Origin of the Song of Storms: Termina

[Djinn]

The whole thing has become another time paradox mess. I do not think Link actually composed anything, he heard Guru-Guru playing it in the future, then replayed it for Guru-Guru in the past. Link heard it then replayed it to the very person he heard it from who in turn replays it to Link for the first time. It brings up the same situation as who wrote Johnny Be Good in Back to the Future or where exactly did the jet engine in Donnie Darko really come from. Which event happened first? This is the very brain hurting time space continuum cause and effect not making sense craziness that makes heads explode. This one might have to remain a mystery.

And besides we do not want to dig too deep into the whole space time nonsense or else it will be giant fish in bear suits all over again.

And nobody ever wants that.

 

[Sasuke Uchiha]

That's true. He learned the song in the past or future but he didn't know it in his own reality. He must have taken a different storyline originally, but was defeated. He, in the process must have gotten to at least the well of spirits, but the Link who had gotten there later in his original life time must have learned it in advance and that saved his life. Good point!! I realized that was a paradox, but I never realized how deep it went. But it's not a full paradox, it would only have occurred once.

 

[SuperGanondorf]

I don't consider it a "paradox". A paradox is when something happens in time that essentially screws up time beyond repair. For instance, you go back in time to kill your grandfather as a boy. If you kill him, you'll never have been born, so you couldn't have gone back in time to kill him, so he'd be alive... You get the point (Oracle of Ages used almost exactly this scenario, but that's a different topic altogether). This is in no way paradoxical. Besides, technically Link did play it before he learned it from Guru-Guru because everything you do as a child takes place first. It's really irrelevant where he learned it- the fact remains that Link was the first to use it. So, confusing and illogical as it may be, it is not paradoxical. It originated from Link.

 

[Djinn]

Actually this is the very definition of an Ontological Paradox.

An ontological paradox is a paradox of time travel that questions the existence and creation of information and objects that travel in time. It is very closely related to the predestination paradox and usually occurs at the same time. In simpler terms, an object is brought back in time, and it becomes the object that was initially brought back in time in the first place.

However, a scenario can occur where items or information are passed from the future to the past, which then become the same items or information that are subsequently passed back. This not only creates a loop, but a situation where these items have no discernible origin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontological_paradox

Only this time the object in question is the Song itself. As it has no clear origin due to time travel. Link learned a song from someone who learned it from him. The very closed nature of the whole event makes it paradoxical.

 

[MikauIncarnate]

I saw something that made this make sense somewhere, involving how after he came back, he knew it, then played it, then... something...

 

[Sasuke Uchiha]

Link is in his own paradox. He changed his own reality in the future that was created from his own past. That fits the definition of a paradox. Trust me, I study things like these. They interest me greatly.

 

[DuckNoises]

This is already a topic, and I will be merging it with the old one.

 

[gneithamer1]

So this theory is not mine. It's something that I read on a Zelda Universe forum, posted by user Master of ALttP. Thought I'd credit him before sharing his ideas.


Let's look at how time travel appears to Link. When he draws the Master Sword from the Pedestal of Time, he is surrounded by blue light, blacks out for a second or so, and then arrives seven years in the future as an adult. This trip can be expressed by a single, unbroken line.

1. Link draws Master Sword.
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2. Link ages seven years.
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3. Link awakes in the future.

To Link, the seven years of aging is instantaneous, as his consciousness has essentially been turned off. Now, let's create a hypothetical situation. Let's say that Hylee In was looking around the Temple of Time at some point after Link had originally drawn the Master Sword and returned to the past. Hylee In then seens a young boy dressed in a green tunic and funny cap run into the Temple of Time. Curious as to what the boy is up to, Hylee In decides to follow him. He stands outside the Door of Time, and watches Link as he grabs the Master Sword. Link is then engulfed in a blue light and vanishes completely.

Hylee In is then cast into a vegetative state of shock and now spends almost all his time inside the Temple of Time. Seven years later, while watching the spot Link had been when he disappeared, a man dressed in a green tunic and a funny cap appears out of a blue light. The man, completely shocked at what he has seen this time, runs screaming out of the Temple of Time, where his brains are consumed by a ReDead. These events can be represented by this line.

1. Hylee In sees Link grab Master Sword.
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2. Link disappears in blue light.
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3. Hylee In is in vegetative state of shock.
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4. Link appears out of nowhere.
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5. Hylee In runs from Temple of Time.
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6. ReDeads feast on Hylee In's scrambled brains.

Essentially, this is a broken line. To anyone observing Link, Link's timeline is broken. However, to Link, his timeline is a continuous line. Even when Link goes back in time, his line remains a single, continuous line which always moves forward. To observors, however, he appears to skip around at random.

Now, that had nothing to do with the Song of Storms Paradox, but I felt that it would be worthwhile to explain it. So, let's look at the Song of Storms. As has been said, it creates a Chicken and the Egg Paradox. For the chicken to exist, the egg must exist. For the egg to exist, the chicken must exist. This works the same way as the Storms Paradox. For Link to learn the Song of Storms, the Windmill Man must have learned the Song of Storms from the "Ocarina Kid." For the "Ocarina Kid" to teach the Song of Storms to the Windmill Man, the "Ocarina Kid" must have learned the song from somewhere.

As we all know, the "Ocarina Kid" is Link. Or is he? Perhaps at some point, there was just some strange kid with a strange ocarina who played a strange song which drained the strange well. As in mohammedali's comment about the creator of a popular song becoming irrelevant, we see that the original Ocarina Kid becomes irrelevant. I think it all can be explained in this diagram.

1. Link pulls Master Sword from pedestal for first time and enters unconscious existence within the Sacred Realm.
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2. "Ocarina Kid" comes to Kakariko and drains the well with the Song of Storms.
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3. Link awakens from his sleep and travels to Kakariko, where he learns the Song of Storms from the Windmill Man.

After Link learns the Song of Storms from the Windmill Man, he goes back in time, assuming that he was the one who originally played the Song of Storms. So, now our line looks like this. Remember to read the events in numerical order.

1. Link pulls Master Sword from pedestal for first time and enters unconscious existence within the Sacred Realm.
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5. Link arrives in past and travels to Kakariko to drain the well.
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6. Link plays the Song of Storms and drains the well, and the Windmill Man learns the Song of Storms.
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7. Link enters the well to find the "Eye of Truth," then goes back to the Temple of Time to return to the future.
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2. "Ocarina Kid" comes to Kakariko and drains the well with the Song of Storms. The Windmill Man learns the Song of Storms from the "Ocarina Kid."
8. *Event 2 is replaced by event 8, which is as follows.* "Ocarina Kid" arrives in Kakariko, and sees that the well is empty. He continues on with whatever journey he was previously on, seeing that he can't use his mysterious song to cause chaos.
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3. Link awakens from his sleep and travels to Kakariko, where he learns the Song of Storms from the Windmill Man.
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4. Link travels back in time, assuming he was the one who originally played the Song of Storms. Return to 5.
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9. Link arrives in the future again, and goes to Kakariko to enter the Shadow Temple. He sees that the well is still empty from his actions seven years ago.

As we can see here, there was an "Ocarina Kid" who was separate from Link who started the whole cycle. Once Link learns the Song of Storms and returns to the past to drain the well, he ends up replacing the "Ocarina Kid," who then becomes irrelevant to the course of events. A time loop is then created, wherein knowledge from the future is taken to the past, which is then carried on to the future to be taken to the past once more. In doing this, a paradox does not exist, so long as there was in fact an original "Ocarina Kid."



I thought it was a cool theory and brought up some interesting points.

 

[Jimmy]

That's actually a very cool idea. When I first read it I wanted to find a flaw in it but it seems pretty sound to me. Essentially:

Event A --leads to--> Event B --leads to--> Event C --leads to--> Event B --leads to--> Event C etc

Then if Event C (in this case being Link draining the well and teaching Guru Guru the Song of Storms) both stops Event A and causes Event B, then an infinite loop is created. Sorry to paraphrase but I wanted to find a work out a more readable formula for it

 

[Swordbomb]

i am confused with this link makes a time paradox that messes with my brain so simply it is a game that they made so they can make it however they want it to be

 

[Michael Heide]

Perhaps at some point, there was just some strange kid with a strange ocarina who played a strange song which drained the strange well. [...] Once Link learns the Song of Storms and returns to the past to drain the well, he ends up replacing the "Ocarina Kid," who then becomes irrelevant to the course of events. A time loop is then created, wherein knowledge from the future is taken to the past, which is then carried on to the future to be taken to the past once more. In doing this, a paradox does not exist, so long as there was in fact an original "Ocarina Kid."

While I don't like this theory (I prefer my closed circle paradoxes to be infinite in both directions), I'll have to admit that I think it works. I would be a lot happier if we actually saw the "Original Ocarina Kid" in the game, but that theory should provide some closure even without that.

Nice work.

 

[The Shadow]

What if it was another kid who had played the song but without the magical effect, they played it in the windmill, then Link (Child) came along and played it. This would allow guru-guru to learn the song not from Link but still allow for Link to play the song and make Guru-Guru so mad. My next thought is to who this child is, maybe the ghost shop owner? he seems quite mysterious.

And yes I realise there is probably some huge hole in my theory but I'm trying to make good ones and I'm kinda tired right now.

 

[Hyrulian]

aren't we reading a little to deep into this? I thought about it the first time a saw it (well, after I got old enough to understand the paradox) then I realized, they didn't have a reason for it all! it was just something silly they added into the game, to make you giggle.

 

[Djinn]

aren't we reading a little to deep into this? I thought about it the first time a saw it (well, after I got old enough to understand the paradox) then I realized, they didn't have a reason for it all! it was just something silly they added into the game, to make you giggle.

But trying to figure out the why and how of these little things are the reason we have sections set aside for theorists. The Zelda series has raised so many questions and created so many mysteries that many just cannot help but spend large amounts of time trying to figure out exactly how it happened. Or what the origin might be. I honestly cannot think of any other series that has attracted the curiosity of so many players like Zelda has. Now we do not know if those holes left in the plot that we constantly try to fill in so often are actually intentional by the developers or are simply left there because they had little interest in finishing them. But it is fun just trying to put the evidence we have with our own imaginations to find answers that are not given in any game so far.

Now onto the topic. This has really become a chicken or the egg situation with no real end in sight. But what I find interesting is that Nintendo decided to include the line about the Composer Bros. learning the song in Majora's Mask. This sounded strange to me since Link at that time should have already known the song from OoT earlier. Why would Nintendo create an origin story for a song that we should already know the origin to? And make that origin a separate character in a separate world?

The song also seems to have a strange ability to summon fairies in certain locations. Near the oasis and around beanstalks fairies are summoned by the song. It could be possible that the song was a fairy song in origin as it is tied to water and nature. It summons rain and causes fairies to appear near water. These do not sound like results that a song composed by a demon or written in total sadness would create. It looks to be connected to nature in some way and acts as a countermeasure to Sharpe's Curse. Which is described as siphoning the life force and killing whoever hears it. Which means that the Melody of Darkness takes life, the Song of Storms gives, or at least returns life. This has historically been the main attribute of fairies in Hyrule, they return Link's life when hurt. So it could be that no one seen in game actually composed the song itself but it could be a much more ancient fairy song that various musicians hear and replay on their own often creating results including rain.

 

[The Shadow]

Djinn, the egg. My theory behind the egg is if chickens evovled from dinosaurs then the egg would have been laid by the species that led to the chicken and then the first chicken would have been born.