Team Fortress 2: Mann vs. Machine

[Sadia]

Awwww, this SUCKS. I joined a mafia game after so long, only to be killed night 1. XD

Go get em' Town!

 

[Pen]

It is a shame to see Sadia leave us. Though at least we lost only one Townie tonight, and we now know that Vanilla Townies exist in this game (unless this is the work of a Recycler, but I seriously doubt that). Anyway, assuming Malon is truthful in his role claim, I am happy to see he is still alive today.

Also, regarding my very minor suspicion of Johnny from yesterday, I now have no grounds for that suspicion at all seeing as VTs are now confirmed.

The other person she called out is Toxic_Snowman for believing Storm was town. @Toxic_Snowman Why did you hold this belief? Perhaps you already mentioned it previously, and I missed the detail, but I think it would be helpful if you could restate your last day position about Storm to start off this day. Coincidentally enough, you were also one of the people who was in support of a no lynch, which would favor the mafia more than it would help the town.

I think you are making some good points about Toxic Snowman here, ALIT. Definitely worth looking into. I will backtrack in the thread and see what I can find (not expecting too much though since we are only on early day 2 so far).

 

[Pen]

Oh, and @DekuNut could I ask for you not to write your text in white? It makes the text pretty much invisible for me and I have to highlight it in order to even read it at all.

 

[DekuNut]

Sorry Pen. I'll go back and edit that stuff into none. Keep forgetting that the option exists.

 

[Soul]

I do know why Sadia would be a target regardless of her activity; she's under-the-radar one of the best players on this site. I can think of a few people that might share the sentiment and would make it a point to get her our of the way first, but it's just blind speculation at this point.

If we're going by this logic, it's surprising that Sadia was killed and not kokirion or Pendio. This is the first I'm hearing of Sadia's reputation here, while koki and Pendio are both pretty well known. That said, I find kokirion to be more suspicious than Pendio, who's arguments often fall in line with my own.

 

[Pen]

Sorry Pen. I'll go back and edit that stuff into none. Keep forgetting that the option exists.

Thanks a bunch! ^^

If we're going by this logic, it's surprising that Sadia was killed and not kokirion or Pendio. This is the first I'm hearing of Sadia's reputation here, while koki and Pendio are both pretty well known. That said, I find kokirion to be more suspicious than Pendio, who's arguments often fall in line with my own.

A reason that I could see as to why the Mafia did not pick me as their night kill target is because I had pressure on me yesterday. They could have easily seen the possibility of me getting lynched if that pressure grew today.

Out of curiosity, what about Kirion do you find the most suspicious?

 

[Dan]

Yeah I was quite certain Storm was a townie due to how he played last time bit of a shame that he had to be killed but I understand we need clarity.

If we're going by this logic, it's surprising that Sadia was killed and not kokirion or Pendio. This is the first I'm hearing of Sadia's reputation here, while koki and Pendio are both pretty well known. That said, I find kokirion to be more suspicious than Pendio, who's arguments often fall in line with my own.

They're using s53 stealth tactics, keep your prey clueless and be as unpredictable as possible, It's quite common in all ball games didn't expect to see such a move in this game. This probably means they want to observe our actions more.

 

[Soul]

Out of curiosity, what about Kirion do you find the most suspicious?

Just a few things he said that could work either way really. I liked his idea of Storm and Malon protecting each other at night, but he conveniently left out the possibility of a mafia roleblocker until Night Owl (I believe) brought it up. This could mean he was hoping to score a nightkill on a doctor because he knew he had a roleblocker on his side (or was the roleblocker himself). Of course, he also simply could have forgotten about that role, and if you take the RB out of the equation, his proposal made a lot of sense.

I'm not going to declare him scum right away, since there's no hard evidence and no strong suspicion either, but he's certainly caught my eye.

 

[Soul]

There's also the fact that we know doctors have an even/odd night restriction, another factor that he didn't calculate. @kokirion Is there a reason you didn't bring that up when you first proposed your idea?

 

[Soul]

To be clear, I have a few ideas of why you didn't, but I'd like to hear it from you instead of spelling it out.

 

[kokirion]

I am very surprised by Sadia's death. I did not see that coming.

I fully agree with Vero. I too think Sadia is a really strong player, and undererstimated by many. It's not unlikely that someone relatively close to Sadia, or who played a lot with her in the past, is part of the mafia team.

Storm's town-flip strengthens Pendio's position like I suggested at the end of last day, and that of Johnny as well. Johnny was not aware of the odd/even-night division of power, which caught my interest because I did not think VT's were in the game, but now that they have been confirmed, it's at least possible that Johnny is town and did not have that info.

Just a few things he said that could work either way really. I liked his idea of Storm and Malon protecting each other at night, but he conveniently left out the possibility of a mafia roleblocker until Night Owl (I believe) brought it up. This could mean he was hoping to score a nightkill on a doctor because he knew he had a roleblocker on his side (or was the roleblocker himself). Of course, he also simply could have forgotten about that role, and if you take the RB out of the equation, his proposal made a lot of sense.

Like I said, I figured out the same right after my post. But I did not know what the mafia knew, and so I first wanted to find a solution to it before making this public. Also, if the mafia would've used an RB'er, it could've given us a lot of info about their powers.

But you are right. I was even thinking that at the time, if I was mafia I might've used the same tactic. Although I do not see why that would've been necessary if I could've just RB'd one of them and killed the other. I don't really see the added benefit of knowing who they will target.

I did not mention the odd/even-night system because the person who suggested this publicly (I don't remember who) made a terrible move.
The Mafia is a seperate faction, so obviously does not know this. If we are publicly making this known, we give the mafia so much valuable information about our weaknesses. I saw no need to give them this info. When the first person briefly mentioned it, I ignored it, naively hoping that verrrry maybe the mafia did not read it and the town would forget about this stupid debate. But that did not work. Alas, we have discussed it so openly already that there's no point in denying it anymore. But let me tell you this once more, some information should just never be shared. Figuring this out as the town was not a succes but a massive failure. We're more vulnerable now.

 

[Soul]

Like I said, I figured out the same right after my post. But I did not know what the mafia knew, and so I first wanted to find a solution to it before making this public. Also, if the mafia would've used an RB'er, it could've given us a lot of info about their powers.

But you are right. I was even thinking that at the time, if I was mafia I might've used the same tactic. Although I do not see why that would've been necessary if I could've just RB'd one of them and killed the other. I don't really see the added benefit of knowing who they will target.

What benefit did you see from not alerting the mafia about you suspecting them to possibly have a roleblocker?

I did not mention the odd/even-night system because the person who suggested this publicly (I don't remember who) made a terrible move.
The Mafia is a seperate faction, so obviously does not know this. If we are publicly making this known, we give the mafia so much valuable information about our weaknesses. I saw no need to give them this info. When the first person briefly mentioned it, I ignored it, naively hoping that verrrry maybe the mafia did not read it and the town would forget about this stupid debate. But that did not work. Alas, we have discussed it so openly already that there's no point in denying it anymore. But let me tell you this once more, some information should just never be shared. Figuring this out as the town was not a succes but a massive failure. We're more vulnerable now.

That's what I thought you'd say, and I agree. The only upside is that they don't yet know which colour can act on what night.

 

[Soul]

I fully agree with Vero. I too think Sadia is a really strong player, and undererstimated by many. It's not unlikely that someone relatively close to Sadia, or who played a lot with her in the past, is part of the mafia team.

Makes sense to me. As a mafia veteran, can you point to some players who have played with Sadia before? Not because I immediately want to lynch one of them or anything, just for future reference.

 

[kokirion]

What benefit did you see from not alerting the mafia about you suspecting them to possibly have a roleblocker?

I meant that they could use him/her in such a way. But none, obviously I knew that was wishful thinking. So I needed to find a solution to the problem. Without a solution the plan would be nearly worthless, so I rather wanted to think first before making this problem public instead of torpedoing the plan first.

That's what I thought you'd say, and I agree. The only upside is that they don't yet know which colour can act on what night.

Partially. It does not really matter. The mafia knows now that when a kill of theirs fails, due to whatever reason, the person who blocked it that night is not likely to be able to do it again the following night. Hence, their original target is completely exposed. I think this info is very dangerous to share with the mafia.

 

[kokirion]

Makes sense to me. As a mafia veteran, can you point to some players who have played with Sadia before? Not because I immediately want to lynch one of them or anything, just for future reference.

I need to think that through.
I have not played a game for nearly 2 years now, so Sadia has played a number of game without me in it. So I do not know everyone who has been close to her. And even if you would analyse all her games, the culprit might also have been a moderator who took an interest in how she excercised her role. A bit hard to say.
From my personal knowledge, I would say Pendio, me, Vergo, Mido and Tristan. (every member of CCC for sure. She also played a great game in Pirates 2, I believe most of the players I mentioned her were in positions back then that were connected to her in some way). For other players I need to do some research.
But in all honesty, I see all players I mentioned above as not super likely to be scum, right now. although Mido could be a possibility. But is Mido the type to hunt his kills like that? I'm not sure, I've never been on a mafia team with him. But his personality is a bit more laid-back, and accepting the events. I would not suspect him to have led this kill. To support it, yes, but to suggest it and convince everyone?