Super Smash Mafia 2: Originals vs Clones - Game Thread

[Viral Maze]

Did you have anything else to say?

No. I'm literally going to ride out the day cuz idgaf. Been super busy at work, an upcoming exam and with my gf. I'll be active Tmrw especially since I got killed in the other game.

 

[Eduarda]

???
You said before - Jamie would have changed some things from last game so the repeating players don't sway the game.
Even if she had shared information about the mafia from last game, it's all going to be different.

At the point of her post, some people were still speculating on the attack parameters. If I was Mafia last game and had any sort of information, I would have shared it. Even if things may have changed since last game. It might give town more of a solid ground to stand on and base this game's rules on. The fact that she mentioned nothing at all of last game's parameters even though she brought up the topic was really strange to me. Town being in the dark on last game would only help Mafia. There's no loss for her by stating the parameters this game if she was town. If anything, it would give her town credit.

For now I actually see Heroine as townish. The reason for that was because she so openly said that she wasn't mafia for once when she confirmed this game.
Is it a bluff or the truth? I found that often, when people actually are mafia they don't say such things. No one really believes it anyway and so you think it might be too risky. In truth, usually people only say such things when it's the truth, they are not that afraid to say it if that's the case namely.

In no way does that clear her name, but for the early days I find that a more convincing lead than that she may have quickly jumped on someone else's theory. That could be a scumtell, but the first question is whether that actually occured and wasn't a misinterpretation of the posts and the second is whether that is really always scummy. I've seen plenty of townies doing that as well.

Heroine could be scum, but I don't think she is the best lynch target for day 1.

I can't remember who it was but in a game a few years back a player posted their first post of that game and if you took all the capital letters and put them together it would spell "I AM MAFIA". I think they were lynched for that in fact and turned out scum. So saying that Mafia won't take a gambit like that isn't correct. Heroine was also continuing a joke about being stuck as Mafia. In fact, if she was actually town, I feel like she might be more inclined to continue the joke further. Instead, she stayed quiet about it and pretended like it didn't happen. If she were Mafia I feel like she would do just that seeing that ZD didn't take her post as a joke like she suspected, and she would hope they would forget about it. So I would definitely not rule out her being mafia because of this situation.

Since a few people seem to agree that we should lynch someone today but no one is stepping up, I think I'll take the first step. If no one agrees with me I don't think just my attack alone would make her a one hit Mafia kill. If anything, the doctor could heal her. Time is running out and I really think someone at all being knocked out would be helpful.

Attack: Heroine of Time

 

[Mellow Ezlo]

I may be wrong here, but taking things from the previous attempt at this game would count as outside evidence to me, which is generally against the rules. Jamie may allow it, but he hasn't said anything, so for now, I think we should consider only evidence from this game. Jamie said it wasn't the exact same as the previous game anyway.

Also if you were Mafia, as town now, why haven't you told us your teammates attack parameters last game? It would help the town shed light on the situation.

That would ruin the balance of the game and give the town too much information, and would therefore be unfair to the mafia. It seems somewhat strange that you'd even suggest this.

I saw some people saying the mafia may attack themselves at night for some town cred, but is that even possible? Most mods forbid the mafia from NKing each other, so I assume Jamie would do the same thing here. I could be wrong of course, and it's possible that they can, but I find it unlikely. So I standby what I said before, and what others have said, in that we should be conservative with our attacks for day 1 so that the mafia can't kill, or shouldn't be able to kill, anybody during the first night. We'll be able to see who they attacked, and what kind of damage they did, so it will be helpful to us in the long run.

I'm not sold on Heroine btw. @Eduarda it seems your main basis of suspicion on her is inconsistency with the way she played in the previous version of the game, but like I said before, that's outside evidence and doesn't really count does it, because that was a different game. I could have misinterpreted your posts though, so could you confirm this? I haven't personally seen anything overly scummy from her posts.

 

[Eduarda]

I may be wrong here, but taking things from the previous attempt at this game would count as outside evidence to me, which is generally against the rules. Jamie may allow it, but he hasn't said anything, so for now, I think we should consider only evidence from this game. Jamie said it wasn't the exact same as the previous game anyway.

No I doubt it. Mods usually let us use information from outside games. I mean that's kind of important when scum hunting. We need to look for inconsistencies and playstyle differences. It's a big part of Mafia. I think even in your game you said we can use information from past games but not on-going ones. And the first game was a past game.

That would ruin the balance of the game and give the town too much information, and would therefore be unfair to the mafia. It seems somewhat strange that you'd even suggest this.

I don't think it would be giving too much information. If anything it can help rule one possibility out as Jamie said parameters were changed. Either way I think we have mostly decided that damage doesn't indicate alignment. It was just the odd thing that I found of Heroine having the chance to share information when she didn't. As I stated as mafia hiding it would be beneficial while as town sharing it would be beneficial.

I'm not sold on Heroine btw. @Eduarda it seems your main basis of suspicion on her is inconsistency with the way she played in the previous version of the game, but like I said before, that's outside evidence and doesn't really count does it, because that was a different game. I could have misinterpreted your posts though, so could you confirm this? I haven't personally seen anything overly scummy from her posts.

Again using past games shouldn't count as outside information. It won't be fair at all. Just things like a crumb dropped in on Skype by mistake or the Who's Online page should count as outside information.
And while that is a reason I've also stated other reasons too. Like Heroine holding back information and her statement that she would play different as town being a flimsy excuse. It's not much, I know. But you've seen me play as town in Avenger's Mafia and you know that having a lynch every day is important to me. Even if I'm not 100% convinced that person is Mafia. And right now I feel like Heroine is our best bet.

 

[Sadia]

I can't remember who it was but in a game a few years back a player posted their first post of that game and if you took all the capital letters and put them together it would spell "I AM MAFIA". I think they were lynched for that in fact and turned out scum. So saying that Mafia won't take a gambit like that isn't correct. Heroine was also continuing a joke about being stuck as Mafia. In fact, if she was actually town, I feel like she might be more inclined to continue the joke further. Instead, she stayed quiet about it and pretended like it didn't happen. If she were Mafia I feel like she would do just that seeing that ZD didn't take her post as a joke like she suspected, and she would hope they would forget about it. So I would definitely not rule out her being mafia because of this situation.

Since a few people seem to agree that we should lynch someone today but no one is stepping up, I think I'll take the first step. If no one agrees with me I don't think just my attack alone would make her a one hit Mafia kill. If anything, the doctor could heal her. Time is running out and I really think someone at all being knocked out would be helpful.

Attack: Heroine of Time

Agreed. Just because Hroni jokingly said, "Haha finally I'm not scum this time", doesn't mean a thing to me. Obviously she said it as a joke, and it's something you can post regardless of alignment.

However as for the other arguments..... well, ok, let me get this straight. You're suspicious because she agreed with someone last game as scum, and then she agreed with you this game, correct? Ehh, I mean, you could be onto something, but overall I'd say the argument's a little weak. (But I appreciate you for trying with such little to go off tho) Agreeing doesn't have to be contrived, like, she could be town who just saw eye to eye with what you had said. Idk Heroine only has 3 posts, and that's too little for me to conclude she's following the leader. Personally I got that vibe more from HoL, who literally echoed another post. Another thing, I also don't know if she was hiding information, maybe Jamie said she couldn't share that stuff? @Jamie

Also, I'm gonna thank Eduarda for posting a few suspicions. Does anyone else have any, or any thoughts on her list?

Well, I had one thought. Many people disagreed with the notion of everybody getting a little damage today, and I couldn't help but wonder if there was scum among that group. Naturally mafia don't want damage on themselves, so they'd disagree. Of course there must be Townies who just didn't like the idea or thought it was unfair, but this is where my train of thought is going as of now.

 

[LittleGumball]

Town being in the dark on last game would only help Mafia. There's no loss for her by stating the parameters this game if she was town. If anything, it would give her town credit.

Not really? Last game is not this game. The game is literally different. I don't know why you're so hung up on this.

It would not really give her town cred because the game is different. Information on mafia from a different game does not help the situation in the current game.

Heroine was also continuing a joke about being stuck as Mafia. In fact, if she was actually town, I feel like she might be more inclined to continue the joke further. Instead, she stayed quiet about it and pretended like it didn't happen. If she were Mafia I feel like she would do just that seeing that ZD didn't take her post as a joke like she suspected, and she would hope they would forget about it. So I would definitely not rule out her being mafia because of this situation.

????? this logic...???

First off have you ever actually talked to her? Are you guys even friends? lol I'm just seeing you base an accusation off what you think her personality is but afaik you two have never interacted outside of mafia (and let's be honest neither of you have had much recent mafia exposure, minus you in Avengers).

This is the weirdest accusation i've ever seen. "Ur scum bc you're not making a joke!!!!!!"

It was just the odd thing that I found of Heroine having the chance to share information when she didn't.

Except this information literally would not help?

 

[A Link In Time]

I've gone through the thread again and done my best to organize where people first stood on the attacking issue this game. If I have you in the wrong category, feel free to correct me.

Spreading out damage amongst all players: Frozen Chosen, Eduarda, Sadia

Attacking a small group of people: kokirion, A Link In Time, Toxic_Snowman, Tristan, DekuNut, JC-Hurin, The Hero of Legend

Nobody takes damage: Doc, Libk, Cthulhu

I'm going to go through the thread again to get some specific reads on people, but I wanted to take a step back and look at a general overview of the game for now.

 

[Libk]

I think people should take damage, just for a KO. NOt to make us all weaker

 

[Eduarda]

Not really? Last game is not this game. The game is literally different. I don't know why you're so hung up on this.
It would not really give her town cred because the game is different. Information on mafia from a different game does not help the situation in the current game.

Jamie said the parameters of this game is different.
Last game, Heroine of Time herself was the one to suggest that Mafia had lower parameters. Now this discussion is up in the air again. Do they have low parameters of high parameters. By saying for example, that Mafia had high parameters last game, we can conclude that this game they might either have low parameters or their attack is not indicative of alignment.

And why I'm so hung up on this? Because in every single game I've seen on this site there was a consensus that not lynching anyone on day one never helps the town and that it gives Mafia a free nightkill. What's so different about this game? Don't you think it's strange that people suddenly are willing to waste a whole day and wait for night? It's not like we're having a gold mine of discussion either. How is the mafia not leading this. I really really want a knock out today. Sadly, I don't think it's going to happen. I've been looking for scraps here and there. If no one likes a Heroine knock out, ok, I'm fine with that. Someone else could do. But I at least want the town to move forward. We're just agreeing to be on a stand still like this. I myself am not 100% convinced she's scum. I just think she's the best we have. Even if it's 1% more scummy than the rest. I've already stated that I think assuming Ben is town for now is safe. I'm fine with a JC, Cthulhu, and Bryant knock out too. None have been productive. I just don't want this day to go to waste with us just sitting idol.

????? this logic...???

First off have you ever actually talked to her? Are you guys even friends? lol I'm just seeing you base an accusation off what you think her personality is but afaik you two have never interacted outside of mafia (and let's be honest neither of you have had much recent mafia exposure, minus you in Avengers).

This is the weirdest accusation i've ever seen. "Ur scum bc you're not making a joke!!!!!!"

No. The point of that section wasn't saying that because of her joke she's scum. The point was that a scum could do that too so her joke doesn't indicate alignment. It doesn't pass her as town. We need to look at other things to guess her alignment.

 

[Heroine of Time]

Sarcasm?

Not at all, haha. I can't remember the last time anyone took Day One seriously while I was playing.

I went back to look at the tread more closely and realized you are right. I must have somehow confused you with Moonstone. Apologies. But even with that it doesn't help your case with your follow the leader behaviour. Last game you agreed with DekuNut immediately and didn't offer an alternative method to approach the game. This game you followed me immediately. My statement against RVS could have easily been debunked by saying that votes would be transferred to attacks by the last 24 hours. This was suggested and agreed upon last game too by Moonstone I believe. Yet in both cases you followed a suggestion immediately without questioning it.

I again never agreed with him. I made a joke vote, just as the people who "voted" for me in the sign-up thread made a joke. At that point in the previous game, we hadn't discussed using votes as a way of keeping track of suspicions, and I never gave an opinion about it as a strategy.

I suppose it's my fault, but I kind of was expecting a period of joking this game as well, which is probably why I came off as sounding so "follow the leader". Saying that we'd have to have "actual analysis" on day one was just my attempt at being funny in that post.

Also your point that you were Mafia last game doesn't help your case either. Your difference of opinions doesn't mean you are town now. You should be trying to keep relatively similar play styles and opinions regardless or alignment as I'm sure you know.

Yes, I know. Fair enough. I was simply bringing that up since you seemed to be implying that because I said the opposite of something last game, I must the opposite role. That game was a long time ago, and my opinions can easily change. Especially considering I haven't REALLY played mafia in like a year... I wasn't even active in that game, haha.

Also if you were Mafia, as town now, why haven't you told us your teammates attack parameters last game? It would help the town shed light on the situation.

At the point of her post, some people were still speculating on the attack parameters. If I was Mafia last game and had any sort of information, I would have shared it. Even if things may have changed since last game. It might give town more of a solid ground to stand on and base this game's rules on. The fact that she mentioned nothing at all of last game's parameters even though she brought up the topic was really strange to me. Town being in the dark on last game would only help Mafia. There's no loss for her by stating the parameters this game if she was town. If anything, it would give her town credit.

No I doubt it. Mods usually let us use information from outside games. I mean that's kind of important when scum hunting. We need to look for inconsistencies and playstyle differences. It's a big part of Mafia. I think even in your game you said we can use information from past games but not on-going ones. And the first game was a past game.

I don't think it would be giving too much information. If anything it can help rule one possibility out as Jamie said parameters were changed. Either way I think we have mostly decided that damage doesn't indicate alignment. It was just the odd thing that I found of Heroine having the chance to share information when she didn't. As I stated as mafia hiding it would be beneficial while as town sharing it would be beneficial.

Again using past games shouldn't count as outside information. It won't be fair at all. Just things like a crumb dropped in on Skype by mistake or the Who's Online page should count as outside information.
And while that is a reason I've also stated other reasons too. Like Heroine holding back information and her statement that she would play different as town being a flimsy excuse. It's not much, I know. But you've seen me play as town in Avenger's Mafia and you know that having a lynch every day is important to me. Even if I'm not 100% convinced that person is Mafia. And right now I feel like Heroine is our best bet.

I just put all these quotes together because they're all about the same topic.

I'm very confused as to why you're singling me out for this point. I guess, now that I'm looking at it, I am the only mafia member from the last game that's in this one. However, I was not the only PLAYER in the previous game, and no one else has shared their parameters. If sharing information from the previous game is important, then you should be asking everyone to do it, whether they were Town or Mafia. Why does me being mafia in the last game and not sharing information make it me more suspicious than the person who was town in the previous game and does the same?

The truth is that sharing the old information never occurred to me. I never even thought to look at the old parameters until you said that just now. Hence why I was participating in discussing the mafia's attack parameters -- I forgot that I could even see those, lol. Do you think if I was intentionally witholding that information, I would have acknowledged the discussion in the same post that I pointed out I was mafia in the previous game?

Jamie also said that things have changed so that no one has an unfair advantage, so I don't know how useful it would be. And even then... I'd feel bad about sharing that information without permission. While I agree that posts from a different game are in no way unfair outside information, role PMs seem like they would be. We can't share role PMs from this game, so why should I be able to do it now?

But I'll ask: @Jamie, would it be okay if I shared the abilities and parameters that the mafia from the previous game had?

 

[A Link In Time]

Okay, so Frozen Chosen was the first one to ask peoples’ opinions about how to plan attack strategies during the game. It’s not necessarily alignment indicative, but it’s an important post because it’s generated the most discussion of all the posts in the game thus far. At the end of the post, Frozen Chosen voices his support for wanting every player to damage a different player.

Kokirion is the first person to not want damage on every single player. He says that he’s uncomfortable with everyone going into the night weaker because it makes a mafia kill that much easier on everyone. While this is his own personal position on the issue, he thinks that everyone should do whatever they want to do.

#17 makes me uncomfortable. I don’t like how Johnny is hedging his bets instead of firmly committing to a position on the issue. It’s the way start of the game, so it seems strange to see someone playing it so safe early on.

Moving on, DekuNut’s the one to suggesting using FoS’s to keep track of suspicions during the day without actually attacking someone.

Doc’s the third and last one to suggest a different approach to attacking, and that’s having everyone enter the night with 0%.

I’m not ruling out the possibility of them being scum just yet, but I feel pretty good about Frozen Chosen, Kokirion, and Doc for generating so much discussion and bringing their own viewpoints to the table, which is something scum may be afraid to do, especially if someone disagrees with them.

I like Eduarda’s post #34 a lot. She’s prodding people to actually think about the game and welcoming constructive criticism of her ideas. Eduarda is also adamant about people not stating their defense parameter, which could be used by the mafia to see who is most vulnerable.

There’s a bit of discussion about damage outputs after this. Regal was the first one to bring it up, but several more people elaborate on the topic. The Hero of Legend thinks mafia have higher damage outputs than town, while Pendio and Doc disagree. Heroine later joins in to stay the mafia may have lower damage outputs and LG echoes Pendio and Doc’s thoughts that the mafia have varied damage just like town.

At this point, Frozen Chosen reverses his position on attacking, and says he’s in favor of attacking a few people during Day 1. I still feel good about his start to the game, but I can’t help but feel paranoid from his change of heart. I’m suspicious of him in the other game that’s going on right now as well, so it might be something about his playstyle that doesn’t sit well with me. I don’t want to tunnel him so early, but I’m wary of him at the back of my mind.

The next big thing is the back and forth between Heroine and Eduarda. It turns out Eduarda got Heroine confused with Moonstone in the previous game, but she still doesn’t like how Heroine has been using a “follow the leader” reasoning. I don’t have a strong opinion on this right now, but I’m not the biggest fan of using peoples’ reasoning from seven to eight months ago. Their idea on how to best play the game may have changed in those many months. After several posts, Eduarda makes a move and attacks Heroine. The whole exchange makes me feel a little worse about Eduarda, but I don’t think mafia would be the first ones to bring attention to themselves by attacking.

Koki says that Heroine seems townish in #75. I don’t like the evidence he uses, but it’s important to note he doesn’t clear her just yet; he merely thinks she’s not the best target for Day 1.

 

[LittleGumball]

Don't you think it's strange that people suddenly are willing to waste a whole day and wait for night?

In some ways yes. In some, no. I didn't expect everyone to pile on one member on day one just to throw their damage percentage up. Sure this will be the first day one with a no lynch in a long time but the rules of this game are different than normal so I'm treating this game differently than normal.

It's different when you can only "vote" once. you have to be conservative.

No. The point of that section wasn't saying that because of her joke she's scum. The point was that a scum could do that too so her joke doesn't indicate alignment. It doesn't pass her as town. We need to look at other things to guess her alignment.

It kind of was though? You literally said "In fact, if she was actually town, I feel like she might be more inclined to continue the joke further." You are literally questioning her alignment because of a joke. (you are also making assumptions about someone's personality that you know nothing about )

Looking back at the original post, you were saying all that in response to someone though so I guess I kind of took that out of context on accident. my b



Your efforts are nice and all Eduarda but I think your logic is very flawed today.

 

[Jamie]

But I'll ask: @Jamie, would it be okay if I shared the abilities and parameters that the mafia from the previous game had?

I'd prefer you didn't. There are many changes to the previous setup, but I think it'd still be wrong to share setup information from a game that never actually finished or even really got going and had to be reset.

 

[Jamie]

No I doubt it. Mods usually let us use information from outside games. I mean that's kind of important when scum hunting. We need to look for inconsistencies and playstyle differences. It's a big part of Mafia. I think even in your game you said we can use information from past games but not on-going ones. And the first game was a past game.


I don't think it would be giving too much information. If anything it can help rule one possibility out as Jamie said parameters were changed. Either way I think we have mostly decided that damage doesn't indicate alignment. It was just the odd thing that I found of Heroine having the chance to share information when she didn't. As I stated as mafia hiding it would be beneficial while as town sharing it would be beneficial.


Again using past games shouldn't count as outside information. It won't be fair at all. Just things like a crumb dropped in on Skype by mistake or the Who's Online page should count as outside information.
And while that is a reason I've also stated other reasons too. Like Heroine holding back information and her statement that she would play different as town being a flimsy excuse. It's not much, I know. But you've seen me play as town in Avenger's Mafia and you know that having a lynch every day is important to me. Even if I'm not 100% convinced that person is Mafia. And right now I feel like Heroine is our best bet.

I don't mind at all including posts or anything, but again, setup information, I'd rather not be shared.

 

[Jamie]

Just want to add, although things have been changed, the mentality going into making the game is still the same. Whether things could be drawn from the previous setup or not, I can't say for sure, but I still wouldn't be comfortable with it.