Fraxinus
chunky plant goop
Characters are a channel through which a world is examined. They help paint the world; they are part of the world. The world should be primary, the characters secondary imo.
Zelda What-Ifs
- Thread starter Uwu_Oocoo2
- Start date
Mikey the Moblin
if I had a nickel for every time I ran out of spac
nah, nah, nah, you can't spin it like that
take metroid for example. Metroid's stories are 100% environmental. There's little to no character focus involved whatsoever. Are you going to tell me metroid is bad at storytelling? You're actually just wrong here and trying to back up a bad position for... saving face or something, idk
it's not, because nobody said that good characters can't make good stories. In fact, I'm pretty sure having a protagonist is essential for a story. But it doesn't have to be about them
bringing up this random line about "oh but characters can be good!" is just irrelevant
think of all the dozens of sci-fi stories like star trek or MTG. The stories focus heavily on the locations the characters visit. Fantasy stories like star wars are more character focused, even though they're all located in space.
Mikey the Moblin
if I had a nickel for every time I ran out of spac
here, have a FRICKIN article about it
Most Metroid games don't have good story. What they do tend to have is good environmental story. It's the same with something like Dark Souls. Dark Souls doesn't have a very compelling narrative, but it has much more interesting environmental storytelling that says much more about the world.
Additionally, stuff like Star Trek is about characters. Each show has an ensemble cast who serve as the narrative and moral focus of each story.
I would like to point out this section from that article:
Zelda does not.
In your opinion*
No, from a writing perspective. Zelda does not have multi-faceted characters with depth. The ones that come closest (which I would consider to be BotW Zelda and not much else) are pushed aside focus can be put on undeveloped husks like Link.
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Characters ought to have more than one or two traits to define them to be deep, really.
Oh I wasn't paying much attention. I'm very surprised to hear someone say BotW Zelda is a good character tho.
Mikey the Moblin
if I had a nickel for every time I ran out of spac
I find dark souls' narrative extremely compelling personally. It's pretty silly to distinguish between storytelling and environmental storytelling tho, it reads like no true scotsman fallacy
wrong.gif like no star trek is pretty clearly focused on trekking the stars hmmm it's not meet the crew
saying zelda lacks compelling characters is your prerogative
I find the characters from my favorite/the best zelda games (like wind waker, majora's mask [which is actually imo a character driven zelda game], or skyward sword) to be decently compelling and multi-faceted. The fact that you choose to ignore the character traits that display that depth doesnt mean I do too
As much as I'm kind of meh when it comes to BotW Zelda, what sets her apart is having some meaningful backstory that explains why she acts the way she does. It's not actively conveyed to the player, but even told passively, it works to give her more depth than your average Zelda incarnation.
Mikey the Moblin
if I had a nickel for every time I ran out of spac
Well, the average zelda incarnation by the numbers is a default princess with about 2 lines of text
But theres an equal, or nearly equal, number of zeldas who have depth- tp, ww, st, ss all come to mind
She is certainly a step up from what the series has managed before.
Star Trek still focuses on having characters with depth and personality who interact with each other and whose personal struggles often become the focus of episodes. Yes, they do trek the stars, but it's the people trekking through the stars. When the plot appears on the view screen, it's the characters who are responding to it.
I'm not out to just say negative things about Zelda. I praise the stuff I like about the series and critically analyze the stuff I don't. I'm critical of Zelda's characters and storytelling because the things I enjoyed as a kid and teenager don't hold up as an adult. It's a series that feels stuck in 1994 and I want it to be better.
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Mikey the Moblin
if I had a nickel for every time I ran out of spac
I get this
I really do
I've said as much probably half a dozen times in the past couple weeks
The reason were so loud and obnoxious about it is because were both passionate about zelda and we care about the series. We both criticize different aspects of the games and we want to see future games do better in these aspects. The only real problem I've had in this respect is your constant tasteless depictions of link, which I appreciate you toning down on as of late.
But what you're basically saying is "I want zelda to be a character driven story" when historically that hasn't been the case. And yeah that can change at times, like I think it does for majoras mask
But if you maybe think about zelda games as being not character focused stories then you can see what I see in them, and appreciate them for the narrative value that they still have rather than the narrative value you wish they had
Mikey the Moblin
if I had a nickel for every time I ran out of spac
Speaking of botw zelda shes literally so one dimensional compared to previous zeldas rofl
Shes 95% science nerd 5% rebellious teen
That's not a real character, that's an attempt at a strong female character
Shes 95% science nerd 5% rebellious teen
That's not a real character, that's an attempt at a strong female character
I mostly just want Zelda to have good characters. At the moment, the franchise struggles with basic concepts like... character and good storytelling.
Which versions of Zelda would you say have more development than BotW Zelda?