A ZD Timeline Project

[Caleb, Of Asui]

The "a ZD Timeline Project", this thread, an attempt to come up with something of a "community timeline", so to speak. The current discussion is about whichever game is labeled below as Current Discussion. Please try to refrain from using evidence from Zelda games released after the one in question. (Some games will be skipped, since some placements need not be discussed. Reasons will be given.) Below is the list of Zelda games already existing in the current discussion. When a general consensus is reached, I will update this post and make a note of the change of discussion within the thread.





1. The Legend of Zelda
- Skipped -
Reason: Being the first game, there are no other games to compare it to.
Order so Far: LoZ

2. The Adventure of Link
- Skipped -
Reason: It is obviously a direct sequel to The Legend of Zelda.
Order so Far: LoZ/AoL


3. A Link to the Past
- Discussion Closed -
Conclusion: It was meant to explain the backstory before The Legend of Zelda.
Order so Far: ALttP--LoZ/AoL

4. Link's Awakening
- Skipped -
Reason: It is obviously a direct sequel to A Link to the Past. There is some small debate over whether or not it actually is, but it doesn't effect much to be worth adressing.
Order so Far: ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL

5. Ocarina of Time
- Skipped -
Reason: It is obviously before everything so far. Nobody's about to say otherwise.
Order so Far: OoT--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL

5.1 Miyamoto Order
- Discussion Closed -
Details: We hit a snag when the creator came out with an order contradicting what we already have. He says OoT--LoZ/AoL--ALttP, with LA going anywhere.
Conclusion: Ocarina of Time was originally meant as the Seal War, with The Legend of Zelda as a lesser part of it, explaining what happens to the Triforce. At least, this was true at the time.
Order so Far: OoT--LoZ/AoL--ALttP/LA

6. Majora's Mask
- Skipped -
Reason: It is obviously a direct sequel to Ocarina of Time.
Order so Far: OoT/MM--LoZ/AoL--ALttP/LA

7-8. Oracle of Seasons and Ages
- Current Discussion -
First Possibility: OoT/MM--OoS/OoA--LoZ/AoL--ALttP/LA
Second Possibility: OoT/MM--LoZ/AoL--OoS/OoA--ALttP/LA
Third Possibility: OoT/MM--LoZ/AoL--ALttP/LA--OoS/OoA

 

[Erimgard]

At the time of 1993, I'd say it was still debatable, but in favor of aLttP-LoZ-AoL.

This timeline was marketed in America (although the NoA localization head at the time, Dan Owsen, claimed there was no timeline) and the Japanese may have implied it as well.

The Japanese box for aLttP (called Triforce of the Gods in Japan) stated that "This time the stage is set long before Link accomplished a feat, the epoch when Hyrule was one country".

Thus, one must define "the stage is set". Does this mean that the game itself takes place "before Link accomplished a feat"? Or does this mean that the backstory for the game (the very first thing we read when we open the manual or start the game) is "the stage" that is set long ago?

I was also once told (though I don't know how reliable the source) that the line could be translated "this time the stage is set before Link will accomplish a feat"...again open to the interpretation of whether this means "aLttP takes place when Hyrule was one country, before LoZ" or "the backstory for this game takes place long ago when Hyrule was one country"

I'm conflicted on the issue.
The manual seems to read like a mixture of the "omniscient narrator" and his point of view, coupled with ancient Hylian writings. The nature of the manual, it's implied that he's telling this during the start of aLttP.

The manual ends with him saying "but recently " and leading into the events of Aganhim's silent takeover. This implies that everything he's mentioned in the manual thus far takes place before aLttP.

At one point in the manual, however, he states (of Ganon) "at that time the king of evil Ganon was born, the one who has threatened Hyrule". The only existing games to this point (the only times where Ganon could have threatened Hyrule) are LoZ/AoL.

Thus we have a game with a strangely worded timeline indication on its original box, a definitive timeline indication on its localized box by a man who claims there is no timeline, and a manual that tells from the present tense, yet references supposedly future events as having occurred in the past.

In short...original intent is quite confusing on aLttP.
Though, all in all, the game has a feel of "origin" to it...most of these origins are references as ancient events. So again...every indication leads to a contradiction.

 

[Zemen]

You also seem to forgot to mention that the original American Box for ALTTP specifically says that it's Link and Zelda's predecessors and since there were only 2 games made before ALTTP, it's obvious this would mean it goes before those 2 games. If this is a correct translation then it's impossible to confuse the placement of the game. The newest (and now canon) version of ALTTP does not refer to them as being predecessors of Link and Zelda from LoZ/AoL. This could be for a number of reasons.

1. It could have been removed because it was a mistranslation, but if it was a mistranslation then it most likely would have been corrected with a new word instead of being taken out with nothing to replace it.

2. I find this the most likely of the 2 possibilities. They took it out because it should already be clearly established as being a prequel to LoZ/AoL so there is no need to add it in since it has already been stated long before. They were trying to add new stuff to the game so there was no need to add some old information that should already be common knowledge.

Also, the game is called A Link To The Past. It makes sense that the game deals with past events. Since there are 2 obviously connected games created before this one (LoZ/AoL), then the game could only be connected with the past of those 2 games. This also would place ALTTP before those 2 games.

I strongly believe the order is ALTTP-LoZ/AoL up to this point of the discussion.

 

[Erimgard]

You also seem to forgot to mention that the original American Box for ALTTP specifically says that it's Link and Zelda's predecessors and since there were only 2 games made before ALTTP, it's obvious this would mean it goes before those 2 games.

I didn't forget it. Didn't you read the part where I said "it was marketed as a prequel in America" ? o.0

If this is a correct translation

It's not.
I told you what the correct one was. Would you like a link?

2. I find this the most likely of the 2 possibilities. They took it out because it should already be clearly established as being a prequel to LoZ/AoL so there is no need to add it in since it has already been stated long before. They were trying to add new stuff to the game so there was no need to add some old information that should already be common knowledge.

Why would a Japanese quote by common knowledge in America if the game hadn't been released yet?

Also, the game is called A Link To The Past. It makes sense that the game deals with past events.

Again, American marketing. Again, does that refer to the fact that the backstory of the game tells of the creation of the world, or the fact that the game itself was meant to be a prequel?

 

[Zemen]

I didn't forget it. Didn't you read the part where I said "it was marketed as a prequel in America" ? o.0

Guess so.

It's not.
I told you what the correct one was. Would you like a link?

Hmmm I don't seem to recall you every saying that it was a false translation, only that it could have been a false translation, which is just a copout of actually arguing real points.

Why would a Japanese quote by common knowledge in America if the game hadn't been released yet?

I don't understand what this means. Did you read my post correctly? The original box for America called them predecessors and the newer one left it out. What does your post have to do with any of that. The original box has been around for years so for people who actually pay attention to the series, it is common knowledge what the back of that box says (about them being predecessors). I have no idea what your post is supposed to prove because it has nothing to do with my post.

 

[Erimgard]

G
Hmmm I don't seem to recall you every saying that it was a false translation, only that it could have been a false translation, which is just a copout of actually arguing real points.

The original Japanese box says:
"This time the stage is set a long time before the time when Link accomplished a feat, the epoch when Hyrule was one Kingdom"

NoA changed that to the line about you being the predecessor Link/Zelda.

 

[Zemen]

The original Japanese box says:
"This time the stage is set a long time before the time when Link accomplished a feat, the epoch when Hyrule was one Kingdom"

NoA changed that to the line about you being the predecessor Link/Zelda.

You do realize that they both say pretty much the exact same thing....

Who cares if it's not an exact translation as long as both boxes indicate where the game goes? I read what you posted about that but it doesn't matter because they both have different ways of saying "this game goes before LoZ/AoL." You're arguing someone who believes the same positioning of the game you believe. Kinda dumb if you ask me.

 

[Erimgard]

Because the Japanese box defines the "before Link accomplished a feat" era as "the time when the stage is set". Thus, does "the stage is set" refer to the game's backstory (which is the very first thing you read in both the manual and the game itself, effectively setting the stage) or the game itself?

 

[Zemen]

Moving on...

I don't think I have ever come across a person who has put ALTTP after LoZ/AoL.

 

[Erimgard]

Never met Shigeru Miyamoto I guess.
We'll get into that after Caleb adds OoT into the mix I'm sure

 

[MrMosley]

Never met Shigeru Miyamoto I guess.
We'll get into that after Caleb adds OoT into the mix I'm sure

I've never met him either, lolz.

I'll put my two cents in and agree that ALttP is a prequel of LoZ/AoL. The first two games had little backstory, and only really told what was going on at that particular point in time. There was no history of the Triforce, no history of Ganon, and really no history of Hyrule at all. ALttP is a game that is filled with tales taking place even before it, when it talks about Ganondorf as a man, who then became Ganon, and also gives the history of the Triforce. But during the game, we also see a history of how things apparently came to be in LoZ.

ALttP tells about Ganondorf going to the Sacred Realm to obtain the Triforce. There, he made his wish, and was sealed within the SR. I have heard and agree that his wish was to "rule the world". He did not specify Hyrule, but the World. The world which he was in was the SR, so it became the world in which he ruled. However, he had Hyrule in mind, so the SR became a mirrored image of Hyrule, then transformed into the Dark World, along with all of its inhabitants, as well as Ganondorf. This is the backstory covered in ALttP that tells how Ganondorf officially, and permanently, became the pig-beast known as Ganon.

In that case, it would only make sense to come before LoZ. Ganondorf was sealed in the SR the entire time, from the moment he touched the Triforce, to the moment Link defeated him in ALttP. Ganon is present in LoZ, with his base in Death Mountain. If LoZ was to come before ALttP, the main boss would have been Ganondorf, the man, not the beast. And I know some people will try and argue that he can transform at will into Ganon. That is a failed arguement. He doesn't stay transformed at any point in which he becomes his beast form during the games that he uses that power. After ALttP, he became stuck in his new form.

 

[angelkid]

Though I may not be a great Time-line theorist, seeing as i've been a member of this site for a while now, I have gained some experience and knowledge of the timeline. I would also agree that ALttP comes before LoZ/AoL. For the reason being that ALttP tells us how Ganon comes to be and suggests there is no way he could have been around before so I think ALttP would have to be a prequel.

Another reason being that the words 'past' and 'Link' are in the mix. I think this is deffinately hinting that the game focuses on, what would be considered a past Link as the only other Link we had seen was the LoZ/AoL. This is therefore more evidence that it must be a prequel.

 

[Skull_Kid]

As I am sure that someone mentioned above, the SNES ALttP manual is NO LONGER canon, and is completely and fully retconned.
Thus, now the name "A Link to the Past" is just that: a name, without any other meaning.

Still, I still think that LoZ and AoL are on the same timeline side as ALttP just with LA in between, and maybe OoX, even thouhg OoX also fit after AoL

 

[Erimgard]

As I am sure that someone mentioned above, the SNES ALttP manual is NO LONGER canon, and is completely and fully retconned.
Thus, now the name "A Link to the Past" is just that: a name, without any other meaning.

Still, I still think that LoZ and AoL are on the same timeline side as ALttP just with LA in between, and maybe OoX, even thouhg OoX also fit after AoL

Well remember we're only supposed to be discussing the material at hand. Thus, we're discussing where aLttP was supposed to be in 1993, when all we had was LoZ, AoL, and SNES aLttP.

 

[Hayzer]

I'm still in favor of the order they were released. Having not actually played the game, my comments can be easily faulted, but I still put ALttP AFTER LoZ and AoL.