I actually think you missed the point. The game was already made. The box was already made. Why would Miyamoto's quote be stronger than what the game, itself, tells us. I have always said this before, and this is my theory on the games and creator quotes.

If the game says one thing and the creator says something different, then take the games word, because at the end of the day the game can't change its mind.

If Miyamoto announced tomorrow that the hero of the series wasn't Link, but rather a boy names Fred, would you believe him just because he is the creator of the series? We have games that specifically call the hero Link. Him deciding that the hero is really Fred doesn't automatically change every game so that instead of "Link" they say "Fred"

Same thing applies here. The box says that ALTTP is supposed to be a prequel. Just because Miyamoto says it goes after LoZ/AoL doesn't change the fact that the box tells us otherwise. Part of the story of the game completely contradicts that. The only thing the retcon did was take out that bit about Link and Zelda in ALTTP being the other Link and Zelda's predescessors and it has been explained a post or 2 ago why it was taken out...because it wouldn't make sense. There are so many Links and Zeldas now that putting that word would just confuse people as to which ones they are referring to. They completely made the game and there is absolutely no evidence for it being a sequel to LoZ/AoL but we still have that evidence from back in the day (and original intent) for it to be a prequel to LoZ/AoL.

 

[Hayzer]

I actually think you missed the point. The game was already made. The box was already made. Why would Miyamoto's quote be stronger than what the game, itself, tells us. I have always said this before, and this is my theory on the games and creator quotes.

If the game says one thing and the creator says something different, then take the games word, because at the end of the day the game can't change its mind.

If Miyamoto announced tomorrow that the hero of the series wasn't Link, but rather a boy names Fred, would you believe him just because he is the creator of the series? We have games that specifically call the hero Link. Him deciding that the hero is really Fred doesn't automatically change every game so that instead of "Link" they say "Fred"

Same thing applies here. The box says that ALTTP is supposed to be a prequel. Just because Miyamoto says it goes after LoZ/AoL doesn't change the fact that the box tells us otherwise. Part of the story of the game completely contradicts that. The only thing the retcon did was take out that bit about Link and Zelda in ALTTP being the other Link and Zelda's predescessors and it has been explained a post or 2 ago why it was taken out...because it wouldn't make sense. There are so many Links and Zeldas now that putting that word would just confuse people as to which ones they are referring to. They completely made the game and there is absolutely no evidence for it being a sequel to LoZ/AoL but we still have that evidence from back in the day (and original intent) for it to be a prequel to LoZ/AoL.

Nintendo. That's why. What the Creator says goes. It's like saying God vs. his creation. God wins. Everytime.

 

[Zemen]

Nintendo. That's why. What the Creator says goes. It's like saying God vs. his creation. God wins. Everytime.

You pretty much just said that if Miyamoto announced tomorrow that Link is really Fred, you would agree with him and Link would cease to exist to you.