Timeline of Startimer (draft)

[Zemen]

Um...yeah but she specifically says that when peace in Hyrule crumbles the one with the symbol will apear.

Please stop bending/twisting the quote to make it fit your own context. If need be I'll get Japanese translations for this.

Do it then, please. I want to know what they have to say about this part of OoX with Zelda bringing up Hyrule.

As DL01 said, she could have just been referring to past legends. Based on Hyrule's history, a Link has always appeared when peace in Hyrule has crumbled and they all, in some way or another, have that mark on their hand. She notices the mark and based on the legends, it is the mark of the hero who appears when peace in Hyrule crumbles. Like DL01 said, it doesn't have to mean that peace in Hyrule HAS crumbled, just that he bears the mark of past heroes who have appeared when peace in Hyrule HAD crumbled in the past.

By the way, that was an amazing analogy, DL01.

 

[sign of table]

Let's say Brett Favre is trying to save Minnesota from a threat. He is originally from Wisconsin and has saved them from many threats. When I (from Wisconsin) talk to him, even though it is completely irrelevant to Minnesota, I would still bring up great deeds that he is legendary for.

Uhm not quite. If Brett Favre was trying to save Minnesota, then you told him that his insane amount of passing yards are the mark of the QB who is supposed to appear when peace in Wisconsin crumbles, while peace hasn't crumbled in Wisconsin, then it would be completely irrelevant.

Link is trying to save Labrynna/Holodrum from a threat. He is originally from Hyrule where previous Links have stopped previous threats. When Zelda (who is from Hyrule) talks to him and notices that he bears the mark of past heroes who have saved her land, she is going to bring it up even though it is irrelevant to the current situation. Maybe she brought it up because that was her way of showing how hopeful she was. "Past heroes with that same mark have saved Hyrule. Maybe this means you have a good chance of saving this place."

Her way of showing how hopeful she was? This was right as Link saved Zelda, you know. Then about 5 minutes later she says that peace can be restored to the hearts of the people.

You help me out again! I love you. So we have proved that Link can have the mark when peace in Hyrule is not crumbling. That was SoJs main point to this whole argument and someone who is arguing with him just disproved it. Thank you.

Different marks mean different things. AoL mark was because he was supposed to awaken Zelda. OoX mark was because he was supposed to restore peace to Hyrule. All the other marks mean he has the Triforce.

Its not completely irrelevant. It would be like, okay take Spider-Man for example. He usually shows up when bad things are going down in New York, right?

Well, say he gets word that somewhere way off in China, something is going down, and they need Spider-Man to go there. So he would go there, fix the problem, and be a hero. Someone in China, visiting from New York, might notice him, and say "Hey, your that guy who suddenly shows up when a bad guy is around in New York!" It would be the same concept.

Spider-Man is well known in New York for showing up when bad stuff is hapening there. People from NY recognize him. The same goes for Link. There are legends of him showing up when things go down in Hyrule. Its not unlikely that Zelda and Impa, two people from Hyrule who are closely tied with the legends and secrets of the place, would recognize Link as a hero.

The mark of the hero has nothing to do with peace in previous games, however.

 

[Pinecove]

Link. The three triangles on the back of your left hand represent power, wisdom, and courage. They are the sign of the hero who will surely appear when Hyrule’s peace is disturbed.

Here we are. This doesn't mention peace crumbaling but being disturbed. And if Zelda was kidnaped and weird reports were being flown in to Hyrule about Holodrum/labrynna being under attack the peace certainly WOULD be disturbed.

Also SoJ I have something to discuss with you in PM.

 

[Zemen]

Here we are. This doesn't mention peace crumbaling but being disturbed. And if Zelda was kidnaped and weird reports were being flown in to Hyrule about Holodrum/labrynna being under attack the peace certainly WOULD be disturbed.

Also SoJ I have something to discuss with you in PM.

We know that there is a war going on in the Middle East and as terrible as that is, are we any less peaceful in our everyday lives because of it? No.

 

[Pinecove]

We know that there is a war going on in the Middle East and as terrible as that is, are we any less peaceful in our everyday lives because of it? No.

Opinon is opinion. I for one am very disturbed about the war in the middle east. I'm also disturbed about the US economy even though I live in Canada.

 

[sign of table]

We know that there is a war going on in the Middle East and as terrible as that is, are we any less peaceful in our everyday lives because of it? No.

We don't have a threat coming to us from the Middle East. And if you don't think we're any less peaceful in our everyday lives, you've never watched the news (however over the top they may portray things, we are clearly affected by it).

Remember when North Korea was threatening to nuke us? Now of course they wouldn't, but if they were flying their planes over to us to drop the bombs onto us, I can GUARANTEE we would be less peaceful.

Same thing if the Demon King of Darkness was being arisen and the princess of the kingdom had been taken hostage.

You're saying that if the first daughters of the US were taken hostage to be sacrificed to summon the Demon King of Darkness to this world, we would still be as peaceful as we are now?

No that is 100% ridiculous.

 

[MrMosley]

Same thing if the Demon King of Darkness was being arisen and the princess of the kingdom had been taken hostage.

You're saying that if the first daughters of the US were taken hostage to be sacrificed to summon the Demon King of Darkness to this world, we would still be as peaceful as we are now?

No that is 100% ridiculous.

See that is a good point. Hyrule would be distressed knowing their princess was taken hostage. But there is a problem with this that contradicts LA's BS. Ganon had nothing to do with taking Zelda hostage. Now, he did in ALttP, because he was controlling Agahnim. But in OoX, it was Twinrova, and they were acting alone. They were acting in order to ultimately revive Ganon, but it was not Ganon working through them as it was in ALttP.

What I'm getting at is, one key point of LA's manual stated that Link saved Hyrule from Ganon's tyranny. You may have something different in the Japanese one, I don't know. But I would be almost willing to bet that it says roughly the same thing. It is speaking in reference to Ganon directly having an influence over Hyrule. This was present in ALttP; It was not in OoX. Ganon never did anything to threaten Hyrule in OoX. There is nothing saying some messenger was running back and forth to Hyrule broadcasting the news of what was going on in Labrynna/Holodrum. No one in Hyrule probably even know about anything that happened in Labrynna/Holodrum until Zelda got back.

Ganon was in control during ALttP. He had control over everything that transpired from the time he was sealed in the SR to the time that he sent Agahnim to break that seal. In OoX, he did nothing. Twinrova were the masterminds behind everything that transpired in those games, and LA's manual surely makes no reference to those two.

 

[startimer]

Ok, I just got online and look at what happened to my thread! I have a simple request: can all of you be a little nicer to each other and try to focus on the timeline? kkthnx

That being said, I believe that Holodrum/Labrynna bieng a part of Hyrule is unlikely, though possible. I mean, the very bottom section of the AoL map is the map fom LoZ.

And one thing I'd like to bring up: why would people be worried about Ganon if he his very, very dead. Could it be that he'd recently been revived and they're worried it might happen again?

just thought I'd throw that out there, with the way this discussion is going I might finally submit and change my timeline to Alttp/LA...

 

[sign of table]

But I would be almost willing to bet that it says roughly the same thing.

But it DOES say something different. Read it. It says that he returned peace to Hyrule by defeating Ganon.

Go check it out. It doesn't say anything about ANY tyranny over Hyrule. Just that peace was returned by defeating Ganon. Which is EXACTLY what happens in OoX.

Here is the EXACT quote, word for word:
"You, who regained the peace of Hyrule from the demonic hands of the king of evil, Ganon" That is ALL the Japanese has to say about Ganon. Peace was disturbed in OoX. You defeat Ganon. Peace is restored.

Those are facts about OoX. And that works just fine with the LA manual.

 

[Zemen]

But it DOES say something different. Read it. It says that he returned peace to Hyrule by defeating Ganon.

Go check it out. It doesn't say anything about ANY tyranny over Hyrule. Just that peace was returned by defeating Ganon. Which is EXACTLY what happens in OoX.

Here is the EXACT quote, word for word:
"You, who regained the peace of Hyrule from the demonic hands of the king of evil, Ganon" That is ALL the Japanese has to say about Ganon. Peace was disturbed in OoX. You defeat Ganon. Peace is restored.

Those are facts about OoX. And that works just fine with the LA manual.

It says "from the demonic hands of the king of evil, Ganon" which seems to be another way of saying that Link stopped the tyranny of Ganon. It is pretty clearly saying that Ganon had some sort of rule/tyranny/power over Hyrule, which DL01 did a good job of explaining that he had no rule over anything in OoX, and if he did it wasn't over Hyrule which still does not match up with the BS of LA. ALTTP fits PERFECTLY with the BS of LA. Link stopped Ganons power over Hyrule and restored peace to Hyrule which Piney provided multiple quotes from ALTTP of people specifically saying that he restored peace to Hyrule at the end of ALTTP (and people saying he is the hero who will return peace during ALTTP). ALTTP fits much, much better with the BS of LA than OoX ever will.

 

[MrMosley]

BHere is the EXACT quote, word for word:
"You, who regained the peace of Hyrule from the demonic hands of the king of evil, Ganon" That is ALL the Japanese has to say about Ganon. Peace was disturbed in OoX. You defeat Ganon. Peace is restored.

Those are facts about OoX. And that works just fine with the LA manual.

Right, it could work with LA's manual, if you put it in that way like you are saying it. But what I'm saying, and what my point has been all this time, is that it makes way more sense, and is easier, to have that manual be talking about ALttP.

The vibe I'm getting from trying to put OoX as a prequel to LA is almost like trying to fit a circular block into a triangular opening. Just maybe, if you work with it hard enough, you can make it fit, but only barely. And even then, you have to probably damage the triangular opening a bit. And that's kinda what has happened here. My reasoning is simply, the triangular block fits perfectly in the triangular opening... So why try and jam any other shapes through there?

That one specific quote was not all that different, either. It stated that you saved Hyrule from the demonic hands of Ganon. That is the key point of the entire quote. It implies, quite clearly, that Hyrule was under the danger by Ganon's hands. In ALttP, this was prominant. Agahnim, controlled by Ganon, was wreaking havok in Hyrule. In OoX, Ganon was revived by Twinrova, who were the ring-leaders of those titles. Ganon wasn't even in control of anything, nor did he have his "hands on Hyrule" whatsoever. Twinrova had complete control over the rituals and everything in those. If anyone was even coming close to threatening Hyrule, it would have been them, not Ganon.

 

[sign of table]

Right, it could work with LA's manual, if you put it in that way like you are saying it. But what I'm saying, and what my point has been all this time, is that it makes way more sense, and is easier, to have that manual be talking about ALttP.

There we go. I won't object with that. I don't really care if you think LttP/LA works better; because it very well might. But saying OoX/LA is impossible... it's just stupid to say it's impossible.

That is the key point of the entire quote. It implies, quite clearly, that Hyrule was under the danger by Ganon's hands.

I'd say it's easily in danger by Ganon's hands in OoX. He did cause a lot of trouble and clearly Hyrule wasn't at peace. I'd say OoX quite easily applies to LAs BS.

I have absolutely no problem with you placing it LttP/LA. What I have a problem with, however, is you guys saying that Ganon having tyranny over Hyrule (which is an opinion (it's an understandable opinion, but it's an opinion nevertheless)) means that it 100% can't fit OoX at all. Because it very, very, very easily may not work that way.

 

[startimer]

Yes. La's manual fits perfectly into Alttp. Why? cuz it was made to fit perfectly into Alttp. OoX didn't exist when that manual was written. The creators don't let story issues limit thier creativity. So one day they had an idea, 'lets make two game that connect to each other'. To do that, the games had to take place outside Hyrule, seeing as having Hyrule attacked twice within a matter of weeks sounds unreasonable. Now that the two-country concept is down, they can't include Ganon, because Ganon can't be in two places at once. But if they were making a prequal to LA, Ganon had to be in there somewhere so that it fits at least a little into LA's BS. Otherwise Ganon would be completely absent. I think this pretty much sums up the differences between LA's BS and OoX. Plus, OoX contains enough subtle hints (including that sailing-away ending) for you to put two and two together.

I mean, OoT and FSA don't match up to Alttp's BS. And MC has differences from the FS BS.

So I think I explained it pretty well, now to see what everyone else thinks.

 

[Zemen]

Yes. La's manual fits perfectly into Alttp. Why? cuz it was made to fit perfectly into Alttp. OoX didn't exist when that manual was written. The creators don't let story issues limit thier creativity. So one day they had an idea, 'lets make two game that connect to each other'. To do that, the games had to take place outside Hyrule, seeing as having Hyrule attacked twice within a matter of weeks sounds unreasonable. Now that the two-country concept is down, they can't include Ganon, because Ganon can't be in two places at once. But if they were making a prequal to LA, Ganon had to be in there somewhere so that it fits at least a little into LA's BS. Otherwise Ganon would be completely absent. I think this pretty much sums up the differences between LA's BS and OoX. Plus, OoX contains enough subtle hints (including that sailing-away ending) for you to put two and two together.

I mean, OoT and FSA don't match up to Alttp's BS. And MC has differences from the FS BS.

So I think I explained it pretty well, now to see what everyone else thinks.

But if they wanted OoX to be the direct prequel to LA then they would have changed ALTTP to the point where it didn't fit perfectly with LAs BS. They retconned ALTTP and it still fit perfectly with LAs BS. It's obvious that's where they want it.

 

[fiercedeity619]

But if they wanted OoX to be the direct prequel to LA then they would have changed ALTTP to the point where it didn't fit perfectly with LAs BS. They retconned ALTTP and it still fit perfectly with LAs BS. It's obvious that's where they want it.

you really think that they would remake an entire game for that? yes they made it for the gameboy advance BUT they only did that so that people would play it if they didn't have the NES or SNES