Why Do So Many Ppl Think There is a Split Timeline...?

[Satsy]

filipepw: In Oot, there is only one Link. That is officially the case. If there were two Links don't you think you would have come across that second Link somewhere in the game? There is only one. This is official.

Up until the end of the game, there is only one timeline. Also official. Link is able, by the power of the Ocarina, to travel up and down time, via the magic associated with the Ocarina.

When Link is sent back in time, he does not have the ocarina in his possession. This is evident when Zelda takes the ocarina off him, to send him back in time. That is the point where the split happens.

The reason is because suddenly you have a timeline with Link on it (where he was sent back as a child), and a timeline where Link no longer exists (the timeline you've been playing on, in which you just defeated Ganon). If there were two Links, as you seem to think there were, they would still only exist on the one timeline -- the timeline where he was a child once more. Because neither of them will grow onto the adult timeline from that point. Because at least one of those Links already knows the fate of the future and changes it (Twilight Princess).

Having 2 Links, however, is a what-if, and not official. Officially, there is still only one Link, who has just stopped the adult timeline from coming into effect (otherwise what would have been the point of the whole malarkey?).

Twilight Princess is confirmed to take place after Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. It is confirmed not to be associated with Wind Waker.

Even in the games, Twilight Princess, from what I understand, tells of how Ganondorf's plans to get at the Triforce were ousted, and he was tried for it, winding up in a (failed) execution.

However if the game went on from the end of Ocarina of time, Ganondorf already tried to get the Triforce, which is what split it in the first place (Rauru tells you this in the Sacred Realm when you become an adult). Ganondorf also took over Hyrule, which in Twilight Princess, didn't happen. But TP clearly comes after OoT. Even if it were to come after any other game in the series, Ganon had already made his attack and brought the Kingdom to its knees through one way or another (LoZ, LttP, WW, FSA). He had also paid the price for it, as the beast, which was not the story TP told.

In the Wind Waker, it tells of the Hero of Time (OoT is the only Link known as this specifically) and how he defeated Ganon in his beast form and sealed him away before leaving, which resulted in his never coming back. Ganon broke loose once more, and Hyrule was flooded. This is what's told to you, the player, in the game's intro, and is mentioned again several times by characters throughout the game. This game was also confirmed to have come directly after OoT, and tells of the events of the end of the game. Something Twilight Princess makes no mention of.

Because it didn't happen in Hyrule, when Twilight Princess takes place.

Yet it does take place in Hyrule, when Wind Waker does, at around the same time.

If you pay attention to the interviews, they will tell you the current order.

If you only pay attention to the games, even they, if you really are paying attention, will tell you were they go. Even by that logic the evidence cannot be disputed:

Twilight Princess, and Wind Waker, directly follow after Ocarina of Time (Majora's Mask excluded for irrelevance at this time). This cannot happen unless the timeline splits.

The developers working on the games have confirmed this.

It is not opinion, its stated fact.

 

[filipepw]

filipepw: In Oot, there is only one Link. That is officially the case. If there were two Links don't you think you would have come across that second Link somewhere in the game? There is only one. This is official.

there is NOTHING official about the Zelda timeline, thats what ppl dont seem to understand
and all the games are made to stand alone as individual games

no one can use the word oficial, cause there is no such thing in the Zelda timeline

check this:
http: //www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5FozOuwQjI

The reason is because suddenly you have a timeline with Link on it (where he was sent back as a child), and a timeline where Link no longer exists (the timeline you've been playing on, in which you just defeated Ganon). If there were two Links, as you seem to think there were, they would still only exist on the one timeline -- the timeline where he was a child once more. Because neither of them will grow onto the adult timeline from that point. Because at least one of those Links already knows the fate of the future and changes it (Twilight Princess).

Having 2 Links, however, is a what-if, and not official. Officially, there is still only one Link, who has just stopped the adult timeline from coming into effect (otherwise what would have been the point of the whole malarkey?).

look at the facts:
-- link beats ganon
-- returns to being a child
-- GOES AWAY from hyrule
-- comes a game called Majoras Mask, where link is as old as in the Adult timeline from Oot
-- this game is not in hyrule

acording to the facts, does it seem some one would save hyrule, around the same time as MM
or does it seem that hyrule was saved 7 years ago ?

there is no way to know, cause any of them is possible, BUT
why did they make MM in these conditions ?
why did the game developers think: now lets make a game that is not in hyrule, doesnt have zelda, and has a link near to the age of OoT's adult link
i think they did that cause it would conflict with the adult timeline from OoT

the link from MM cant be in hyrule because its being saved by OoT's time traveling Link.

now be smart and unprove this, and i wanna see statements from Shigeru if you wanna talk about official

 

[Hylian Knight]

First of all filipepw if you don't think there is a Split timeline then create a linear timeline for yourself and we'll show all the bugs in it proving that there is a split time.

As if the developer comments Locke posted weren't enough.

 

[JuicieJ]

there is NOTHING official about the Zelda timeline, thats what ppl dont seem to understand
and all the games are made to stand alone as individual games

no one can use the word oficial, cause there is no such thing in the Zelda timeline

Actually, I'm pretty sure there are some games that officially connect. I already gave them to you earlier.

............/WW--PH--ST
SS--OoT
............\MM--TP

Those are official. You're mistaking Zelda for Final Fantasy with what you're saying. Nintendo of America was actually going to release the official timeline, but Miyamoto said not to, because he wanted the fans to speculate it for themselves.

look at the facts:
-- link beats ganon
-- returns to being a child
-- GOES AWAY from hyrule
-- comes a game called Majoras Mask, where link is as old as in the Adult timeline from Oot
-- this game is not in hyrule

acording to the facts, does it seem some one would save hyrule, around the same time as MM
or does it seem that hyrule was saved 7 years ago ?

You're still not understanding that there aren't two Links. Adult Link wasn't around because Link was sent back to his own time. He went in search of Navi when MM came about. And I'm pretty sure he was a child in that game. I mean, he sure didn't look like an adult. I don't know where you got that idea from. And, yes, the game isn't in Hyrule because it's in Termina. So what? That doesn't mean anything. Just like with LA. It was a sequel to ALttP, yet it took place in a dream world. PH takes place in an alternate world, as well. That has nothing to do with anything.

there is no way to know, cause any of them is possible, BUT
why did they make MM in these conditions ?
why did the game developers think: now lets make a game that is not in hyrule, doesnt have zelda, and has a link near to the age of OoT's adult link
i think they did that cause it would conflict with the adult timeline from OoT

What are you talking about? I think we explained how MM came about as Nintendo does. Link went back to his own time to regain his lost childhood, in which the split was created. He went searching for Navi, and we know the rest of MM from there. He was a child. I don't know where you're getting this "he had to be an adult to do that" thing. The game developers made the game because they wanted to do something different. They wanted to follow up on Link after he went back to his own time, and since Ganondorf was driven out, they made something that didn't involve him.

the link from MM cant be in hyrule because its being saved by OoT's time traveling Link.

I really don't know where you're getting this from. Again, Link was in Termina because he was looking for Navi, and the Skull Kid took his Ocarina. He went chasing after him, and stumbled upon the portal to Termina, as that's where the Skull Kid ran off to. Hyrule didn't need to be saved anymore, because Ganondorf was stopped before he could touch the Triforce, as the Door of Time wasn't opened. The time Link left behind was already saved, because that's the time Link saved. It's simple to understand, and has no contradictions, as it's what Nintendo says.

now be smart and unprove this, and i wanna see statements from Shigeru if you wanna talk about official

We've already unproved it. In fact, you never proved anything. All of your statements have been contradictory to what Nintendo says. And what you said about Miyamoto... Aonuma is one of the Zelda game developers. He and Miyamoto are the two major heads of Zelda. If Aonuma says it, then Miyamoto says it, as well.


Once again, you're completely ignoring everything we've said and quoted and stating the exact same arguments over and over again. You're not providing anything new, as you don't want to let go of what you believe. Try listening to us for a change, instead of keeping a closed mind. It'll help you get appreciated. Because right now all you're doing is hurting yourself. I'm not trying to insult you, I'm just telling you the truth.

 

[Hylian Knight]

Like I keep on saying If think there isn't a split in the timeline create a Thread showing your liner timeline and we'll show the bugs in it.

 

[Satsy]

I can't check that Link, it isn't a valid youtube link.

It is already very clear, filipepw, you are arguing for the sake of arguing.

Rather than try to go through any more of your points, as you seem to be blind to reason, let's try this:

Prove to me there is more than 1 Link in Ocarina of Time. Use in-game evidence.

Show me where Wind Waker would go, or where Twilight Princess would go, on a timeline, if there isn't a split. Use in-game evidence, of both the two titles you're arguing over, and the game that you think precedes it.

Prove to me that Eiji Anouma isn't in any way an official source and cannot be used in arguments such as these for discussion of canon (bear in mind he has been a part of the development team for many Zelda titles already).

Show me why using evidence presented in game (as I showed in my last post) is in no way 'official' towards a timeline.

Prove to me, using developer quotes and in-game sources, that the timeline isn't official.

Everyone's put a lot of work into showing you the evidence, philipepw, please show us some courtesy and show you can do the same.

 

[filipepw]

Seriously, I don't see how this conversation got past page one. Any arguments the creator of this thread have been proven wrong, and many have quoted the creators of the franchise proving it, yet it still goes on. It's really pretty incredible.

no one has even comented on my arguments...

I can't check that Link, it isn't a valid youtube link.

It is already very clear, filipepw, you are arguing for the sake of arguing.

Rather than try to go through any more of your points, as you seem to be blind to reason, let's try this:

Prove to me there is more than 1 Link in Ocarina of Time. Use in-game evidence.

Show me where Wind Waker would go, or where Twilight Princess would go, on a timeline, if there isn't a split. Use in-game evidence, of both the two titles you're arguing over, and the game that you think precedes it.

Prove to me that Eiji Anouma isn't in any way an official source and cannot be used in arguments such as these for discussion of canon (bear in mind he has been a part of the development team for many Zelda titles already).

Show me why using evidence presented in game (as I showed in my last post) is in no way 'official' towards a timeline.

Prove to me, using developer quotes and in-game sources, that the timeline isn't official.

Everyone's put a lot of work into showing you the evidence, philipepw, please show us some courtesy and show you can do the same.

you want proof for this:
"Show me where Wind Waker would go, or where Twilight Princess would go, on a timeline, if there isn't a split. Use in-game evidence, of both the two titles you're arguing over, and the game that you think precedes it."

well, lets concider there is a time-split.

first of all, you are rejecting the future, saying it doesnt happen when link returns to being a kid

second, and now IN GAME FACTS. in ocarina of time, Ganon enters the sacred realm to take control over the triforce
but, sinse he's an evil person, he cant, and he only achieves the triforce of power, beacuse its the one he belives in the most.
this is all explained by Zelda in OoT. and happens during the 7 year time gap

in the split timeline, link returns to being a kid, talk with zelda, like in the credits, and they stop Ganon. THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE
because then Ganon wouldnt get the Triforce of power, nothing could come next to the child ending

this is a MAJOR FLAW in the time split
and like i said before

look at the facts:
-- link beats ganon
-- returns to being a child
-- GOES AWAY from hyrule
-- comes a game called Majoras Mask, where link is as old as in the Adult timeline from Oot
-- this game is not in hyrule

acording to the facts, does it seem some one would save hyrule, around the same time as MM
or does it seem that hyrule was saved 7 years ago ?

there is no way to know, cause any of them is possible, BUT
why did they make MM in these conditions ?
why did the game developers think: now lets make a game that is not in hyrule, doesnt have zelda, and has a link near to the age of OoT's adult link
i think they did that cause it would conflict with the adult timeline from OoT

the link from MM cant be in hyrule because its being saved by OoT's time traveling Link.

the time split theory is a miss interpretation resulting from looking for excusses not to think!
most ppl are such fan boys that they take what the creators say as if it was a bible
and forget that they are ppl

as bonus, here is an interview with Aonuma where he says "i dont know about the history of The Legend of Zelda and how Miyamoto came up with the idea "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVx085_oPQ0

 

[Satsy]

Yes. Anouma doesn't know how the Zelda series began, because he only joined the team from OoT onwards. That doesn't help your case or hinder ours.

What's clear though is that other than 'the split is impossible', you don't actually have a point, anything to back it up (solidly), or any real motivation to take into account what people are telling you. That's not how a debate works, and calling us the people not thinking as a result shows you'll fall back on petty insults when things don't go your way.

I gave you points from OoT, WW, and TP. You countered with the same point from OoT, without taking into account the games that followed the perceived split. I do wonder if you've actually played through Twilight Princess, or Wind Waker, if you're unable to use those to bolster your arguments.

I suggest to you to play through those three games (again, if I'm wrong about you not playing the later two), with an open mind. Take notes if necessary. Try to come up with a reason that split couldn't happen based on in-game evidence from WW and TP, and try to understand that from the games the split can also be acknowledged, not just the interviews.

 

[zack125]

filipepwif, you say there isn't a split timeline, or the fact that you've said there are two Links, would you like to explain why Link never went after Ganon when he got out of the Sacred Realm, as explained in TWW's intro?

 

[JuicieJ]

no one has even comented on my arguments...



you want proof for this:
"Show me where Wind Waker would go, or where Twilight Princess would go, on a timeline, if there isn't a split. Use in-game evidence, of both the two titles you're arguing over, and the game that you think precedes it."

well, lets concider there is a time-split.

first of all, you are rejecting the future, saying it doesnt happen when link returns to being a kid

second, and now IN GAME FACTS. in ocarina of time, Ganon enters the sacred realm to take control over the triforce
but, sinse he's an evil person, he cant, and he only achieves the triforce of power, beacuse its the one he belives in the most.
this is all explained by Zelda in OoT. and happens during the 7 year time gap

in the split timeline, link returns to being a kid, talk with zelda, like in the credits, and they stop Ganon. THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE
because then Ganon wouldnt get the Triforce of power, nothing could come next to the child ending

this is a MAJOR FLAW in the time split
and like i said before

I have just slapped my forehead so many times I lost count. We've gone over this. Yes, Ganondorf didn't get the ToP when Link returned because it was before that happened. We also have clearly stated that the time Link left behind still existed. We have never "rejected the future". You're seriously misinterpreting us, there. There are no flaws in the time split, as it is the in-game fact. Nintendo confirms it. Aonuma somewhat made Ocarina of Time. He is completely official in what he says, as he made some of OoT, made most of WW, and completely made TP. How is that not official? Please tell me, because I don't see how you can get much more official than making a game that is part of the split. We've also mentioned that Ganondorf got the Triforce of Power in TP due to the "divine prank of the gods" mentioned by the Sages in TP. Think about it. How else was Ganondorf in TP? There was no hero to stop Ganon in the backstory to WW, so if it comes after TP, that is a direct and blatant contradiction, and you are completely ignoring it.

the time split theory is a miss interpretation resulting from looking for excusses not to think!
most ppl are such fan boys that they take what the creators say as if it was a bible
and forget that they are ppl

Again, it is not a misinterpretation. "They run parallel." That means they are on opposite times. Do you not know what parallel means? Because you are the one misinterpreting the quote. Not us.

as bonus, here is an interview with Aonuma where he says "i dont know about the history of The Legend of Zelda and how Miyamoto came up with the idea "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVx085_oPQ0

All this says is that he didn't know how Miyamoto came up with the idea for the series, meaning what made him create it. That's because he wasn't with it from the first game. Miyamoto told him everything about the series, though. Aonuma has been around since either Zelda II or ALttP, as he's one of the ones that said LA was a direct sequel to ALttP. Aonuma knows everything there is to know about the Zelda series. He's one of the developers. Again, you're misinterpreting this.

 

[Simon]

the time split theory is a miss interpretation resulting from looking for excusses not to think!
most ppl are such fan boys that they take what the creators say as if it was a bible
and forget that they are ppl

Yes, they are just people, but they are the people who make tha game! They are in charge of what the timeline is!

 

[filipepw]

filipepwif, you say there isn't a split timeline, or the fact that you've said there are two Links, would you like to explain why Link never went after Ganon when he got out of the Sacred Realm, as explained in TWW's intro?

i have both original games though i plan to play WW this summer, cause i havent since i finished it the first time. TP is more fresh in my mind
but the reason i focus on OoT is because its embeded in my brain, i dont forget it so easily

i have to admit i havent played the original LoZ and Zelda II, cause now that i can have them through the wii shop
i dont have time to play them cause of colege. i havent played much of minish cap cause i never owned a gameboy advanced or similar,
but now i do and im gona try to find a used original or something

its hard to explain the concept of time travel by word but the idea is that
if you travel 10 years to the future, and you go to your future house, you will find your self 10 years older ( dude.. thats deep... )
thats what im trying to get across there is in fact something like a split, but not a dimentional split but a time split

i hope you red what i wrote
it goes a little like this:

.........................____7 years____...................................
OoT---->child end|------>MM--->|adult end----->TP
(MM and the adult end can be hapening at the same time, nothing says it cant be)

and taking in acount this:

look at the facts:
-- link beats ganon
-- returns to being a child
-- GOES AWAY from hyrule
-- comes a game called Majoras Mask, where link is as old as in the Adult timeline from Oot
-- this game is not in hyrule

acording to the facts, does it seem some one would save hyrule, around the same time as MM
or does it seem that hyrule was saved 7 years ago ?

there is no way to know, cause any of them is possible, BUT
why did they make MM in these conditions ?
why did the game developers think: now lets make a game that is not in hyrule, doesnt have zelda, and has a link near to the age of OoT's adult link
i think they did that cause it would conflict with the adult timeline from OoT

the link from MM cant be in hyrule because its being saved by OoT's time traveling Link.

for me it just doesnt fit the logic

i signed in this forum hoping for clear ideas and answers, but few ppl answered arguments
they just talk about official and prooven, but they dont present proof

i am a future programmer my self and as Aonuma said, they first go for the gaming experience and after that they buid the story. there is no timeline
just references
Aonuma had most influence in OoT and TP and the both shared that mistic atmosphere, WW not so much

so with that in mind i will never accept that there is an official timeline until Nintendo says: "here is the true LoZ timeline"

timelines are made by fans based on game facts, experience and logic, and i think the split is ilogical, thats all

it has a valid point in the continuation of the adult segment that can even be interpreted as the philosophical paradox of Absolute vs. Relative

i will come here when i finish every single LoZ game with my full timeline until then just think about the thing i said and try to find the sense in them

 

[JuicieJ]

All right, guys, this guy's obviously not gonna listen to us, and he's gonna keep stating the same arguments instead of producing new ones to contradict what's official. He's just going to state his pure opinion because he personally doesn't understand where Nintendo's coming from, so he's not going to listen to us. It's best just to leave him to his own life now. Let him contradict Nintendo. Let him keep saying things can't be possible because it doesn't make sense to him, and therefore what he says is law. It's not our problem.

 

[Satsy]

Waitwait no, I think I get what's being said a little better now.

filipepw, yes, time travel is a strange thing, and I think I see what you're getting at now. But then if that is the case, then where does Wind Waker end up?

 

[Locke]

well, lets concider there is a time-split.

first of all, you are rejecting the future, saying it doesnt happen when link returns to being a kid

second, and now IN GAME FACTS. in ocarina of time, Ganon enters the sacred realm to take control over the triforce
but, sinse he's an evil person, he cant, and he only achieves the triforce of power, beacuse its the one he belives in the most.
this is all explained by Zelda in OoT. and happens during the 7 year time gap

in the split timeline, link returns to being a kid, talk with zelda, like in the credits, and they stop Ganon. THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE
because then Ganon wouldnt get the Triforce of power, nothing could come next to the child ending

First of all, as has been said multiple times in this thread, the adult ending is not discarded. It still happens, just separate from the child ending.

Second, I fail to see how stopping Ganon is impossible. It leads perfectly into TP. Ganon still gets the ToP on the AT, which leads perfectly into WW.

most ppl are such fan boys that they take what the creators say as if it was a bible
and forget that they are ppl

Isn't that ...the basic definition of a bible? Ever heard of the trope "Word of God?" I would think that the creators would be the definitive resource for observing their creation.

as bonus, here is an interview with Aonuma where he says "i dont know about the history of The Legend of Zelda and how Miyamoto came up with the idea "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVx085_oPQ0

He's talking about development history, as in the time period between the mid-1980's and mid-1990's; not in-game history like the SW. Even so, there are times when they make mistakes. That's why we have in-game evidence and debates like this to sort them out. Overall though, believable developer quotes either confirm what's in-game or add to it. The quotes I've provided do both. Developers are only put into question if what they say directly contradicts something from a game, because, as you say, they are only human, while the games are permanent and infallible.

its hard to explain the concept of time travel by word but the idea is that
if you travel 10 years to the future, and you go to your future house, you will find your self 10 years older ( dude.. thats deep... )
thats what im trying to get across there is in fact something like a split, but not a dimentional split but a time split

As far as I know, travel to the future (in the real world) is scientifically impossible. It only exists in fiction. Therefore each work of fiction is at liberty to define its own time-travel rules. You can see this in the difference in function of the Ocarina of Time between OoT and MM. In MM, playing the Song of Time rewinds time three days. That's quite different from its function in OoT. It doesn't have to make sense scientifically; it's only there to aid gameplay. On a side note, MM's time-travel mechanic doesn't create copies of Link, so it's possible that the same could be true in OoT.

i am a future programmer my self and as Aonuma said, they first go for the gaming experience and after that they buid the story. there is no timeline
just references
Aonuma had most influence in OoT and TP and the both shared that mistic atmosphere, WW not so much

Funny enough, TP was actually created story first. But that's beside the point. There is an official timeline document. If you think the developers are lying, then you might as well say the games themselves are lying too. Granted, the document itself may not be a full timeline but a description of references between games. That doesn't change the validity of these connections or the developers' comments about them.