OoX and LA

[Zemen]

Or I'm just winning

Maybe because LttP/LA wasn't set in stone? The Miyamoto interview in 1998 he said that LA could go anywhere.

Proof that all of the monsters inside the dream were originally good? Why would the Wind Fish be dreaming of Blaino, Facade or any of the others?

you just said in a different thread that creator quotes are sometimes wrong.

he never said they were good. he just said they became hostile. that could mean a number of things. maybe at some point they all stayed in their own spots and only attacked those who came by but now that they decided to rampage. im just telling you what the quote said and the quote implies that they were there before link and as i said, if that was the case then those are monsters from the wind fish's past, not links. they cant be links past experiences if link wasnt even there yet.

 

[sign of table]

you just said in a different thread that creator quotes are sometimes wrong.

I misworded it. I said that some people think that in-game evidence < creator quote. And the creator quote that was being used was mistranslated.

he never said they were good. he just said they became hostile. that could mean a number of things. maybe at some point they all stayed in their own spots and only attacked those who came by but now that they decided to rampage. im just telling you what the quote said and the quote implies that they were there before link and as i said, if that was the case then those are monsters from the wind fish's past, not links. they cant be links past experiences if link wasnt even there yet.

And nothing says that every single monster was there before. Also, wouldn't the bosses have been caused by the nightmare? I mean Lanmola appears as both a boss and a nightmare IIRC. So if the end nightmare boss is canon then wouldn't the other bosses in the game be canon because they were most likely caused by the same thing? And I have more bosses than you.

Oh and the only non-dream piece of evidence is the boat.

 

[Zemen]

if you havent figured out by now, i dont care about the boat. im gonna argue reused design all day and all night. you know of all people that im open to certain ideas but in this case i am not. in the real world, in ancient times, armies would have hundreds of boats that all look the same. why does the fact there are two boats that look the same in the zelda world intrigue you so much? does every game that has a raft that looks the same go back to back? what about games that use the same bow design or the same boomerang design? are they the same weapon in every game?

all of the dungeons were locked when you get to the island. you wash up on the beach and right away if you go to the first dungeon its locked. this im sure we can agree on.

with that in mind, that means that the dungeons were already inhabited by monsters and its bosses before Link even got there which means that the bosses were put in place before Link was there to have memories used against him. but if the final boss can tap into his past then it makes sense why it can turn into his past enemies. i never said the bosses werent canon but they were all there before Link even got to the island so how could they be based on link when he wasnt there yet?

 

[sign of table]

if you havent figured out by now, i dont care about the boat. im gonna argue reused design all day and all night. you know of all people that im open to certain ideas but in this case i am not. in the real world, in ancient times, armies would have hundreds of boats that all look the same. why does the fact there are two boats that look the same in the zelda world intrigue you so much? does every game that has a raft that looks the same go back to back? what about games that use the same bow design or the same boomerang design? are they the same weapon in every game?

It's not the fact that there are two boats. It's the fact that OoX ends almost the exact same way that LA begins. In a boat. That's intent.

with that in mind, that means that the dungeons were already inhabited by monsters and its bosses before Link even got there which means that the bosses were put in place before Link was there to have memories used against him. but if the final boss can tap into his past then it makes sense why it can turn into his past enemies. i never said the bosses werent canon but they were all there before Link even got to the island so how could they be based on link when he wasnt there yet?

And the Wind Fish was being tortured by the nightmares before Link got on the island too. So the nightmares can't be based on Link's life either.
How could the Wind Fish be dreaming of things that haven't happened yet?

 

[Zemen]

It's not the fact that there are two boats. It's the fact that OoX ends almost the exact same way that LA begins.

except the BS for LA implies that after relaxing in Hyrule he set sail to train. doesnt mention him setting sail from any foreign countries.

And the Wind Fish was being tortured by the nightmares before Link got on the island too. So the nightmares can't be based on Link's life either.
How could the Wind Fish be dreaming of things that haven't happened yet?

so youre basically saying right now that the things in the dream arent based off of Links past. this would mean that the exclusive enemies dont matter.

 

[sign of table]

except the BS for LA implies that after relaxing in Hyrule he set sail to train. doesnt mention him setting sail from any foreign countries.

It says that you hadn't achieved tranquility for long and set sail to train. Look at the ending cutscene of OoX. He doesn't leave immediatly.

so youre basically saying right now that the things in the dream arent based off of Links past. this would mean that the exclusive enemies dont matter.

No, I'm using the same logic that you're using showing that you'd be a hypocrite to think that Agahnim matters but the rest of the enemies don't.

 

[Zemen]

It says that you hadn't achieved tranquility for long and set sail to train.

the BS still implies that Link left Hyrule and since the game was made before OoX then there is a 99.99% chance that its meant to mean he left Hyrule for training.

No, I'm using the same logic that you're using showing that you'd be a hypocrite to think that Agahnim matters but the rest of the enemies don't.

its the nightmare shadow that is using links past, not the dream itself. this means that the nightmare shadow can turn into links past enemies but its pretty clear that the other enemies were there before Link was meaning they arent based on links past.

 

[sign of table]

the BS still implies that Link left Hyrule and since the game was made before OoX then there is a 99.99% chance that its meant to mean he left Hyrule for training.

It says that you restored peace to Hyrule, hadn't achieved tranquility for long and left for training. What part of that is a contradiction with OoX/LA? Because all of it applies.

its the nightmare shadow that is using links past, not the dream itself. this means that the nightmare shadow can turn into links past enemies but its pretty clear that the other enemies were there before Link was meaning they arent based on links past.

It's pretty clear that the nightmare shadow was there before Link came, too.

 

[Zemen]

It says that you restored peace to Hyrule, hadn't achieved tranquility for long and left for training.

no, it says that he had not enjoyed the tranquility for long. that doesnt mean the tranquility didnt last long. it just means that he didnt get to enjoy it for very long. doesnt mean the tranquility isnt still there. it also says that he left because he became restless. it doesnt imply that some new evil arose and he had to check it out. he just wanted to get away.

it's pretty clear that the nightmare shadow was there before Link came, too.

but the shadow is the mastermind. maybe it can sense links past in his mind (since its a dream) and change based on that sensing of his past. the shadow can see his past in his thoughts but the other bosses and monsters are just his underlings which means they wouldnt have this ability. the shadow nightmare changes ITS OWN physical appearance when it chooses too but it obviously cant change the physical appearance of the dream itself.

 

[sign of table]

no, it says that he had not enjoyed the tranquility for long. that doesnt mean the tranquility didnt last long. it just means that he didnt get to enjoy it for very long. doesnt mean the tranquility isnt still there. it also says that he left because he became restless. it doesnt imply that some new evil arose and he had to check it out. he just wanted to get away.

If you look at the context of what I said that's kinda what I meant. But thanks for correcting me.

the shadow can see his past in his thoughts but the other bosses and monsters are just his underlings which means they wouldnt have this ability.

Can I have some proof of that, please?

 

[Zemen]

If you look at the context of what I said that's kinda what I meant. But thanks for correcting me. Can I have some proof of that, please?

ill show you proof of that when you show me proof that the monsters are supposed to be based on Links past.

 

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Well considering the nightmare is based on Link's past and the bosses are clearly linked to the nightmare I'd say that's proof that they were part of Link's past. But I still think that the boat is more intent than Agahnim, anyway.

Also, why would the Wind Fish be dreaming of Blaino when he hasn't even existed yet?

 

[MrMosley]

I think its pretty obvious for most people who have really played and read into the old school games that LA is a sequel to ALttP. The only reasoning I have heard that people believe otherwise is the boat at the end and the similar creatures. The boat at the end of OoX does look an awful lot like the one in LA, and the creatures are exactly the same, but people have to remember that OoX were made using recycled graphics from LA.

That means that everything in LA was at Capcoms disposal when making the Oracle titles, even the scenes. It would be very simple to take the sea/boat design at the beginning of LA, add some color to it, and throw it at the end of OoX, rather than having to re-create an entire scene. They already done enough of that throughout the game itself.

So, ALttP-->LA...Then OoX comes sometime later.

 

[Zemen]

Well considering the nightmare is based on Link's past and the bosses are clearly linked to the nightmare I'd say that's proof that they were part of Link's past. But I still think that the boat is more intent than Agahnim, anyway.

Also, why would the Wind Fish be dreaming of Blaino when he hasn't even existed yet?

thats you assuming that the entire dream is based on Links past when the whole dream is supposed to be the wind fishs dream.

everything you and i have argued is assumptions which means that there is no conclusive answer. you have a boat and enemies. i have the fact that it was originally supposed to be a sequel and that it has a past boss in it. like dark link said, its all most likely just reused graphics.

 

[sign of table]

Yes, but Agahnim is clearly a cameo as well. Oh and there is possibly an Agahnim in OoX.

I just don't see how you can deny the obvious intent in the ending of OoX.