Team Fortress 2: Mann vs. Machine

[Dan]

Just out of bi-curiosity what time do you guys usually log on to post in mafia? Like do you have times that are generally fixed to a certain period or is it just random?

 

[Zelda18]

So sorry, I've been sick since Sunday night, with something affecting my brain function, and as a result have not been in my...right...mind...*ahem* so I didn't want to post here till I was able to say something while I was mostly sane. Soooo I'll post something later today after rereading through what I missed.

 

[Soul]

To start with the RB thingy. It's never been an idea that I "deliberately" hid, that's a misunderstanding. What I originally said, and what this accusation is based on, is that I realised it right after I made the post. I then did not made a second post right away, because it was an idea that had just popped into my head. Obviously I could not have overseen all consequences of a possible RB on the mafia team within a splitt second of figuring out that maybe an RB is at play, and most important how to deal with this. I cannot make a proper post if I have not even my own thoughts on one line. Please do not exaggerate the story, it seems as if it's starting to get a life of its own.

In essence, you've simply made a mistake then. Do you understand why I find that play in particular to be suspicious? To be fair, there was quite some time between your initial post and Frozen Chosen's, and during that time you could easily have made that post, simply because there's no logical reason not to.

I can see how it would be your playstyle though. I don't have any prior experience playing with you, but from what I can gather in this game, you like making long, thought out posts, not inherently a bad thing to do, and I can see where you're coming from.

I don't know if you caught that or if you were even talking about me in the rest of that huge post, but I can reassure you that I'm not trying to frame you or anything like that. I'll latch on to anything I find noteworthy, but if you think about it, you'll find that the roleblocker thing is not the only thing I've asked you about, but it's the only thing I haven't let go.

Just out of bi-curiosity what time do you guys usually log on to post in mafia? Like do you have times that are generally fixed to a certain period or is it just random?

Whenever I'm awake really. ^^ I'm on sick leave, so I don't exactly have that much going on to distract me from playing.

So sorry, I've been sick since Sunday night, with something affecting my brain function, and as a result have not been in my...right...mind...*ahem* so I didn't want to post here till I was able to say something while I was mostly sane. Soooo I'll post something later today after rereading through what I missed.

Sorry to hear that, get well soon! Just a quick note, if you find yourself under attack and need a timeout for a day or two for personal reasons, just say so. That happened with Storm in the Revival Game, and I think everyone here agrees when I say that real life matters more than forum mafia.

 

[Dan]

So sorry, I've been sick since Sunday night, with something affecting my brain function, and as a result have not been in my...right...mind...*ahem* so I didn't want to post here till I was able to say something while I was mostly sane. Soooo I'll post something later today after rereading through what I missed.

Hey no worries pal. Real life should always take priorities over this messy virtual hub of goblins and trolls!

 

[Mipha]

Just out of bi-curiosity what time do you guys usually log on to post in mafia? Like do you have times that are generally fixed to a certain period or is it just random?

I just post/log on whenever I can, so it is usually pretty random.

 

[Mellow Ezlo]

Hey yo, I was on a bus all day yesterday with no wifi and lots of dead zones so reading this thread was a pain, then I didn't get home until 3:30am (4:30am for me since I crossed a timezone barrier) and so I just woke up. Just as a heads up, this will be my only post today (irl day) since I have plans and I just got home after nearly 8 months away, so ya, I'll probably make a post tomorrow. Just wanted to update you guys so you don't think I'm ignoring this game!

 

[Mido]

Sunset Overdrive, guys....took me out of commission long enough! Now it's been hard to fully catch, up, especially since I'm still trying to put two-and-two together on kokirion and Pendio's litle discourse on the previous day. As for today, I think I'm getting a better understanding of how everything works 'round these parts.

From my personal knowledge, I would say Pendio, me, Vergo, Mido and Tristan. (every member of CCC for sure. She also played a great game in Pirates 2, I believe most of the players I mentioned her were in positions back then that were connected to her in some way). For other players I need to do some research. But in all honesty, I see all players I mentioned above as not super likely to be scum, right now. although Mido could be a possibility. But is Mido the type to hunt his kills like that? I'm not sure, I've never been on a mafia team with him. But his personality is a bit more laid-back, and accepting the events. I would not suspect him to have led this kill. To support it, yes, but to suggest it and convince everyone?

As far as Sadia's death goes, I'm most willing to assume that in the most general case, she was targeted as a more inactive player in this game, potentially rendering her a 'safe' kill. The added notion of her immense skill at Mafia is a bonus circumstance for them. Ultimately, this idea does not do a good job at narrowing down suspects; however, which was probably what the mafia had in mind. However, if the mafia harbors a primarily experienced group as you hypothesize, I think the Mafia either acted to eliminate a true threat; or operated in similar manner, but also considered the idea that they could frame players with a history of being at ends with Sadia. If the latter is true, you may be the subject of the frame. Ultimately, I am more inclined to think that the Mafia were intending a 'safe' kill.

As far as I go in respect to this, I have hunted as you mentioned above. In Revival, I heavily pushed for an LG nightkill due to her 'in your face' playstyle, and after your game, I was immensely scared of her, which is what drove me to act as such in the previous game.

 

[Soul]

As far as Sadia's death goes, I'm most willing to assume that in the most general case, she was targeted as a more inactive player in this game, potentially rendering her a 'safe' kill. The added notion of her immense skill at Mafia is a bonus circumstance for them. Ultimately, this idea does not do a good job at narrowing down suspects; however, which was probably what the mafia had in mind. However, if the mafia harbors a primarily experienced group as you hypothesize, I think the Mafia either acted to eliminate a true threat; or operated in similar manner, but also considered the idea that they could frame players with a history of being at ends with Sadia. If the latter is true, you may be the subject of the frame. Ultimately, I am more inclined to think that the Mafia were intending a 'safe' kill.

Not sure I agree with this. Wouldn't you rather lynch someone active if you're scum? Those are the people who ask questions after all. Besides, lynching someone who's accused another player could lead to another mislynch if said player is town aswell. One thing I COULD imagine is that there simply was no aggressive town player who wasn't spot in in one of their deductions, in which case it would be wise to nightkill an inactive player instead.

To give an example, had I been nightkilled, then suspicion would probably fall on HeroOfTime and kokirion, both of which I've aggressively questioned the previous day. If both of these are town that would have been a very smart move from the mafia. If one of them is scum however, and the same holds true for anyone else who's been aggressively pursuing players, it would be a good idea to target an inactive player instead in the hopes of hitting a cop who's been laying low.

Of course, all of the above is theory, but I thought I'd share the sentiment.

 

[Soul]

Goddamnit, the first two instances of "lynch" should be "kill".

 

[Mido]

Not sure I agree with this. Wouldn't you rather lynch someone active if you're scum? Those are the people who ask questions after all. Besides, lynching someone who's accused another player could lead to another mislynch if said player is town aswell. One thing I COULD imagine is that there simply was no aggressive town player who wasn't spot in in one of their deductions, in which case it would be wise to nightkill an inactive player instead.

To give an example, had I been nightkilled, then suspicion would probably fall on HeroOfTime and kokirion, both of which I've aggressively questioned the previous day. If both of these are town that would have been a very smart move from the mafia. If one of them is scum however, and the same holds true for anyone else who's been aggressively pursuing players, it would be a good idea to target an inactive player instead in the hopes of hitting a cop who's been laying low.

Of course, all of the above is theory, but I thought I'd share the sentiment.

In the case of killing an inactive, it merits the benefit of leaving the town with little to no evidence with which to work. An indecisive town. especially early on, is arguably just as beneficial to the mafia as a misinformed town. In the long run, misinformation may work best; however, leaving the town with nothing to work with can allow Mafia members to take lead, taking advantage of the lack of direction. I can see what you mean, nonetheless!

 

[Johnny Sooshi]

Just out of bi-curiosity what time do you guys usually log on to post in mafia? Like do you have times that are generally fixed to a certain period or is it just random?

Relatively random. It just depends on my schedule.

Sunset Overdrive, guys....took me out of commission long enough! Now it's been hard to fully catch, up, especially since I'm still trying to put two-and-two together on kokirion and Pendio's litle discourse on the previous day. As for today, I think I'm getting a better understanding of how everything works 'round these parts.

I feel that. Dark Souls 3 is too fun to stop playing.

 

[Soul]

In the case of killing an inactive, it merits the benefit of leaving the town with little to no evidence with which to work. An indecisive town. especially early on, is arguably just as beneficial to the mafia as a misinformed town. In the long run, misinformation may work best; however, leaving the town with nothing to work with can allow Mafia members to take lead, taking advantage of the lack of direction. I can see what you mean, nonetheless!

Good point, I can agree with that. Thanks for explaining.

 

[A Link In Time]

\

I believed Storm was Town because of two major reasons....

Alright. Thanks for the response. Your reasoning for thinking Storm is town seems sound from what we knew from the first day, though I will still keep my eye on you moving forward for suggesting a no lynch. I am still not completely sold about your explanation on that one.

Not sure I agree with this. Wouldn't you rather lynch someone active if you're scum? Those are the people who ask questions after all. Besides, lynching someone who's accused another player could lead to another mislynch if said player is town aswell. One thing I COULD imagine is that there simply was no aggressive town player who wasn't spot in in one of their deductions, in which case it would be wise to nightkill an inactive player instead.

To give an example, had I been nightkilled, then suspicion would probably fall on HeroOfTime and kokirion, both of which I've aggressively questioned the previous day. If both of these are town that would have been a very smart move from the mafia. If one of them is scum however, and the same holds true for anyone else who's been aggressively pursuing players, it would be a good idea to target an inactive player instead in the hopes of hitting a cop who's been laying low.

Of course, all of the above is theory, but I thought I'd share the sentiment.

You raise a good point, but the mafia may have kept active town players alive because they have not hit scum or are (unintentionally) misleading the town. During Johnny's mafia game, Tristan was left alive for a very long time even though he had been confirmed as town before the game started because he hadn't aggressively gone against any of the mafia members.

There were a lot of accusations thrown around yesterday from Pendio and kokirion going after each other to Viral questioning Toxic_Snowman to Johnny inquiring about me to Hero and Tristan doubting Malon before he claimed. By killing Sadia, the mafia is still leaving all of those suspicions alive. It's a bit like what happened with me in the Mafia Revival Game Thread. The suspicion against me led to the lynch of an inactive, Dan, and then my eventual lynch led to the loss of the game because I, a suspicious player at the time, was left alive.

 

[Viral Maze]

It's common for veteran players to be targeted early on this site (If Viral Maze ever makes it past like day three I'm instantly suspicious, lol),

>_>

<_<

Now I'm not going to get targetted for a NK, and get mislynched later D:

To the other people that have stated they are wary of me. I fully understand it. I know, it's due to my personality. And yes, I've manipulated the town before, when I was mafia, with far more megalomanic schemes and (nearly) gotten away with it. So why trust me now?
But think about it. In every major game I've played at ZD (or at CCC), when I was scum I was mostly trusted. When I was town, everyone was suspicious of me. Pirates 2, I replaced Pancake as a mafia member and shred of the scumminess (for a while). At Kid Icarus some people even outrightly stated they thought I was a VT (while I was mafia) etc.. At Green Lantern, no one ever accused me etc.. But everytime I've been town, such as in Radiant Historia mafia, and at the private CCC games, I was always under fire. For those who played in our last CCC game, did you remember when Tristan, LG and I were the only ones left? I hit the nail completely about what was going on, but I was lynched, because I was not trusted. This game is a similar case. Really guys, yes I could be playing some strange meta right now and secretly be scum, but look at my current situation, how likely is that really in my current situation? So many people talking about the possibility of me being scum. If I was mafia right now I would do a hell of a bad job. For those that have played with me before when I really was mafia, wouldn't you think I could do a tiny bit better? I would've manipulated the discussions in such a way that this situation would never occur. I know my role, but if I try to look objectively at my current playstyle, I do not see the scummy atmosphere around me some players try to portray on me. But as I said, I understand people are generally wary of me. It's good to be critical, but come with objective results.

So you're pretty much saying when you're trusted, you're scum, and when you're not trusted, you're town, as a general rule...

You bashed Pendio for his appealing to emotion, but you're committing an anecdotal fallacy here.

FoS: Kokirion

 

[Pen]

@Pendio

What are your thoughts on players:

Herooftime, Toxic Snowman, Soul

Also... are you okay? Emotionally I mean?

I have not gotten a very good read on Hero of Time yet. He has not been very active and the game has not been going on for too long. I gather he is rather new to Mafia though, but that is mostly it.

I am a bit wary of Toxic Snowman. I would not say I am specifically suspicious of him, but the way he suggested a no-lynch yesterday did look pretty bad. Of course, thinking about it now, why would he (as Mafia) suggest a no-lynch knowing that Storm (who was getting lynched) was with the Town? So yeah, maybe Toxic Snowman is indeed with the Town. I cannot know for sure, obviously. I suppose my thoughts on him are kind of torn for the time being. @Toxic_Snowman have you played a lot of Mafia before, or are you relatively new to it?

And Soul, well I find myself agreeing with a lot of the things he says. I would certainly not say that he is definitely Town, but so far he is one of the players that I trust the most. However, this does not mean that I trust him completely (more like maybe 60 or 70%).

And yes, I am quite okay. Emotionally, that is. Thank you for asking. How about you, Dan? I do hope you are doing alright emotionally too. ^^

Refering to Pendio's accusation, that I now very swiftly jumped between accusing him/not accusing him, you either did not thoroughly read my posts or this is a deliberate attempt to put me in a bad light.

I have not made any accusations against you today, Kirion. I have expressed my wariness, but that is all. I do not wish to lynch you, nor do I wish to make you look suspicious. All I do is act on the things that happen, and share what is on my mind in hopes of helping the Town.

Storm indeed flipped town, and so that was a positive note for Pendio's case. I noted this, and either due to disinterest or foul play am I now being accused of making "a sudden move".

Again, I am not "accusing" you. Also, why do you but "a sudden move" within quotation marks? It is almost as if you are reciting me. In truth I did not use words that were at all as direct and hard as those. In fact, the post that you are talking about was not an accusation at all. It was just me asking you why you changed your mind. A simple question. Not an accusation.

I would very much like to vote for Pendio right now, and try to get rid of him. I do not understand his accusations against me, which seem to me as a smear campaign. He never even mentioned me until I mentioned him (that was clearly an OMGUS response). Every further accusation has either been an emotional one or a distortion of facts.

You say you want to vote for me and try to get me out of the game. You also say that you think I am likely to be Town. Do you think you could elaborate a little bit more on that? Because to me it looks like a pretty suspicious contradiction. Why would you like to lynch someone who you have specifically expressed trust toward?

And again, I see you are bringing up how I had not mentioned you until you mentioned me. It was day 1, in other words, it was still very early on in the game. I had simply not had the time to mention many of the players at that point. And the only reason I mentioned you once you had mentioned me was because you addressed me. Is that not natural? I am sure you would have found it even more odd if I had just ignored you addressing me. I responded to you because you were talking to me, so please explain again how that was "clearly an OMGUS response".

Also, you still have not explained my emotional posts to me, even though I asked you to clarify it yesterday. Is it a good or a bad thing? Is it something new I do? And when have I been so explicitly emotional, might I ask? I am afraid I do not quite understand what you mean.

Officially he's not voting for me, but (and knowing Pendio) this is obviously a prelude to an open attack on me later in the game. Throwing around enough suspicion, making people doubt me for long enough, distorting facts, and when they start to get a life of their own it will be a vote.

You think too highly of me, old friend. What you are describing here sounds to me like a sly and cunning mastermind. I could not do this even if I wanted to. And as it stands, I am not even suspicious of you to the point where I want you dead. I am just wary of you, but quite frankly I am wary about every player in the game. The only reason I seem to have expressed it mostly towards you is because you are amongst the more active players, you have been quite suspicious of me, and also because you and I seem to see certain things differently when it comes to this game. However, keep in mind that this does not mean I want to lynch you. You are indeed a bit suspicious to me, but so is every player (more or less).

Just out of bi-curiosity what time do you guys usually log on to post in mafia? Like do you have times that are generally fixed to a certain period or is it just random?

I have no set time. It can be any time of the day. At what times do you typically get on here, Dan?