• Welcome to ZD Forums! You must create an account and log in to see and participate in the Shoutbox chat on this main index page.

Ocarina of Time Top 5 Reasons Why People Should Stop Looking to Ocarina for a Great Game

Joined
Jul 22, 2011
Location
'Murica
1. It's a simple "Save the world and princess" story; I don't see anything particularly wrong with that.

2. Basic? Yes, completely, and it's a shame that people can't see how far Zelda dungeon design has come since OoT. However, basic isn't exactly bad. OoT just feels very "solid" to me, and some of the dungeons such as the Forest Temple and Spirit Temple still stand out to me today. But yeah, it's very simplistic, not to mention the bosses, while not bad, feel very.... meh... I mean they're fun the first time around, but after playing OoT 3D, it's obvious these bosses weren't built for a fast-paced boss rush.

3. Now, now, let's not start bashing MIDI music. Not everything can be an orchestrated masterpiece, and I hate playing the "well back then" card, but I think it applies well here when I say orchestrated video game soundtracks were nearly non-existent. The compositions are catchy and memorable, and that's all that matters to me. Would a more Skyward Sword approach be better? Absolutely, but what we got was fine.

4. Yup. Although I've never had a problem with "empty" as long as the game has a decent amount of side quests, which it does.

5. Has there ever been a video game that wasn't an MMO/Simulation where the economy was expertly handled? Because I can't think of many. Although it was somewhat of a problem in OoT where literally nothing, except a few mini-games, were worth rupees. Supplies are easily found in pots, which made the Bazaar pretty much useless, but it was there if you wanted it.

It's forever a solid game in my eyes, but very basic by today's standards. People just look upon it too fondly.
 

DarkestLink

Darkest of all Dark Links
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
You're a confusing person, Ventus. I thought OoT was your favorite game? (With MM)
 

Ventus

Mad haters lmao
Joined
May 26, 2010
Location
Akkala
Gender
Hylian Champion
You're a confusing person, Ventus. I thought OoT was your favorite game? (With MM)

Oh they are. But I'm trying to do the complete opposite of what I'd normally say. Controversy and 180s on personalities make for a LOT of good discussion; I love all of the replies I'm getting thus far. The only thing that is lacking is witty replies department. :)
 
Joined
Jul 22, 2011
Location
'Murica
Oh they are. But I'm trying to do the complete opposite of what I'd normally say. Controversy and 180s on personalities make for a LOT of good discussion; I love all of the replies I'm getting thus far. The only thing that is lacking is witty replies department. :)

Compliment Skyward Sword, compliment Skyward Sword!
 

Zorth

#Scoundrel
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
1) The narrative is weak
People will throw many puzzled looks at my direction, but the fact of the matter is that hte narrative is weak. You get spurts of main plot action after every dungeon or so, but nothing else goes on. The world is devoid of any human interaction, with NPCs shouting the same tired lines over and over and over again without fail. The Sages are among the flattest characters Zelda has ever seen. And the poor implied romance at the end? Please don't get me started. OoT is everything cliché, and therefore it is completely bad.

It's a game from the 90's, you can't really expect every single NPC to have it's own little story going on. Character's saying the same stuff is happening in even today's games, only difference is they have multiple lines for the game to choose from randomly. And the game's main plot is knit tightly together by the dungeons, that means that you can't expect random action going on somewhere else in the game since the focus is the temples and restoring their guardian's powers back. This could've been done better I agree, but what people keep pointing out in this unique type of narrative is that it's good enough to every part of the fanbase, the veterans, the casuals and the newcomers etc. Something not a lot of games pull off. So what I'm trying to say is that the story and narrative weren't perfect, nothing is actually perfect in OoT but it was good enough to be kept interested in and not bad enough to pay attention in "flat" characters.


2) The gameplay is basic

It may have been hailed as the greatest of its time, but those are the keywords: of its time. The items are not used to their maximum potential. Ocarina lacks flash. It lacks precision. It lacks depth. The enemies in the game are incredibly monotonous. If they can't be handled with one simplepress of the B button, then they are handled with two. The foes that could pose a threat - Iron Knuckles and Stalfos - spend their time under armor or constantly shuffling with their shield held up. The boss foes are incredibly easy to defeat, all making use of the blatant "here's my weakpoint please hit it" formula. In all Ocarina simply doesn't compare with the more recent entries of Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword.

The point wasn't to make a game that you were supposed to spend a lot of time thinking about enemy tactics and movements nor was the console capable of handling so many different enemies with such AI. The only thing that could've been done better was obviously the boss fights, but that's strictly speaking from a difficulty perspective. Combat wise it was an entire new system, 3D for god sake, nobody really cared how easy it was it was epic seeing these bosses in 3 dimensions and fighting them, they still held relevance to the story and yet again were epic.


3) The musical score is weak

It's all catchy, but it's MIDI grade and frankly not up to par. They couldn't be bothered to fix this even in the 3DS remake. The music is literally lifeless; it's like elevator music that you tune out due to how damn annoying it can get after the 20th exposure.

It's not literally lifeless, it's been complimented on by many experts from the past finding OoT's soundtrack to be a fine piece of music and also fitting to every scenario in the game, dark music for dark areas of the plot to make one feel creeped out and bright music to breath life into other portions of the game. The quality of the musical files shouldn't either be questioned here, Bohemian Rhapsody on an old radio would still be a great song even though the quality isn't that great.

4) Hyrule Field is empty
I'll be damned if someone claims the Sky to be empty, because the fact of the matter is that Hyrule Field is infinitely emptier, if that even makes sense. It's literally lifeless. There's nothing but a plain, a few gates, and trees sparsely located in "key" positions. There are hidden grottoes, but what little there are feature absolutely no substance at all. Just, pathetic.

Again, it's a game from the 90's so you shouldn't really compare to the imaginary game in your head were copious amounts of data for "life" in Hyrule Field can be compressed down to the size of OoT's game file.

5) Rupees.
Yes, that is the reason. Rupees. Ocarina's economy is so jacked up, like, it's to the point where it seems Nintendo WAS working on it, but the jackstands just gave into the weight and it all came crashing down. BAM! SPLAT! KERPOW! And thus the screwed economy was born. I have never played a game where rupees were so darn useless before.

Welcome to every Zelda game ever made.. but still, I'll give you this one ;)

There are many more reasons than I could look for, but those are the top five. What are your opinions? I'm frankly tired of all of this Ocarina rubbish I hear throughout the fanbase. We need to look towards the FUTURE, not reminisce in the past. :/

Simply put, Ocarina is not the game we remember it as. It's mediocre; 6/10 material.

Congratulations!
You have managed to compare a game from 15 years ago with today's standards and managed to bring it's "score" down a few points. I'll be there in a few decades to congratulate you once more when you've compared OoT to the virtual gaming generations and actually give OoT a score of 1/10!!

:rolleyes:

OoT is praised out of mostly because it was a game for everyone, casual, newcomer, hardcore gamer, veteran of the series etc. That's what was so good about it, it has a balance between every aspect of gaming so that anyone could enjoy the game. Which is also why if you go into hardcore details you'll find many "flaws" with the game, but all in all it's so brilliant because it's so simple. Then we also have the aspect of jumping into 3D, which gives you an entire new way of playing the game which for a lot people is why the game is remembered so much, but for me personally who never grew up playing 2D games I never really cared for the 3D but cared for the game itself, the story, the music, the dungeons and the overworld.

***
I guess all I can tell you Vanny is try to think outside the box, hopefully then you'll understand why OoT is still getting praised to this day (which is also exaggerated, I hardly ever hear about the game apart from Zelda sites).
 

ILU

i luv u
Joined
Dec 17, 2011
Many have known me as an OoT fanboy (they aren't wrong in that regard lel), and other stuff. However I am here to set things right. Ocarina of Time simply is NOT the best Zelda, and here is why.
Eh, I think a lot of these points need "In comparison to newer titles" added to them.

1) The narrative is weak
People will throw many puzzled looks at my direction, but the fact of the matter is that hte narrative is weak. You get spurts of main plot action after every dungeon or so, but nothing else goes on. The world is devoid of any human interaction, with NPCs shouting the same tired lines over and over and over again without fail. The Sages are among the flattest characters Zelda has ever seen. And the poor implied romance at the end? Please don't get me started. OoT is everything cliché, and therefore it is completely bad.
The narrative was pretty spectacular for its time, and in my opinion still is. However, like a lot of older games- especially older Zelda games- plot information was established through implications rather than obvious and in your face dialog or cutscenes. Darunia became sworn brothers with Link, a relationship he previously only held with the king of Hyrule. He named his son after the child hero. Years later, it's (debatable, like everything else with Zelda) implied that he dies trying to protect his people. A thief takes a stand against her own king, and her bravery leads to her being abducted, brainwashed, and blasted to tiny particles. Ganondorf plays politics with each of the nations, cursing them when they don't comply, yet still manages to win over the family that united the land to begin with. After all is said and done, Zelda does the best she can to make up for her mistakes.

All of the story elements are very deep, but again, there is little dialog to go with them. If OoT had been remade a few more years down the line and not just "reimagined", then I think that the same story would have been retouched as well, and the story-detail that many games have nowadays would be more than enough to let OoT's story shine.

2) The gameplay is basic
It may have been hailed as the greatest of its time, but those are the keywords: of its time. The items are not used to their maximum potential. Ocarina lacks flash. It lacks precision. It lacks depth. The enemies in the game are incredibly monotonous. If they can't be handled with one simplepress of the B button, then they are handled with two. The foes that could pose a threat - Iron Knuckles and Stalfos - spend their time under armor or constantly shuffling with their shield held up. The boss foes are incredibly easy to defeat, all making use of the blatant "here's my weakpoint please hit it" formula. In all Ocarina simply doesn't compare with the more recent entries of Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword.
I agree with you here, but I don't feel like "basic" is as negative as your post makes it out to be. True, items were not used to maximum potential, and scrapped ideas (like medallion usage) would probably have made a big difference, but the basic gameplay was still fun. Little additions like the backflip and sidestep made all the difference for the game in its time, and I even find them to be more useful in OoT than in games like TWW or TP. But yes, blatant weakpoints were a huge part of the game's battle formula. For its time, thought, it was exciting. I still think the way weak points are exploited in OoT are more fun than in other Zelda games. I think a good example would be in boss battles like with Volvagia or Bongo Bongo where the weak point was obvious but getting to it was fun.

3) The musical score is weak
It's all catchy, but it's MIDI grade and frankly not up to par. They couldn't be bothered to fix this even in the 3DS remake. The music is literally lifeless; it's like elevator music that you tune out due to how damn annoying it can get after the 20th exposure.
I think my only issue with this point is that it's referring to the score itself, not the way it was produced. The music is by far some of the best and most memorable Zelda music in my opinion, and it was even pretty ground-breaking. The fade-in and fade-out effect used in overworld-to-battle sequences was one of the team's greatest achievements for that game. Even for midi files, the music was pretty cool. Yes, it should have received an orchestration for the 3DS, and I'm disappointed it didn't, but music quality and sound quality aren't the same. It didn't bother me when midis were the norm for game music, and it's only now that we've been spoiled with the wonders of technology that I catch myself criticizing the music. The compositions are lovely.

4) Hyrule Field is empty
I'll be damned if someone claims the Sky to be empty, because the fact of the matter is that Hyrule Field is infinitely emptier, if that even makes sense. It's literally lifeless. There's nothing but a plain, a few gates, and trees sparsely located in "key" positions. There are hidden grottoes, but what little there are feature absolutely no substance at all. Just, pathetic.
Yes, Hyrule Field is indeed empty. However, there isn't a lot of time spent in Hyrule Field to really make it that big of a problem. The small amounts of time spent in it are filled with plenty of poe encounters and other trials. I hear this complaint a lot, and while I agree, I just can't really count it against the first half of the game. However, in the second part we are given a horse. A HORSE! The most wonderful thing to grace the games since the Pegasus Shoes, and there was nothing to do and nowhere to go. This same feeling was present in Skyward Sword, but the difference is that flying has a lot less limitations than ground travel, so Skyward Sword had less of a reason to be as terrible as it was travel-wise.

5) Rupees.
Yes, that is the reason. Rupees. Ocarina's economy is so jacked up, like, it's to the point where it seems Nintendo WAS working on it, but the jackstands just gave into the weight and it all came crashing down. BAM! SPLAT! KERPOW! And thus the screwed economy was born. I have never played a game where rupees were so darn useless before.
I can't really argue with ANYONE when it comes to Zelda economy, because I feel like how good/bad it is ties into the skill and preferences of the individual players. I NEVER notice rupee problems until somebody else points them out because I rarely find a need to collect them or have trouble doing so. I don't often buy potions unless there is a new addition to the series and I'm curious. I don't buy much, really, so maybe there's a problem there too. I'm aware there is a rupee problem, but I think it's in every Zelda game and I can't really count it against OoT if every other game has the same problem.

Now, don't get me wrong here.... OoT has never been my favorite Zelda game, and it probably never will. I didn't think it was deserving of all the praise it received for its time, but I also think a lot of its criticism is unwarranted. I do, however, think that it has aged better than a lot of the other installements, and I feel like it's still one of the best Zelda games to be used as an introduction to the series. I think there is a lot to look back on and use as inspiration for future titles, but at the same time, a lot of those elements were present in its predecessor, A Link to the Past, so I often feel like the praise OoT receives is going to the wrong title.
 

Salem

SICK
Joined
May 18, 2013
I don't see the hate for cut scenes in more recent Zelda games. They're very subtle, maybe some would say rare, they're not a burden in my opinion. Cinematics are just an overall easier way to tell a story, we can have scenes which include interactions between characters, which generates a better picture of the ongoing events. We generally get to see Link or other characters convey emotion, it would be hard for this to be the case without said cut scenes. So the cinematics just set the tone in my opinion, if anything there should be more.

Of course these seem to be your own personal preferences, like you said, and I respect such views, can't argue with such opinions. However, I though that Ocarina of Time has the most basic of stories, if you really look at it -- it only had a couple of plot points. I'm getting the feeling though that you maybe prefer, a more subtle story in Zelda games though, which is fine. Me I would like more of a story driven Zeldasomething which I can maybe relate to, something that will put me in that set piece and help me understand the goings on that little bit better. I feel a story is more than just what it tells, it impacts and compliments other aspects in the game. Like I said though it's fine to have that view :p I'm just stating mine.
Cutscenes aren't the only things I talked about.

On the subject of cutscenes I don't think cinematics/cutscenes should be the goal itself, telling a good story in a video game is more than just cutscenes. They can be used to show us something that normal gameplay can't.
 

Ventus

Mad haters lmao
Joined
May 26, 2010
Location
Akkala
Gender
Hylian Champion
ocarina of time was one of the most disappointing games i've ever played b/c of the high expectations i had for this 'greatest game ever made',stupid fanboys...

Even without all that hype the game is still bland, how dare someone call that remotely good? It's mediocre, it is broken by its very core. Complete a game in 25 minutes? Hah! That is hilarious. I have never touched such a bad game in my life.
 

Sir Quaffler

May we meet again
Well ok I think you're hyperbolizing on a few aspects, but it's good that people are looking at OoT under a more critical light. To start with:

-Narrative: Ok I can see that nowadays. Now that I have played games with far stronger narratives (SS and Okami, right off my head) I can see the simplicity in OoT's. But I don't think it's really all that bad. Or maybe it really is bad but I'm still blinded by my love for the game; for 10 years it and MM were my absolute favorite games, so there's still some fallout from their toppling.

-Basic gameplay: Perhaps so, but I still don't have a problem with it. True, nowadays I much prefer SS's gameplay to... well, pretty much everything else out there, but disregarding that particular game OoT and MM are still my favorite in terms of gameplay. I know the basic game like the back of my hand, so nowadays I spend my time in OoT messing around and seeing what I can get away with, as well as 3-heart and minimalistic challenges.

-Musical score: Compared to live orchestrated music and most stuff out these days, yes they are worse in terms of fidelity. But they are catchy as hell, and they are stuck in my head from now til kingdom come. So, technically worse but I still love them.

-empty Hyrule Field: Yes, absolutely yes. I much prefer The Sky and Termina Field because there's lots of stuff to do (and you don't have to wait around forever to get anywhere - looking right at you The Great Sea!).

-useless Rupees: Also absolutely true. Up until recently, the series has had real trouble with creating a balanced economy. I would always have full Rupees all the time and never needed to spend on anything but the really big stuff because I could just find everything else out in the open. Finally SS fixed that and actually made my Rupees worth something & more difficult to run across.

...okay maybe I just used this as an excuse to heap even more praise on SS, but that's because of this:
We need to look towards the FUTURE, not reminisce in the past.
This attitude is what finally broke me of my blind love for OoT/MM and allowed me to see the new games for all the good that they really are. I know I go on a lot here about SS, but I honestly hope that the next console Zelda game builds upon and surpasses SS. I always want improvement; like what Ventus said, look to the future instead of reminisce about the past.
 

Johnny Sooshi

Just a sleepy guy
Joined
Nov 1, 2011
Location
a Taco Bell dumpster
1) The narrative is weak
People will throw many puzzled looks at my direction, but the fact of the matter is that hte narrative is weak. You get spurts of main plot action after every dungeon or so, but nothing else goes on. The world is devoid of any human interaction, with NPCs shouting the same tired lines over and over and over again without fail. The Sages are among the flattest characters Zelda has ever seen. And the poor implied romance at the end? Please don't get me started. OoT is everything cliché, and therefore it is completely bad.

I can agree with you there. I was never enthralled with the story to the same degree that something like Twilight Princess, Skyward Sword, or even Minish Cap. Ocarina of Time's story was basically "Hey the tree is sick, oh there's a bad man, gotta go get to the temple to time, now I'm an adult, time to save Zelda." Forgive me for being callous, but that's how I always viewed the story. It was straight forward and didn't have many layers of depth in my opinion. I could see the ending coming from a mile away.


2) The gameplay is basic
It may have been hailed as the greatest of its time, but those are the keywords: of its time. The items are not used to their maximum potential. Ocarina lacks flash. It lacks precision. It lacks depth. The enemies in the game are incredibly monotonous. If they can't be handled with one simplepress of the B button, then they are handled with two. The foes that could pose a threat - Iron Knuckles and Stalfos - spend their time under armor or constantly shuffling with their shield held up. The boss foes are incredibly easy to defeat, all making use of the blatant "here's my weakpoint please hit it" formula. In all Ocarina simply doesn't compare with the more recent entries of Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword.

Basic isn't always bad. In some games basic makes for enjoyable and iconic. However I do understand the sentiment here. I enjoy the multi-tiered take downs of Twilight Princess and the figure it out yourself style from Minish Cap. Both of those had boss fights like that, where the solutions wasn't always the most obvious one. Now the standard enemy combat holds to be the same from game to game, though in Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword, I think the problem solving and step-by-step takedowns were also very engaging. Twilight Princess accomplished this with Aerofols and Darknuts while Skyward Sword's enemy AI made even fights against a simple Bokoblin a process in comparison to other games.


3) The musical score is weak
It's all catchy, but it's MIDI grade and frankly not up to par. They couldn't be bothered to fix this even in the 3DS remake. The music is literally lifeless; it's like elevator music that you tune out due to how damn annoying it can get after the 20th exposure.

I'll definitely agree to that, though some iconic songs did arise from Ocarina of Time. But you can't judge the musical score on the original to harshly considering they had just started with the 64bit gaming system and didn't know how far it could go. In addition, the cartridges back that couldn't store symphonic works that have the caliber of what many games can do today.

That being said, I was disappointed in the lack of update on the tracks in Ocarina of Time 3D. The were the exact same, and while that's not horrible, for a remake it doesn't help out. Considering the graphics got a great makeover, you'd think Nintendo would have put a bit more effort into the musical composition.


4) Hyrule Field is empty
I'll be damned if someone claims the Sky to be empty, because the fact of the matter is that Hyrule Field is infinitely emptier, if that even makes sense. It's literally lifeless. There's nothing but a plain, a few gates, and trees sparsely located in "key" positions. There are hidden grottoes, but what little there are feature absolutely no substance at all. Just, pathetic.

I'll agree with you there too. As a kid when I first played it, it was great. But looking back in comparison with Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess, it's very much lacking. No enemies in the day, and at night the enemies don't offer much challenge. It'd be one thing if you had to collect experience to level up or something because then it'd be a subpar grind area at best, but it doesn't have that, which makes it useless. In the end, the only real reason Hyrule Field is there is to provide existence for Lon Lon Ranch so you can get a horse, which wouldn't even be necessary if it was just smaller in the first place.


5) Rupees.
Yes, that is the reason. Rupees. Ocarina's economy is so jacked up, like, it's to the point where it seems Nintendo WAS working on it, but the jackstands just gave into the weight and it all came crashing down. BAM! SPLAT! KERPOW! And thus the screwed economy was born. I have never played a game where rupees were so darn useless before.

I honestly never found a use for the Rupees. Other than buying necessary items like shields and tunics, the rupees had absolutely no use to me. Most enemies dropped hearts, bombs, arrows, magic, deku seeds, or deku sticks, and you can find all those things in smaller chests or pots. So really, rupees seemed unnecessary. Twilight Princess made them a little necessary, especially if you wanted to use the magic armor, while Skyward Sword and Minish Cap had me scrambling for rupees whenever I could get my hands on them.





So overall, I can agree with this. Ocarina of time was not the best Zelda game. Of course, I've never been an Ocarina of Time fanboy :P

I will still support it as one of the best games of its time, since it revolutionized Zelda games as we know them. Does that mean it's still amazing? No, but it does at least deserve recognition for the first 3D Zelda game, and the structural template for Twilight Princess (not saying Twilight Princess is a carbon copy, but it is very similar in certain aspects).
 

basement24

There's a Bazooka in TP!
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Location
Ontario, Canada
I don't know if I can agree with this, because mostly these are comments on a game from a certain era. The choices you made to argue this here are against technical limitations of the day. (Except for perhaps the rupee argument, but that could be said to be a first move by Nintendo in an attempt to help people through their games easier).

I think when most people say it's the best of the series is because it did what it did very well, and perhaps not much innovation has happened since. Many have argued that all of the full console Zeldas are reskins of OoT, and while they may look prettier, they just didn't do much else new to make them better than the game that did it first. Yes, it's of an era, but it can't be discounted that it's a tight game. I have played many a new game that are broken in comparison, despite their Hollywood budgets, HD graphics and full orchestral musical scores.

I should say too that I'm not an out-and-out Ocarina fan either despite my own personal history with playing the game and what it meant, and still means, to me. I have often said that Twilight Princess is the superior of the two, but not because of the surface gloss applied by time.

By these definitions you've chosen, only the newest Zelda is able to be the best Zelda game ever, and I don't think that is necessarily the case.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom