Skyward Sword SS. Why So Much Hate?

[ProtagonistJake]

"Expansive" doesn't really mean anything if the amount of content doesn't justify the overworld's size, and quite frankly, the only 3D Zelda game to offer that properly is Majora's Mask. Ocarina of Time had the empty Hyrule Field, The Wind Waker had the empty Great Sea, Twilight Princess had the empty... everything, and Skyward Sword had the (dramatically) empty Sky. Honestly, though, Skyward Sword's provinces were larger than Twilight Princess's. They're a lot denser, so it may not be apparent at first, but they most definitely are. All it takes is a glance at their overworld maps to see why.

fixd

Mainly because the Sky IS basically the Great Sea, except while the Great Sea DID have stuff in it (Problem being the ocean itself was larger in than the amount of content to find in it). The Sky literally has NOTHING except for like 4 slightly bigger rocks with only just some Minigames on them... That's it. Plus everything to find is just shown right to you on the Map, unlike Wind Waker where there was a clever use of the charts, and you actually have to explore the islands to some extent.

 

[JuicieJ]

fixd

Mainly because the Sky IS basically the Great Sea, except while the Great Sea DID have stuff in it (Problem being the ocean itself was larger in than the amount of content to find in it). The Sky literally has NOTHING except for like 4 slightly bigger rocks with only just some Minigames on them... That's it. Plus everything to find is just shown right to you on the Map, unlike Wind Waker where there was a clever use of the charts, and you actually have to explore the islands to some extent.

The Sky was also not the focal point of the game, but rather ONE OF the focal points. The Sky has the surface to fall back on, whereas the Great Sea has some small islands. Not to mention the sailing takes WAY too long, often 5 minutes at a time. Compare that to the Sky's general 30 seconds worth of travel, and you have a much more efficient means of getting from place to place, which IS a big deal.

Honestly, both suck, but the Sky ultimately sucks less.

 

[Rohan]

Honestly, both suck, but the Sky ultimately sucks less.

I guess this is where opinion ultimately comes into play, as I enjoyed the sailing segments. Listening to music and relaxing is a good time. :yes:

 

[Ventus]

I guess this is where opinion ultimately comes into play, as I enjoyed the sailing segments. Listening to music and relaxing is a good time. :yes:

Even better - listening to music and having a sandwich or some other snack.

At any rate, the Sky is meh and the Great Sea is meh, so let us all agree to disagree on that point. And that is also why this isn't SS -HATE- but SS -discontent-.

 

[DarkestLink]

Whether the sky or the sea was more empty is up for debate, but I will say one thing for sure...it definitely took me much less time to find something worth of interest in the sky.

 

[ProtagonistJake]

Whether the sky or the sea was more empty is up for debate, but I will say one thing for sure...it definitely took me much less time to find something worth of interest in the sky.

With infinitely less atmosphere
less personality
and while awkwardly twisting your wrists just to move, while listening to one of the most repetitive overworld songs in Zelda history
Yeah, it takes less time in SS.

Also the Sky DEFINITELY has less stuff in it, thats not debatable, like, at all. It's the matter of the Sky being smaller to compensate for there literally only being just floating bland rocks with chests in the middle to plop on, and being faster to travel across. And the ground area at least has some stuff there to also sorta make up for it.
But even then, none of those areas in SS have nearly as much exploration as the Great Sea in WW or even TP's overworld, which is preposterous.

With Adventure games, the journey should be just as fun and full of stuff to find as the destination. The Great Sea almost captured this but fell short, but at least it bloody tried.
It's literally ALL about getting to your next destination in SS and NOTHING else.
That's probably my biggest issue with it.

 

[Ventus]

while listening to one of the most repetitive overworld songs in Zelda history

I'm sorry but the Great Sea music is also repetitive - in fact every song in the series is repetitive not just in the track, but how many times it plays on an average playthrough. Besides, the Sky Field theme is absolutely gorgeous (in my opinion) so...eeh it's opinion. ;p

But even then, none of those areas in SS have nearly as much exploration as the Great Sea in WW or even TP's overworld, which is preposterous.

Agreed. What exploration is there is literally in a straightline, oftentimes with Fi or some screen panning telling you "hey come here something special awaits you ^^". There was no combing of the area to find any hidden secrets. No grottos. Nothing of that sort. For some, this streamlining is a god-send. And I can see why that would be; it removes the annoyance of looking across this endless field for something possibly as small as twenty rupees. However I love exploring even if the end result is trash. That's what I do in real life, in the video games, and even on this forum with all of my decisions. No exploration is a bad thing, and Skyward Sword's playerbase's reactions to its lack of exploration is testament to that.

 

[Random Person]

The no game is perfect thing means that maybe the game is "perfect" to YOU but other people might see major flaws that you think are simply minor things, everyone else have the right to talk about them, for example alttp is my favourite Zelda game, but others think it's horrible, yeah, can ya believe that?

That wasn't the point about minor flaws. I'm not saying I've ever come across one, but I don't think there isn't such a thing as a perfect game. Then again, if the saying was meant "there will always be critics" then yeah, there will.

 

[ProtagonistJake]

I'm sorry but the Great Sea music is also repetitive - in fact every song in the series is repetitive not just in the track, but how many times it plays on an average playthrough. Besides, the Sky Field theme is absolutely gorgeous (in my opinion) so...eeh it's opinion. ;p

Honestly that Sky theme is the only Zelda song I've ever gotten tired of listening to, like, at all. I'm talking on my first time playthrough here too. Of course you'll get tired of hearing something if you hear it too much, that doesn't make a song repetitive. What make s a song repetitive is when it loops the same short melody over and over. I don't know why the Sky theme is so short, but holy crap, I have those damn 17(?) notes stuck in my head for the rest of my life and I hate it.

But yeah, music is a very subjective topic.

The Sky was also not the focal point of the game, but rather ONE OF the focal points.

Problem being that you have to constantly travel back and forth through the sky with awkward wrist turning after completely the other linear areas you can charge through that also has just as little stuff to find.

The Sky has the surface to fall back on, whereas the Great Sea has some small islands.

I wouldn't say "some" nor I would say "small". I would say a fair amount of large, medium, and small islands, but with a bit too much lacking in significant content.
BUT with the subs to plunder, towers to take down, treasure chests to find beneath the waters using your charts... Bit more to do in the Ocean than in the Sky.

Not to mention the sailing takes WAY too long, often 5 minutes at a time. Compare that to the Sky's general 30 seconds worth of travel, and you have a much more efficient means of getting from place to place, which IS a big deal.

Do you even Cyclone? By the time you really get to go exploring, the Cyclone comes into play, allowing me to never have me travel for freaking 5 minutes. It can take too long, yes, but 5 minutes long? How do you do that? my only problem with the boat is that the things you can do in it don't really control well (Those canon controls man...") which ruins your ability to experiment with places you find in the boat.

Honestly, both suck, but the Sky ultimately sucks less.

If you like just going from point A to point B sure, but I like exploring in adventure games, which is why it's my favorite genre. The Ocean, while flawed, offered that.
The Sky didn't in the slightest.

 

[Random Person]

Honestly that Sky theme is the only Zelda song I've ever gotten tired of listening to, like, at all. I'm talking on my first time playthrough here too. Of course you'll get tired of hearing something if you hear it too much, that doesn't make a song repetitive. What make s a song repetitive is when it loops the same short melody over and over.

Well, even still, I never got tired of music from past Zelda games, even short ones like the lost forest. I even feel SS suffered because it didn't loop what I felt were really well done songs. I think the sky theme itself suffers from the fact that it's setting the wrong tone and the player stops feeling that tone about a third of the way in. While it tries to go that same "epic adventure journey" route like the Great Sea did, the sky is not big enough, mysterious enough, nor complicated enough to feel like you're on some grand adventure throughout the entirety of the game. It's essentially Link's backyard, and you'll be spending so much time in it that it will essentially become your backyard as well. With this backyard feeling, that music that constantly yells in your ear "YOU'RE GOING ON A GRAND ADVENTURE!" gets really tiresome.

 

[ProtagonistJake]

Well, even still, I never got tired of music from past Zelda games, even short ones like the lost forest. I even feel SS suffered because it didn't loop what I felt were really well done songs. I think the sky theme itself suffers from the fact that it's setting the wrong tone and the player stops feeling that tone about a third of the way in. While it tries to go that same "epic adventure journey" route like the Great Sea did, the sky is not big enough, mysterious enough, nor complicated enough to feel like you're on some grand adventure throughout the entirety of the game. It's essentially Link's backyard, and you'll be spending so much time in it that it will essentially become your backyard as well. With this backyard feeling, that music that constantly yells in your ear "YOU'RE GOING ON A GRAND ADVENTURE!" gets really tiresome.

That sounds about right, yeah.

 

[JuicieJ]

With infinitely less atmosphere
less personality

Implying the Great Sea had atmosphere and personality.

and while awkwardly twisting your wrists just to move

Oh, dear, wrist movements, how tedious! Oh, they're so demanding, aren't they? Such physical strength they require...

while listening to one of the most repetitive overworld songs in Zelda history

Nearly every main overworld theme in Zelda is generic fanfare. The only one I've heard so far that ISN'T is Spirit Tracks'.

Also the Sky DEFINITELY has less stuff in it, thats not debatable, like, at all. It's the matter of the Sky being smaller to compensate for there literally only being just floating bland rocks with chests in the middle to plop on, and being faster to travel across. And the ground area at least has some stuff there to also sorta make up for it.

Like I said, the Sky has the surface to fall back on, which ultimately gives SS's overworld as a whole more content than TWW's. It's funny how people always miss that little bit, despite me making it very clear every time. Selective reading, I guess.

But even then, none of those areas in SS have nearly as much exploration as the Great Sea in WW or even TP's overworld, which is preposterous.

The Great Sea may have more exploration, but it doesn't really mean anything due to how shallow it is. As I've gone over before, TWW's sailing requires zero effort, since you're literally not doing anything after setting the wind direction, and there's no depth or variety to the travel. SS's flying certainly isn't much different, but it DOES take some sort of active effort to get from place to place, and, again, it's much faster, making its repetitiveness nowhere near as offensive.

As for TP vs. SS, yeah, no. Both are very linear games, but SS is slightly less linear -- slightly. Reason being, TP never offers any kind of wiggle room until you've completed certain tasks, usually after completing an area's dungeon. SS allows for a little wiggle room the entire time due a significantly smaller amount of hallways and the ability to go off to the side to find hidden objects and whatnot while following the designated path. This is not how Zelda should be handled, but it's not quite as bad as TP... especially considering how SS's level design is vastly superior.

With Adventure games, the journey should be just as fun and full of stuff to find as the destination. The Great Sea almost captured this but fell short, but at least it bloody tried.

"Trying" doesn't really mean anything if what's there isn't as well-executed as it is in another game.

It's literally ALL about getting to your next destination in SS and NOTHING else.

You mean like every other modern Zelda game besides The Minish Cap?

 

[DarkestLink]

I don't see how the sky having less stuff in it is a valid argument when it's like...1/4 the size of the sea. I mean no kidding it has less stuff.

 

[Random Person]

I found SS's approach to the music easier to forgive than most other games. This being because the tunes I didn't like were easy to ignore, whilst in past games the tunes could be very shrill and jarring to those who didn't enjoy them.

Don't worry, I read your whole post even though the first couple of sentences make it seem like I didn't.

Here's the thing, Super Mario Galaxy proved that a game can have orchestrated music and be both extremely catchy and extremely memorable. It also took it's music and applied it to the atmosphere almost perfectly in most of it's levels. The Good Egg Galaxy's tone just gives this vibe of a grande adventure starting, one of which you've never seen before (which is appropriate as it's essentially the first level) while making the tune something extremely hum-able. SS's music showed the atmosphere it was trying to present, but often times fell short of catching the complete atmosphere. While the Kokiri forest tune of OoT demonstrates a feeling of innocence, wonder, and a childhood like atmosphere (which is fitting) the Faron forest theme just says "forest." It's not really helping me feel but just giving me music. Not that the music is bad, but the Zelda series has almost always given me more. Added that to the point that the music just isn't that catchy, this is a noticeable problem for a series that's known for its wonderful, atmospheric and catchy music.

So I can't really give it a break because Zelda has almost always done better, and I can't say it's because of the orchestra because SMG says that's a complete lie. The only thing I can say, is that the music fell short and I'm disapointed.

 

[ProtagonistJake]

Implying the Great Sea had atmosphere and personality.

Wow... Really destroyed my argument there...
Seriously though, if you find the way the Ocean, and the whole game actually, looks anything short of gorgeous... Well, I dont know what to tell you there, but most dont. they find it astounding. Which then creates a gorgeous atmosphere
And most also find the Ocean theme itself to really add to said adventure-esq atmosphere.
And there's a reason people feel that way.

Oh, dear, wrist movements, how tedious! Oh, they're so demanding, aren't they? Such physical strength they require...

Cause I definitely complained about how they were tedious and demanding
absolutely

I said they were awkward at times, mainly when having to go down. Not to mention they're completely unnecessary. It's not a matter of how tiresome they, its a matter of them being a possible hindrance that shouldnt be there to begin with. You gonna tell me those controls were better than simply moving the analog stick?
Youre using apologist logic, not an actual argument.

Nearly every main overworld theme in Zelda is generic fanfare. The only one I've heard so far that ISN'T is Spirit Tracks'.

Music is very subjective I suppose, but the only overworld song I felt that with was with the Sky theme. The problem is it's so short, and loops those same 17(?) notes way too damn much.

Like I said, the Sky has the surface to fall back on, which ultimately gives SS's overworld as a whole more content than TWW's. It's funny how people always miss that little bit, despite me making it very clear every time. Selective reading, I guess.

I literally point out how you said that in another comment, selective reading I guess.

I said that theres nothing in the land under either. Less than the WW at best, and even the little thats there (Which is just basically Goddess cubes and... thats it... Definitely not shallow or anything), it's FORCED right in your face at one point thanks to the stupid dowsing feature, nullifying ANY sense of exploration.

The Great Sea may have more exploration, but it doesn't really mean anything due to how shallow it is.

Yeah... I've said that too. It needs more significant content...

As I've gone over before, TWW's sailing requires zero effort, since you're literally not doing anything after setting the wind direction, and there's no depth or variety to the travel.

... Um, flying/rolling/sidestepping right to your destination is less shallow because...?
In the boat, youre able to use the canon/boomerang/arrows to take down some Octos and get some upgrades, plunder some subs, take down some towers, and rafts, dig for treasures, and of course distract yourself with other islands. The boat could control better, and thats my main problem with the boat.
In MM and to a lesser extent OOT and TP you could travel around the world on foot and use the any of your items with completely solid controls to accomplish that, so it's more shallow in concept but less shallow in execution, I can see that. but-...

SS's flying certainly isn't much different, but it DOES take some sort of active effort to get from place to place, and, again, it's much faster, making its repetitiveness nowhere near as offensive.

Flying is better because you have to move your wrists, which, if I remember, DOESNT take effort according to your very words?
What?
Should all adventure games put some unnecessary active gimmick way to travel across the land? Isnt the point of traveling to find the stuff IN the land, not how you travel? Of course that's important too, but considering the way you fly doesnt require any effort as your sarcastic comment stated, and there's absolutely nothing to find in the land... Youre gonna call The Ocean more shallow?
Ok.

As for TP vs. SS, yeah, no. Both are very linear games, but SS is slightly less linear -- slightly. Reason being, TP never offers any kind of wiggle room until you've completed certain tasks, usually after completing an area's dungeon. SS allows for a little wiggle room the entire time due a significantly smaller amount of hallways and the ability to go off to the side to find hidden objects and whatnot while following the designated path. This is not how Zelda should be handled, but it's not quite as bad as TP... especially considering how SS's level design is vastly superior.

I'd REALLY like you to prove what the hell your talking about, because I'm astounded by how for me, and again, most i've talked to, it's the EXACT OPPOSITE with those two games.
The only thing SS let me do after a Dungeon was either dowse or find the extremely poor hidden Goddess cube and then highlight my way to a rock with a chest on it, and go back to the main island to make my weed into a new shield.
TP, while interrupting me with the crappy wolf, after completely a dungeon allowed me to actually explore the local area. Or even after a Wolf section. have you seen all the crap you can do after the final crappy bug hunt with the wolf? Before the water temple?
I got a piece of heart by doing the fishing minigame which also allowed me to collect another bottle, cleared the stream and got another bomb bag with the river boat minigame, Got more pieces of heart with the flying cucco minigame, and thats just inside the local Area.
The best part with those things you can do it's not the same thing over and over like with the Goddess chests and upgrading, with occasion the same 3 island minigames over and over.
So yeah
No idea what you're talking about there mate

"Trying" doesn't really mean anything if what's there isn't as well-executed as it is in another game.

K, then SS's motion controls suck because the mingame in Nintendo Land, and even Red Steel 2 did them better, as in allowed for more ACTUAL 1:1 movement.

SS's combat sucks because WW allowed for very smooth and natural use of weapons in combat, while in SS, it's near impossible because of the controls, so youre restricted to the Sword. I know I never used the bow in combat.

SS's origin story sucks because it was done better in other games. Heck, even in other Zelda games (Minish cap)

SS's overworld sucked because it doesnt have as much content in it as even TP's

It's astounding how much this argument works against everything SS tried to do.

You mean like every other modern Zelda game besides The Minish Cap?

... Okay I don't know what series you've been playing.
Clearly it's not the same one that has LOZ(NES), LTTP, LA, MM, TWW, PH, etc...
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