The Future of the Hylian Knight Usergroup

[Sir Quaffler]

I've been riding the fence on the matter, but Blue Reptile's post has helped convinced me now: in practice the Hylian Knight rank doesn't serve much purpose and should be abolished.

My decision has nothing to do with any supposed bias the Knights might have or it being an exclusive club or anything like that. Frankly, I support the underlying idea of there being recognized role models that new members and regulars alike can look up to for thought-provoking posts, good community behavior, friendly advice, etc., and I support the idea that those same role models as well as forum staff get the vote on who gets such recognition (due to the fairly unbiased manner of voting). And in theory the Knights should be these people. Unfortunately due to the nature of knighthood this doesn't seem to actually happen, and it's due to the "purple laziness" described. Once somebody gets a shiny new rank, the natural tendency is to sit on your laurels and not continually prove your worthiness as role model, which defeats the purpose of receiving that recognition in the first place.

I do want members who prove themselves to be community role models to be recognized as such. And I do think the Hylian Knights was a noble attempt at such recognition. But I don't think it's the right way to go about it anymore. Perhaps a more personal recognition, such as the individual PM's described, would be more effective in practice.

 

[Seth]

...as it's clear that people don't view them as role-models anymore.

This brings up an interesting point, do people actually see HKs as role models?

This isn't rhetorical, I honestly want to know.

Personally, I never did. Not that I didn't view individual members well or anything like that, but as a whole I never understood the point of the rank and never saw behavior presented from them any better then multitudes of other members. I've even seen HKs behave in pretty trollish awful ways. I won't name names, but this was a while ago anyway. I do realize things have changed so far as electing HKs in that regard but my feelings still stand.

 

[Mamono101]

I've always thought that the purpose of the HK rank was to recognise users for consistently upholding the forum rules and contributing to threads with content at a level that far exceeds that of other users. Having stayed away from the political side of the forum, I never knew what the selection process entailed and I can't speak for all users but I don't think that the criterion to become one is very clear.

I don't think removing the rank altogether would affect the website but perhaps the question of "what is the purpose of the HK rank?" should have been addressed first rather than jumping straight to "should we get rid of it?". Perhaps if the parameters of their purpose for the forum was redefined, and as Azure suggests, the selection process made within the public eye, it wouldn't feel like some sort of secret society to some users. I'm not saying that the voting has to be open to all forum members (though I don't see why it should be exclusively HKs only either) actually seeing the process could help to relieve tensions on either side of this argument.

Do people actually see HKs as role models?

There are some HKs that I did see as role models. Spirit of Rutela is the main person I think of when I envision what a HK should be. I remember how she actively made it her mission to live up to the standard of what she thought a HK should represent and I certainly felt as if she was a role model.

In saying that, I can see the other side of the argument as well: Not only knights are role models. I know this to be true as there are others on this forum who I look up to that don't have any ranks at all (or at least didn't when I first met them).

(I hope my train of thought makes sense as it is very early in the morning where I am right now. So if this isn't as coherent as it seems in my head, I apologise and I will edit this later after I get some sleep.)

 

[Firice da Vinci]

This brings up an interesting point, do people actually see HKs as role models?

This isn't rhetorical, I honestly want to know.

This is probably because I was only 11 when I joined, but I did find the HKs to be role models. I thought that I had to make long, detailed posts in the Zelda sections. I thought that was the way to be the best member one could be. My activity dropped because of this and I was discouraged to make posts that did not fit the bill. I had barely played any Zelda games and hardy knew the lore. What could I, some random kid, ever contribute to a form?

Later on, it occurred to me that the HKs, along with other colored usernames, did not always make "high-quality" comments. Some of them played Mafia, "spammed" the forum games, spent the majority of their time in the old shoutbox, and so on. Because of this, I started to relax and post wherever I wanted to. I do not necessarily envy the Knights now that I have become comfortable on the forums. I remember more of the names on here and got to know some of their personalities more; nowadays, the Knights seem just as standard as everyone else. I have my own role models and assimilate other members' post quality from time to time. I still rarely post in the Zelda sections like I should on a Zelda forum; it matters less to me and I know that I am just staying true to myself.

In the end, the knights did play a big part in my early ZD years and are part of the reason that I am still active today. I have no clue how other new members view the Hylian Knights, but I would not want to see them go based off of how much they helped me in the past.

 

[Dan]

I agree with what SirQ Blue and SethaRoo have been saying. The rank is supposed to highlight role-models, I may not agree that those select people are role-models. Creating all these systems and putting all this work into what is essentially a miniature label seems a bit redundant to me. People can easily decide for themselves quite quickly who in their eyes is a role-model. I don't need a select few to tell me who a role-model is, I can decide that myself. It's a system that needs so much work and adds so little benefit. A lot of faith has been lost in the system altogether, it's a melting pot of arguments and debates, I want to see it gone, role-models and great posts won't vanish along with the rank. Great posters post on their own incentive, great role models display great behavior because that is who they are.

 

[Sydney]

I'm really confused why you bothered to post this thread now when you've promised a change in the near future. I'm not sure if this is your way of telling us you're lazy, or your way of telling us you simply do not care. Thareous, I believe it was you who promised a new system and new promotions by October, did you not? If so, why are you posting this thread now? If the votes to remove outweigh the votes to keep, then your promise is meaningless.

I would've posted this thread after you've gone ahead with any changes, and then get the community's opinion on it. This is just really poor planning...

 

[A Link In Time]

I'm really confused why you bothered to post this thread now when you've promised a change in the near future. I'm not sure if this is your way of telling us you're lazy, or your way of telling us you simply do not care. Thareous, I believe it was you who promised a new system and new promotions by October, did you not? If so, why are you posting this thread now? If the votes to remove outweigh the votes to keep, then your promise is meaningless.

I would've posted this thread after you've gone ahead with any changes, and then get the community's opinion on it. This is just really poor planning...

The posting of this thread has nothing to do with Thareous, and he is in no way accountable for "poor planning".

Mases recently had an epiphany that perhaps the Hylian Knight and Hylian Noble groups should be removed; he appears to no longer care either way. I then received word that he wanted a Community Coordinator to pose this question to the community. Out of respect for the Hylian Nobles being Mases' personal "Hall of Fame", I've left the decision concerning that rank to him.

 

[Sydney]

The posting of this thread has nothing to do with Thareous, and he is in no way accountable for "poor planning".

Mases recently had an epiphany that perhaps the Hylian Knight and Hylian Noble groups should be removed; he appears to no longer care either way. I then received word that he wanted a Community Coordinator to pose this question to the community. Out of respect for the Hylian Nobles being Mases' personal "Hall of Fame", I've left the decision concerning that rank to him.

Mases should've been aware that they were going to change the system, why did he have you ask now instead of wait for said change?

 

[Seth]

Mases should've been aware that they were going to change the system

Yeah, but this is Mases we're talking about...

 

[CynicalSquid]

This brings up an interesting point, do people actually see HKs as role models?

I did. Until the rank sort of fell apart and a lot of HKs resigned.

But now that they are promising change and and bringing the system back to life, I feel like we should give them a chance.

 

[Jamie]

Mases should've been aware that they were going to change the system, why did he have you ask now instead of wait for said change?

I think this is an unfair question to ask ALIT. Mases is effectively not even a part of the forums, and there is no actual way to know what he was thinking. At first your goal was to call out Thareous. After you found out this wasn't Thareous's doing, instead of apologizing you have decided to try to still place the blame on someone, and I can't for the life of me figure out why. Most people who are voting against the HK rank are not doing it based on their lack of promotions, so I honestly don't think it's even relevant.

 

[Sydney]

I think this is an unfair question to ask ALIT. Mases is effectively not even a part of the forums, and there is no actual way to know what he was thinking. At first your goal was to call out Thareous. After you found out this wasn't Thareous's doing, instead of apologizing you have decided to try to still place the blame on someone, and I can't for the life of me figure out why. Most people who are voting against the HK rank are not doing it based on their lack of promotions, so I honestly don't think it's even relevant.

The issue with the HK rank is that the system doesn't even work, and my initial question for Thareous was that he made a promise that we'd have a new, functioning system by October. But with the creation of this thread which will only be open for two weeks, the rank could be abolished altogether before the new system can even be tested. So yes, I did call out Thareous because if we don't keep the rank, he can't keep his promise. Though, after hearing that this is an issue with Mases, I'd like to apologize to Thareous (sorry tharbok :*). I would like to argue, however, that I am indeed shifting the blame because it is relevant. Though I'm happy that Mases has finally taken interest in the forums, it's evident that he lacks complete involvement, otherwise he would have waited to have someone post this thread until after the new system was up and running.

 

[Jamie]

I think we are all fully aware that Mases doesn't care about the forums. Neither does the forum admin, so I think I can safely say I am far from surprised.

 

[Seth]

The issue with the HK rank is that the system doesn't even work, and my initial question for Thareous was that he made a promise that we'd have a new, functioning system by October. But with the creation of this thread which will only be open for two weeks, the rank could be abolished altogether before the new system can even be tested. So yes, I did call out Thareous because if we don't keep the rank, he can't keep his promise. Though, after hearing that this is an issue with Mases, I'd like to apologize to Thareous (sorry tharbok :*). I would like to argue, however, that I am indeed shifting the blame because it is relevant. Though I'm happy that Mases has finally taken interest in the forums, it's evident that he lacks complete involvement, otherwise he would have waited to have someone post this thread until after the new system was up and running.

That's not 100% true. Personally, my issue with HK isn't the current system, it's that I think the entire idea of the HK is in itself a flawed idea. I know I am not the only one who feels this way. Maybe it would be better to wait after, I don't know, but the issue is a bit deeper then that.

 

[Ronin]

I'm really confused why you bothered to post this thread now when you've promised a change in the near future. I'm not sure if this is your way of telling us you're lazy, or your way of telling us you simply do not care. Thareous, I believe it was you who promised a new system and new promotions by October, did you not? If so, why are you posting this thread now? If the votes to remove outweigh the votes to keep, then your promise is meaningless.

I would've posted this thread after you've gone ahead with any changes, and then get the community's opinion on it. This is just really poor planning...

If you are referring to me in your first sentence, I'm not the one who posted the thread; Alit is the OP. I frankly had no idea that the thread was made until I saw someone viewing it on the "Who's Online" page. Nobody had let me know ahead of time or else I would have urged them to hear me out and presented proof that the new system was in effect. Well, I still could if the community was willing enough, but the majority of them seem to be opposed to the position no matter what, so I wouldn't be doing it solely to persuade them; I'd be doing it to prove that things are in motion. I simply don't want to see that motion go to waste.

This really isn't poor planning, so much as it as an extremely ill-timed reversal of our attempts to rebound from inertia. I could understand this question popping up two months ago when no serious process was being considered, but right now is immensely inconvenient since a new system has been established and several nominations are showing promise. I'm going to maintain what I said earlier in that by October, a large amount of these nominations would have gone through. Again, at least a couple are sitting on the 40% approval mark, with ample room for more votes to come in the two following months. However, none of them would actually go through until October rolls around since we'd still need time to discuss further about a nominee rather than rushing the process.