Twilight Princess: "Dumbed" Down Ocarina of Time?

[A Link In Time]

This is a question which has torn the Zelda community apart ever since The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess's release in November 2006. Large portions of the fanbase were convinced the game aped Ocarina of Time and executed many of the concepts permeating the 1998 classic in a more archaic and defunct manner.

Most of those arguments are false. I realize that preference of one videogame over another and assessing a specific title is a subjective personal opinion, however, in this thread I will endeavor to explain how Twilight Princess was not only an evolution of the series formula but also in many ways in a tier above Ocarina of Time. But let's begin with the pitfalls.

Whenever people lampoon Twilight Princess they are quick to point to its long introduction which many believed was pointless and exhausting. Take fishing for example. I know players who were stuck on the basic inception portion of the game for at least an hour. Filler, sword training, filler, Ilia kidnapped, filler. That first dive certainly didn't leave a lasting impression.

Another loathed aspect of Twilight Princess is its poor use of items. The Spinner, Ball and Chain, and Dominion Rod fill space within Link's arsenal without a specific purpose after their respective dungeons. This was a shy away from earlier installments like Ocarina of Time which required not only the traditional bombs and slingshot/bow and arrow from start to finish but other helpful tools like the Longshot and Lens of Truth came in handy along the adventure.

Overshadowing those small faults however is a glorious and expansive Hyrule easily beating out its Ocarina of Time counterpart. The area stands as a paragon of nonlinear gameplay to this day.

And then there are the superb bosses. From the very first battle against Diababa with Ook's assistance in the Forest Temple it was clear that Twilight Princess was taking a radically different path from its predecessors. Morpheel made exceptional use of the dimensional complexity characterizing water areas with a keen eye required to latch onto the beast, Stallord needed to be pounded with the Spinner until he fell and rose as a sole skull for a riveting finale, Argorok took the fight to the air for the first time in franchise history, and Zant opened the veranda as the penultimate duo unfolded in previous skirmish locales.

With all these shining spots why is Twilight Princess still so detested? Many point to its narrative and sudden inclusion of Ganondorf but upon closer examination he enriched the story line and introduced one of the most thrilling conclusions to any videogame ever created.

From a depth perspective Twilight Princess blows Ocarina of Time away. The N64 marvel revolved around a cliche tale of Ganondorf usurping power and the fair princess Zelda being forced to flee into exile. The 2006 game, however, burst onto the scene full force with Zant and Midna taking center stage, an aura of mysteriousness encompassing both. This was the first time a rogue faction was incorporated into the Zelda universe-the Twili. At heart the people of the Twilight Realm were good, misunderstood and cast away by the Gods. Acting under the pretext of a false "messiah" or savior Zant was able to recruit forces to wage war on alternate realms. This same idea was revisited with the Ancient Robots in Skyward Sword. Skipper and Scrapper were genuine delights willing to assist Link on his journey whereas Scervo and Dreadfuse are sheep from the same flock programmed to wreak havoc.

The Twilight Realm nuance was further developed via Ganondorf's tale. Many found him an unnecessary last second inclusion but in fact he was the exact opposite. While not nearly as pensive as his Wind Waker counterpart, Ganondorf in Twilight Princess displayed a more closed heart directly related to the punishment he received. He didn't need to be the prophet presented in 22003's cel-shaded installment rather solely make the connection of a thwarted tyrant, one who could never execute his cruel rule. He was as fierce as his Ocarina counterpart but displayed greater restraint and forethought in his actions.

After entering the Twilight Realm via the Mirror of Twilight Ganondorf behaves something like a Hernan Cortes, someone pretending to be the promised God of the covenant, a deity in mortal form. This logically set the stage for Midna's frustration with him later in the game when he finally appeared in the flesh at his castle. The larger role he would play in the narrative was established halfway throughout the quest, not as effective as the instant face to face meet beginning Ocarina of Time or The Wind Waker but a far cry from Demise in Skyward Sword. Although Ghirahim constantly alluded to his master throughout you can't help but feel Demise was tossed in without proper character development.

Twilight Princess stands as a hallmark for not only the Zelda franchise but Action-Adventure games in general. Threads like this will continue to spring up because it is a misunderstood installment and I personally hope for Twilight Princess to achieve cult classic status along the lines of Majora's Mask in due time. I presented my argument for why Twilight Princess is a fantastic title and superior to Ocarina of Time in several facets and now I'd love to hear yours. Concurrence and rebukes are equally welcome. Type away!

 

[JuicieJ]

Most of those arguments are false. I realize that preference of one videogame over another and assessing a specific title is a subjective personal opinion, however, in this thread I will endeavor to explain how Twilight Princess was not only an evolution of the series formula but also in many ways in a tier above Ocarina of Time. But let's begin with the pitfalls.

I wouldn't say that most of them are false, just overexaggerated. The majority of TP's complaints have merit to them.

Whenever people lampoon Twilight Princess they are quick to point to its long introduction which many believed was pointless and exhausting. Take fishing for example. I know players who were stuck on the basic inception portion of the game for at least an hour. Filler, sword training, filler, Ilia kidnapped, filler. That first dive certainly didn't leave a lasting impression.

Another loathed aspect of Twilight Princess is its poor use of items. The Spinner, Ball and Chain, and Dominion Rod fill space within Link's arsenal without a specific purpose after their respective dungeons. This was a shy away from earlier installments like Ocarina of Time which required not only the traditional bombs and slingshot/bow and arrow from start to finish but other helpful tools like the Longshot and Lens of Truth came in handy along the adventure.

You left out the mediocre characters throughout the game and pathetic difficulty complaints.

Overshadowing those small faults however is a glorious and expansive Hyrule easily beating out its Ocarina of Time counterpart. The area stands as a paragon of nonlinear gameplay to this day.

Non-linear? TP's overworld? I would seriously appreciate some detail, here, because one of the last things I would describe TP's overworld as is non-linear.

And then there are the superb bosses. From the very first battle against Diababa with Ook's assistance in the Forest Temple it was clear that Twilight Princess was taking a radically different path from its predecessors. Morpheel made exceptional use of the dimensional complexity characterizing water areas with a keen eye required to latch onto the beast, Stallord needed to be pounded with the Spinner until he fell and rose as a sole skull for a riveting finale, Argorok took the fight to the air for the first time in franchise history, and Zant opened the veranda as the penultimate duo unfolded in previous skirmish locales.

I can't say I see where you're coming from on the bosses perspective. Diababa was pretty good for an opening boss, sure, and Morpheel wasn't half bad either, but many of the other bosses in TP have some pretty terrible design. Fyrus is a pushover, the second phase of Stallord feels more like a mini-game, Armogohma is the worst fricken' boss in Zelda history, Argorok was decent at best, and Zant was annoying and posed zero threat until the final portion of his fight. If you want to talk about Zelda games with superb bosses, ALttP, OoT, MM, ST, and SS are your best choices. TP? Bosses were either hit or miss. Stallord's first form and the four-phase fight with Ganondorf are both very well-designed, but everything else ranges from pretty good or poor (with poor being on the receiving end).

With all these shining spots why is Twilight Princess still so detested? Many point to its narrative and sudden inclusion of Ganondorf but upon closer examination he enriched the story line and introduced one of the most thrilling conclusions to any videogame ever created.

Again, his four-phase boss fight is really good, but he was seen in the story literally twice. He appeared, disappeared, then appeared again. This was due to the second half of the game nearly dropping all plot elements involving Zant and Ganondorf until the end of the game. There was no legitimate buildup to his conclusion, making the climax of the game feel sudden and rushed. Which it was.

From a depth perspective Twilight Princess blows Ocarina of Time away. The N64 marvel revolved around a cliche tale of Ganondorf usurping power and the fair princess Zelda being forced to flee into exile. The 2006 game, however, burst onto the scene full force with Zant and Midna taking center stage, an aura of mysteriousness encompassing both. This was the first time a rogue faction was incorporated into the Zelda universe-the Twili. At heart the people of the Twilight Realm were good, misunderstood and cast away by the Gods. Acting under the pretext of a false "messiah" or savior Zant was able to recruit forces to wage war on alternate realms. This same idea was revisited with the Ancient Robots in Skyward Sword. Skipper and Scrapper were genuine delights willing to assist Link on his journey whereas Scervo and Dreadfuse are sheep from the same flock programmed to wreak havoc.

The Robots comparison is a bit out of nowhere and kind of jarring. They never had anyone controlling them. They were never enemies. The Twili were, as they were being transformed into the Twilight Beasts. I'm confused as to why you decided to compare the two races when they have totally different situations in their respective games.

The Twilight Realm nuance was further developed via Ganondorf's tale. Many found him an unnecessary last second inclusion but in fact he was the exact opposite. While not nearly as pensive as his Wind Waker counterpart, Ganondorf in Twilight Princess displayed a more closed heart directly related to the punishment he received. He didn't need to be the prophet presented in 22003's cel-shaded installment rather solely make the connection of a thwarted tyrant, one who could never execute his cruel rule. He was as fierce as his Ocarina counterpart but displayed greater restraint and forethought in his actions.

I don't think we've reached that year yet. XD

Yet again, Ganondorf's conclusion in of itself was great. How it was executed was the problem.

After entering the Twilight Realm via the Mirror of Twilight Ganondorf behaves something like a Hernan Cortes, someone pretending to be the promised God of the covenant, a deity in mortal form. This logically set the stage for Midna's frustration with him later in the game when he finally appeared in the flesh at his castle. The larger role he would play in the narrative was established halfway throughout the quest, not as effective as the instant face to face meet beginning Ocarina of Time or The Wind Waker but a far cry from Demise in Skyward Sword. Although Ghirahim constantly alluded to his master throughout you can't help but feel Demise was tossed in without proper character development.

Except I can. As I mentioned earlier, Ganondorf appeared, disappeared, then appeared again. It was very sudden storytelling (even though I thought Ganondorf's revelation was great). Demise had a presence the entire game as The Imprisoned. Ghirahim mentioning his master only further increased our wondering of who his master was. Lo and behold, he was the creature we had fought twice already and later had to face a third time. His revelation was anything but sudden, as it had a buildup pretty much the entire game. Upon resurrection, he also clearly portrayed his personality, much like Ganondorf did. The difference is Demise had a proper role in the story. Ganondorf had a somewhat tacked on role. Ganny didn't do a terrible job in TP, but it wasn't as great as you're making it out to be.

Twilight Princess stands as a hallmark for not only the Zelda franchise but Action-Adventure games in general. Threads like this will continue to spring up because it is a misunderstood installment and I personally hope for Twilight Princess to achieve cult classic status along the lines of Majora's Mask in due time. I presented my argument for why Twilight Princess is a fantastic title and superior to Ocarina of Time in several facets and now I'd love to hear yours. Concurrence and rebukes are equally welcome. Type away!

You actually didn't present much of anything to say why it was better than OoT at all. You just mentioned a few things about the game and moved on. You never compared the two games except for once, and even then it was brief and somewhat unexplanatory. If you're going to say a game is better than another, you have to compare the two games constantly and explain why one did certain things better than the other.

That said, is Twilight Princess a great game? Yes. It definitely holds its own in the gaming industry. Is it a hallmark for Zelda? Absolutely not. It didn't accomplish enough to achieve that kind of elite status. I'd like to say TP is up there with ALttP, OoT, MM, and SS, but it just isn't.

 

[Dio]

Twilight Princess is my joint favourite game with Ocarina of time. I found that much of what they did with story, visuals and bosses to be a great improvement over its spiritual predecessor. That said, its difficulty was horrendously easy and anybody who complains about the game in that sense would be completely justified in doing so. The challenge was what made a large part of OOT so fun and that fun was not present in Twilight princess so whilst improvements were made, parts which made its predecessor great were also not present. There is nothing that upsets me more in Zelda than what the final battle could have been had the game been remotely challenging. The epic build up and atmosphere should have concluded in a proper challenge, but no. :cry:

There was a sad lack of humour in Twilight princess and the opening as you said is just far too long. Let me assure you, it's agonising to do for the 9th time if you have not attempted it already. OOT is fast paced and gets you right into the story and action, it may have skimped on the character development there getting you straight in, but seriously, who in their right mind would actually want to get to know any of the Ordon residents? That kind of start up could have been great for TP rather than the long dragged out fish catching and carrying a mothers basket and playing with those brats. You don't even get a real sword until about half an hour in.

I enjoyed Ganondorf in Twilight Princess. His role in the story was certainly required. I would only have liked to have seen more of him in the game, his role was rather skimpy, although not as skimpy as Demise. The justification of his skimpy role could simply be that he is Ganondorf. This game was designed to appeal to fans of OOT and those people know exactly who Ganondorf is, his presence in the game automatically creates tension and atmosphere because we know exactly what this guy is capable of. Even so I wanted more.

 

[r2d93]

Twilight Princess is very high up in my favorite LoZ games, possibly number 2 or 3, and I too don't understand where all of these complaints were coming from.

Let me start with the cons i think TP had. The beginning was very slow, this is true. Zant losing his cool was poorly executed. The dungeons, while creative, were sub par. The game had a lack of humor, and sometimes became discouraging to play. These flaws, however, are all that i think are bad about the game.

The story was superb. Midna and Zant were amazing in their respective roles, and I honestly don't see anything wrong with Ganondorf's placement in the game, and found it a lot better than SS's placements of Demise (I thought the imprisoned was stupid looking and ridiculously easy). Ganondorf shouldnt have the need to be in the game so often especially with Zant still prancing around. If we had met Ganondorf earlier in the game, to me, it would've made him much much less intimidating. It's like seeing a commercial for a movie and having your friends see it. Say you see a commercial once, and then all of your friends come back saying it was an amazing stellar movie and you should go see it. Whether you believe them or not, you're curious as too if theyre correct and want to go see it. On the other hand, if you watch commercials for it over and over again, it loses its appeal. I realize it's a completely different situation, but you catch my drift.

Also the bosses were amazing IMO and far surpass SS's and OoT's bosses for all of the reasons that ALIT listed. to me TP has some of the best bosses we've ever seen in this series.

I've heard a lot of complaints about the ease of the game and I don't see where they come from. I didn't find the game hard, but that doesn't mean i found it so easy that it turned me off from the game. I didn't find either OoT or SS much harder, in fact i found SS easier.

Linearity. I never thought that TP was linear ever, however looking over the game now, i do see that everything must be done in a specific order. However this doesn't bother me at all. I just don't want it to feel linear like SS did. SS's overworld literally had you frequently travel on one path until you came to your destination and left no room for exploring. Exploration was abound in TP after the twilight disappeared, and i rarely ever found the story to be forced.

this is all i can think of at the moment. but yeah i love TP

 

[MW7]

In a very loose sense I'd say there's an ounce of truth to saying Twilight Princess is a dumbed down version of Ocarina of Time. Twilight Princess is more linear than Ocarina of Time, and a linear style tends to be simpler because you don't need to think about where to go as often (partially in the overworld but I think the biggest difference is in dungeons). Just think about how different navigating the Forest Temple or Water Temple of Ocarina of Time is to just about any dungeon in Twilight Princess.

Obviously though Twilight Princess is different from all the other games in the series in a variety of ways; however, there are several similarities such as sharing some gameplay mechanics or the fact that both follow ALTTP's rough outline of collect three of something get the Master Sword then collect more of something else.

In defense though Zelda games have tons of overlap in mostly superficial things. Also I'd say the level of similarity between Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time isn't nearly the strongest of any groups of games in the series. For instance I'd say Ocarina of Time has more in common with A Link to the Past and the Oracles have more in common with Link's Awakening than Twilight Princess has in common with Ocarina of Time.

 

[Beauts]

I don't see TP as anything in relation to OoT (I mean beyond the fact it's sort of a sequel). Sure it is easier in some ways but I didn't find it yawn-easy. It was decent in my opinion. OoT was really hard in some places especially for me because I have zero patience. I don't know why so many people seem to detest Twilight Princess. I liked the styling of the game, the gameplay itself, and the story. I liked that Ganondorf was like the mastermind behind Zant, it gave the story a lot of depth, but that's not to say that I think Ocarina of Time lacked depth in that sense. The point, again, is that TP is a sequel, and a sequel to anything requires depth of storyline. The same can be said for WW depth-wise, and FSA. TP isn't my absolute favourite Zelda game, in fact OoT is, followed by MM and TP ties with SS in third. Anyway, my point is, I don't think these games need to be viewed in so much comparison to each other. Why can't we just enjoy TP for what it is in it's own right? It had a great overworld and a great story and sure, like anything, isn't flawless, but it's a damn sight better than Minish Cap in my opinion, yet that game doesn't get as much hate as TP does, most of which I think is unwarranted, although at the end of the day, it comes down to personal opinion anyway.

 

[Ventus]

- Many of the same, reused items? Check
- Same ALttP Formula as used by its predecessor? Check
- Linearity? Check
- Easier game overall (i.e "dumbed down")? Check
....and moar.

I don't want to get into things, but safe to say that TP reuses a LOT of what Ocarina laid out (or reused itself), only in manners that were less than amazing as per the standards set by its older brother. Ocarina had a lot of items, yes? They all had many uses, and weren't too spread out (besides Ice Arrows). Using each item, in my opinion, felt rewarding every time you did it. In Twilight Princess, though, each item feels like you're using it to do a chore because you use those items pretty much only once with but a few exceptions; what I mean is that OoT's items felt like "infinite usage consumables", whereas TP's were "perishable, one time use consumables".

The ALttP Formula of collecting three then plot twist, and TP even goes out of its way to keep its similarities to Ocarina in this respect: Forest, Fire Water (Inside Tree, D's Cavern, Jabu Jabu compared to Forest, Goron Mines, Lakebed).

Linearity = easy game for the most part.

Easy game, which TP was, equals being "dumbed down" so it can be accessible to everyone. Kinda like Skyward Sword, only in my opinion TP is halfway enjoyable.

Ganondorf. He's in TP pretty much because he's a popular character. Why popular? Because OoT.

 

[JuicieJ]

Linearity = easy game for the most part.

???

Uh, linearity doesn't define how easy a game is. There are plenty of linear games out there that are pretty stinkin' difficult. If you haven't, go play Portal and Portal 2. I think you'll find those games to be a teensy tiny bit mind-boggling.

 

[SpiritGerudo]

Twilight Princess isn't a game I would set on the level of Majora's Mask, but I would hardly call it a "dumbed down" Ocarina of Time, either. I agree with something Random Person said on Z-Talk once, that Twilight Princess's purpose was to bring back nostalgia of Ocarina of Time, which I think it did very well while still remaining unique and it's own game. Ocarina of Time was classic. It had THE Zelda story line and it set all of the things that we see as some of the best aspects of Zelda out at once and is famous for it. Most, if not all of the games have drawn from it in some way and Twilight Princess is no different. It's just that it draws some of the best know aspects from it and so they are noticed more than the things that Twilight Princess created itself. The Twilight Realm and playing as a wolf are some of them, and I don't think they get the credit they deserve when they are so overshadowed by everything that we concentrate on WAY too much: what it took from Ocarina of Time. I don't agree with everything you said, though . . .

Most of those arguments are false.

Most of them are overexaggerated, but most of them also have some truth in them, otherwise people wouldn't complain about it.

Another loathed aspect of Twilight Princess is its poor use of items. The Spinner, Ball and Chain, and Dominion Rod fill space within Link's arsenal without a specific purpose after their respective dungeons. This was a shy away from earlier installments like Ocarina of Time which required not only the traditional bombs and slingshot/bow and arrow from start to finish but other helpful tools like the Longshot and Lens of Truth came in handy along the adventure.

Overshadowing those small faults . . .

I would hardly call this a small fault; it can hinder the experience of all of those other good things listed.

And then there are the superb bosses. From the very first battle against Diababa with Ook's assistance in the Forest Temple it was clear that Twilight Princess was taking a radically different path from its predecessors. Morpheel made exceptional use of the dimensional complexity characterizing water areas with a keen eye required to latch onto the beast, Stallord needed to be pounded with the Spinner until he fell and rose as a sole skull for a riveting finale, Argorok took the fight to the air for the first time in franchise history, and Zant opened the veranda as the penultimate duo unfolded in previous skirmish locales.

I actually didn't think the bosses were one of TP's best points, and they weren't all that different than Ocarina of Times: recognize a pattern, determine a weak spot, attack, repeat until second phase. Repeat. That's not to say that they weren't good, it's just that they weren't terribly unique.

From a depth perspective Twilight Princess blows Ocarina of Time away. The N64 marvel revolved around a cliche tale of Ganondorf usurping power and the fair princess Zelda being forced to flee into exile. The 2006 game, however, burst onto the scene full force with Zant and Midna taking center stage, an aura of mysteriousness encompassing both. This was the first time a rogue faction was incorporated into the Zelda universe-the Twili. At heart the people of the Twilight Realm were good, misunderstood and cast away by the Gods. Acting under the pretext of a false "messiah" or savior Zant was able to recruit forces to wage war on alternate realms.

I actually do agree with this to some extent. Majora's Mask's depth blew OoT away, and TP did too, but in a different way. The storyline was much more active, more was happening and you weren't left on your own a lot. I think this comes down to personal preference.

 

[JuicieJ]

otherwise people wouldn't complain about it.

I'm not trying to counteract what you said (as the overexaggeration thing was spot-on), but you do know that there are fans that complain about things in the Zelda series that shouldn't be complained about, right?

 

[Justac00lguy]

Twilight Princess is my fav Zelda game hands down and the 2nd best game i have ever played and obv there are always flaws with Zelda games and what Twilight Princess did good it did great!

For one the story was epic and it related to A link to the Past with the dark and light worlds but it was also told very well with great cut-scenes and great twists such as when Zant attacks Midna and when Zant reveals the true villain.

The music was the best in Zelda history i thought with great Dungeon music and some of the best pieces of music in the series with the likes of Midna's Lament, Hyrule Field theme, Sacred Grove, ending credits and the Ordon theme as well as the music during cut scenes set the tone.

The graphics were the most realistic in any Zelda game and in places like Lake Hylia, Zora Domain and Hyrule Castle and the detail in the dungeons was also great.

The controls for the Wii were quite basic but it worked very well and was unique at the time.

I thought the overworld was done quite well in certain areas/domains and it was the biggest Zelda game in terms of the size of the map to date but some of Hyrule felt empty.

The Dungeons were very big and were very well designed and offered a good challenge with the likes of Lakebed, Snowpeak and the City in the Sky.

The bosses weren't impressive and were easy but one positive note was that the bosses looked epic!

The game was on the easier side but it still offered some challenge in places and it made up for the lack of challenge by it being the biggest Zelda game to date and finding the Poes, the large amount of heart pieces and the Golden Bugs.

On a whole i thought the game was my favorite and compared with Ocarina of Time of course it will look very similar but both are different in many ways and ofc everyone will dumb down TP compared to Ocarina of Time because it is the best but you have admire TP for what it is and not for what it is not!

 

[Cuju]

Damn! So many words!

I'll keep this short, Twilight Princess' main flaw, from my point of view, is that it is too similar to Ocarina of Time. This isn't actually a flaw, but people like complaining. I played Twilight Princess long before I ever touched Ocarina of Time, and in my opinion, Twilight Princess has nearly everything Ocarina of Time had to offer, but all of those elements were a little deeper. Now, if you look at the elements separately, it's easy to think of Twilight Princess as a copy of "the best game of all time", but when you add all of these elements together, you get, in my opinion, a game that is much deeper, and richer.

I hate that people say it sucks, only because it's so similar to the highest reviewed game ever...

 

[Ventus]

Uh, linearity doesn't define how easy a game is. There are plenty of linear games out there that are pretty stinkin' difficult. If you haven't, go play Portal and Portal 2. I think you'll find those games to be a teensy tiny bit mind-boggling.

For the most part.

I'm not trying to counteract what you said (as the overexaggeration thing was spot-on), but you do know that there are fans that complain about things in the Zelda series that shouldn't be complained about, right?

Like what? I don't see fans complaining about how Link had chainmail in TP, or that his eyes aren't the same shade of blue throughout the series, or that ALttP's hair is pink for whatever reason. All complaints in the Zelda series that I personally have seen AND heard of are legitimate complaints, even if they're overexaggerated.

 

[Emmanuel]

Most of the criticisms I've heard of Twilight Princess have some merit, but they are not enough to keep it from being a truly great game. More than any other Zelda game to date, Twilight Princess had beautiful graphics and an amazing, very rich, scenic overworld. Remember those tremendous bridges connecting the northern and southern parts of Hyrule? There were some practically breath-taking views there. And there was a totally optional side quest where you could just ride in a canoe on a river feeding into Lake Hylia... it was relaxing, beautiful, scenic... and I wish more Zelda games would do something like that.

While some of the items suffered in that they were not required much out of the dungeon in which you receive them, I think this is balanced out by the fact that Twilight Princess introduced new and original items that were just fun to experience. Even though items like the spinner and the ball and chain were not particularly essential outside of their specific dungeons, it was fun using them and finding ways to make them useful in combat since they were such novel items for the Zelda series. (And the double clawshot/hookshot was an excellent and a great addition. No future Zelda game will not have double clawshots.)

In terms of the storyline, Twilight Princess had greater depth than most Zelda games and there is some real investment in many of the characters. Midna was a very fun, useful, likeable partner, unlike many of the other partners in Zelda games who err on the side of being annoying. Twilight Princess also brought some unique elements into the game that made it appealing; transforming into a wolf and exploring the twilight among them. As for the difficulty level, I actually didn't think Twilight Princess was too easy. That may be because I've played Ocarina of Time so many times that I have most of the puzzles and challenges practically memorized, so any new challenge seemed exciting... but I remember the water level in particular being pretty challenging.

Anyway, that's my take. It's interesting because I think that virtually all of the 3D Zelda games released after Ocarina of Time have been technically superior to that game, but yet they can never surpass it. These games have better graphics, longer gameplay, more interesting characters, a deeper story, more immersive overworlds, on and on.. but none of them have had the revolutionary kind of impact that Ocarina of Time had in 1998, so none of them can surpass that legacy. Just my two cents.

 

[JuicieJ]

For the most part.

There's still nothing there argument-wise. Twilight Princess would be just as easy if it were non-linear. The dungeon, overworld, and enemy design wouldn't have to change in order for that to happen.

Like what? I don't see fans complaining about how Link had chainmail in TP, or that his eyes aren't the same shade of blue throughout the series, or that ALttP's hair is pink for whatever reason. All complaints in the Zelda series that I personally have seen AND heard of are legitimate complaints, even if they're overexaggerated.

*Ahem* Graphical complaints, i.e. every 3D game since WW.