Fraxinus
chunky plant goop
Characters are a channel through which a world is examined. They help paint the world; they are part of the world. The world should be primary, the characters secondary imo.
nah, nah, nah, you can't spin it like thatI mean, it was. That story you told was about you and your reactions to stuff while cruising in the boundary waters. It was, as a matter of fact, character focused. Additionally, the standard is different when it's a story told between friends versus when it's a story in a published form that you're charging people money for
it's not, because nobody said that good characters can't make good stories. In fact, I'm pretty sure having a protagonist is essential for a story. But it doesn't have to be about themIt isn’t? You said that “Good stories are always about characters. If your story isn't character focused, it probably isn't good.” is an inaccurate statement. What I said supports that. A story’s quality largely hinges on the characters involved.
nah, nah, nah, you can't spin it like that
take metroid for example. Metroid's stories are 100% environmental. There's little to no character focus involved whatsoever. Are you going to tell me metroid is bad at storytelling? You're actually just wrong here and trying to back up a bad position for... saving face or something, idk
it's not, because nobody said that good characters can't make good stories. In fact, I'm pretty sure having a protagonist is essential for a story. But it doesn't have to be about them
bringing up this random line about "oh but characters can be good!" is just irrelevant
think of all the dozens of sci-fi stories like star trek or MTG. The stories focus heavily on the locations the characters visit. Fantasy stories like star wars are more character focused, even though they're all located in space.
here, have a FRICKIN article about it
In your opinion*Zelda does not.
No, from a writing perspective. Zelda does not have multi-faceted characters with depth. The ones that come closest (which I would consider to be BotW Zelda and not much else) are pushed aside focus can be put on undeveloped husks like Link.In your opinion*
Oh I wasn't paying much attention. I'm very surprised to hear someone say BotW Zelda is a good character tho.No, from a writing perspective. Zelda does not have multi-faceted characters with depth. The ones that come closest (which I would consider to be BotW Zelda and not much else) are pushed aside focus can be put on undeveloped husks like Link.
I find dark souls' narrative extremely compelling personally. It's pretty silly to distinguish between storytelling and environmental storytelling tho, it reads like no true scotsman fallacyMost Metroid games don't have good story. What they do tend to have is good environmental story. It's the same with something like Dark Souls. Dark Souls doesn't have a very compelling narrative, but it has much more interesting environmental storytelling that says much more about the world.
wrong.gif like no star trek is pretty clearly focused on trekking the stars hmmm it's not meet the crewAdditionally, stuff like Star Trek is about characters. Each show has an ensemble cast who serve as the narrative and moral focus of each story.
saying zelda lacks compelling characters is your prerogative
As much as I'm kind of meh when it comes to BotW Zelda, what sets her apart is having some meaningful backstory that explains why she acts the way she does. It's not actively conveyed to the player, but even told passively, it works to give her more depth than your average Zelda incarnation.Oh I wasn't paying much attention. I'm very surprised to hear someone say BotW Zelda is a good character tho.
Well, the average zelda incarnation by the numbers is a default princess with about 2 lines of textAs much as I'm kind of meh when it comes to BotW Zelda, what sets her apart is having some meaningful backstory that explains why she acts the way she does. It's not actively conveyed to the player, but even told passively, it works to give her more depth than your average Zelda incarnation.
She is certainly a step up from what the series has managed before.Oh I wasn't paying much attention. I'm very surprised to hear someone say BotW Zelda is a good character tho.
Star Trek still focuses on having characters with depth and personality who interact with each other and whose personal struggles often become the focus of episodes. Yes, they do trek the stars, but it's the people trekking through the stars. When the plot appears on the view screen, it's the characters who are responding to it.I find dark souls' narrative extremely compelling personally. It's pretty silly to distinguish between storytelling and environmental storytelling tho, it reads like no true scotsman fallacy
wrong.gif like no star trek is pretty clearly focused on trekking the stars hmmm it's not meet the crew
saying zelda lacks compelling characters is your prerogative
I find the characters from my favorite/the best zelda games (like wind waker, majora's mask [which is actually imo a character driven zelda game], or skyward sword) to be decently compelling and multi-faceted. The fact that you choose to ignore the character traits that display that depth doesnt mean I do too
I get thisI'm not out to just say negative things about Zelda. I praise the stuff I like about the series and critically analyze the stuff I don't. I'm critical of Zelda's characters and storytelling because the things I enjoyed as a kid and teenager don't hold up as an adult. It's a series that feels stuck in 1994 and I want it to be better
I get this
I really do
I've said as much probably half a dozen times in the past couple weeks
The reason were so loud and obnoxious about it is because were both passionate about zelda and we care about the series. We both criticize different aspects of the games and we want to see future games do better in these aspects. The only real problem I've had in this respect is your constant tasteless depictions of link, which I appreciate you toning down on as of late.
But what you're basically saying is "I want zelda to be a character driven story" when historically that hasn't been the case. And yeah that can change at times, like I think it does for majoras mask
But if you maybe think about zelda games as being not character focused stories then you can see what I see in them, and appreciate them for the narrative value that they still have rather than the narrative value you wish they had
Speaking of botw zelda shes literally so one dimensional compared to previous zeldas rofl
Shes 95% science nerd 5% rebellious teen
That's not a real character, that's an attempt at a strong female character