Member Treatment - Are we being fair to the members of the community?

[Guest_1]

So, before I begin, I just want to say that I appreciate what the staff around here does. Moderating and maintaining a community this size is not an easy feat. This thread is not a knock on you guys in any way. That said, I feel that there is an issue that has gone unaddressed for far too long, and something needs to be done about it.

There has been an issue with how the forum staff has been treating certain members. I have noticed in my lurking that the staff tends to have to tapdance around certain individuals because they feel that they cannot or are not allowed to deal with members who have a history of causing toxic arguments but are in staff positions. It should not matter if someone is a staff member, administrator, moderator, wiki admin, what have you, if someone breaks the rules of the forum, then their behavior needs to be addressed far beyond locking a thread. If a regular member who was not staff were caught breaking the rules, that person would have been given warnings or infractions, if need be.

That is not being fair to the members of the community at all. If someone such as myself were to go into a thread and cause a flame war or toxic argument, then I or whoever caused it should be reprimanded as the situation dictates. Why does having a staff banner or position on the site make someone above the rules? Regardless of position, we're all still members of the community and should be bound by the same set of rules.

This sets a very bad precedence in the community that simply cannot continue, especially with regards to the possible forum merger. That said, let me go ahead and ask of you guys some basic questions:

Have the staff treated members fairly?
Has anyone felt they or someone else has been given preferential or differential treatment that shouldn't have occurred?
Should staff of all types be held accountable for how their actions reflect on the community?
What can be done to prevent instances of staff of all types from becoming involved in these types of situations in the future?
Do we need to re-evaluate our rules and how they are implemented?

I understand that no one is perfect. I understand that we make mistakes, but some mistakes cannot be allowed to continue or repeat in the interest of fairness to the people who take time out of their day to participate in this community.

Thank you for reading.

 

[Deleted member 14134]

The mods on the forums are openly corrupt. That's why you need to get banned first before you become a mod, that way you're proving your're willing to openly break the rules which is a requirement for being a moderator.

 

[DARK MASTER]

I agree there is still remnants of this problem, but our current forum staff (Jimmy in particular) have done an amazing job (like those that know me understand I’m rarely this complementary). Though it doesn’t change that overall this problem still exists and it is great you made this thread so we may continue to discuss how we can improve this issue.

Hopefully we may have a productive conversation.

 

[Guest_1]

I would argue you haven't been lurking enough then. Your view may have been applicable in the past but currently I can't think of any member of staff that's been toxic towards members what so ever.

Although it wouldn't surprise me if the issue you describe crops up again in the future. I'll admit I'm a little nervous about new mods coming in from ZI as I feel our current set-up is one of the best set ups we've had here on ZD, I don't want that broken. This forum has a long history of corrupt staff members and sadly we could do nothing about it. Naturally when staff are corrupt you go to higher management, but sadly he has a habit of not listening and only acting when it's too late.

Not sure what else can be done when such a situation arises.

I'm not necessarily talking just forum staff, but site staff as well. With that said, what would you describe this as, if not the very thing I'm describing in the OP right now? That instance is just the most recent example of what I'm talking about, where some former and current staff were not reprimanded for their actions in that thread. They're all still members no matter their positions, why shouldn't they be held to the same rules as everybody else? If you cause a thread to dissolve into accusations and fingerpointing, that should warrant something from the staff beyond locking a thread and telling everybody not to do it again.

 

[Jirohnagi]

I do feel like some staff members past and present should be gagged. Especially when in reality they have no affiliation with the forums bar harping on about random topics but aside from a few really bad cases the site staff have been solid, they give everyone a fair chance and when it comes to people (such as me flaming) they get shut down fast and hard. But yes i do agree with your last point there Selenus, if you derail a thread to such a point where it just becomes accusations then what's the point of you being there? Messages like that need to be removed quickly or at least the troublemaker gagged for some peace of mind.

 

[Terminus]

The current batch of staff is by and large the least abusive bunch I've seen since I joined here.

 

[Jirohnagi]

The current batch of staff is by and large the least abusive bunch I've seen since I joined here.

Gotta agree with this, been here 6 years on and off, i missed some abusive admins but i do think this group of mods/admins/ccs are the most friendliest we've had in a LOOOOOOOONG time

 

[DARK MASTER]

The current batch of staff is by and large the least abusive bunch I've seen since I joined here.

I agree, but this isn't so much about them, rather how our community deals with this problem overall. I think Selenus wants to make sure this is talked about so that we can improve as a community.

 

[A Link In Time]

I think the forum staff has learned from last year how to deal with problematic members among the staff. We now have a new proactive administrator in Jimmy, an administrator who frequently fishes for new forum add-ons in Djinn, and the longest serving moderator in Zelda Dungeon forum history in Vanessa. That's not to mention all the other mods and Community Coordinators who do a good job of enforcing the rules, banning bots, and creating fun new events for the community to participate in. If there's any problematic behavior, I think a simple report should suffice in keeping the problem under control. While I'm wary of the upcoming merger with ZI, as Dan also alluded to, their current forum administrator has shown a willingness to work with our community to make things easier for everyone.

 

[Nathanial Rumphol-Janc]

Only been here a short while, but it does suck that my first thread I participated in and got to know this community through contained such an issue. In fact, that thread got locked after I suggested to the mod team that it be locked and restarted in the first place. It was getting way too off topic. I also asked about what the rules and policies were in place for the ongoing behavior in that thread but it was pretty hohum - policies aren't fully fleshed out here.

I will tell you folks that I stressed to the forum staff that I when this merge occurs I really want the ZI mentality to come through - as in - no one is above the rules. No staff member - that includes myself - are above what is going on. It's unfortunate to hear this use to happen in the past too. We generally at ZI haven't had many issues like this occur over the last few years, but we changed how we do things. I am in the process of getting the ZI and ZD forum teams on the same page moving forward and getting everything more fleshed out, because I wholeheartedly agree - no one, member/staff/admin or otherwise are above what the community standards are.

That being said, I've heard good things about this current mod team and based on my short time talking to them, they all seem to be on the same page with me so far. Trying to get things to be fair across the board. Equality.

This is already a massive focus over at ZI the last year and a half and it will continue to be a focus moving forward. I hope 6 months from now you can all look back and agree that this is no longer an issue at all, even in a small way.

 

[Vanessa28]

I will tell you folks that I stressed to the forum staff that I when this merge occurs I really want the ZI mentality to come through - as in - no one is above the rules. No staff member - that includes myself - are above what is going on. It's unfortunate to hear this use to happen in the past too. We generally at ZI haven't had many issues like this occur over the last few years, but we changed how we do things. I am in the process of getting the ZI and ZD forum teams on the same page moving forward and getting everything more fleshed out, because I wholeheartedly agree - no one, member/staff/admin or otherwise are above what the community standards are.

THIS.
Nobody is above any member. This is why I always participated in Forum games even after I became a mod. I was told not interact with the members like that so often but I'm glad I never listened. I always loved to have fun and not be serious all the time and why would this change by being a mod? Sure, we have responsibilities but it shouldn't take away the fun with other members. We all started as members. The love for games (in this case Zelda) brought us here. Never ever should any staff member behave like they're special and need special treatment. If a mod/admin/wiki admin/CC or whatever -more is misbehaving, he or she should be called out for this. No exceptions.

 

[Dio]

THIS.
Nobody is above any member. This is why I always participated in Forum games even after I became a mod. I was told not interact with the members like that so often but I'm glad I never listened. I always loved to have fun and not be serious all the time and why would this change by being a mod? Sure, we have responsibilities but it shouldn't take away the fun with other members. We all started as members. The love for games (in this case Zelda) brought us here. Never ever should any staff member behave like they're special and need special treatment. If a mod/admin/wiki admin/CC or whatever -more is misbehaving, he or she should be called out for this. No exceptions.

Its good you didn't listen. Unfortunately some people who were good members here and made the forums a better place with their posts reduced this activity once being promoted.

 

[Mellow Ezlo]

I have noticed one member in who has never been reprimanded for his actions in particular, because Mases likes the work he does on something totally unrelated to the forums. This person was causing many problems during the great "ZD Civil War" in October (there were problems from both sides, but this member was the main cause of every thing that happened then). Just recently, in the Forum Change Concerns Thread, this member started causing even more problems and got called out many times, within that thread and in the SB. He was caught lying in that thread, to Mases himself, and nothing's ever been done about him. He's caused many problems and is the reason I got myself banned so I could leave back in October.

I'm not naming names, but everybody knows who I'm talking about. For the most part, the rules are enforced, but this one person seems to get away with everything just because Mases likes the work he does on the wiki. In fact, Mases himself even said that. I hate saying this about people, but honestly, the forums would be a better place without this person.

If this member knows who he/she is and would like to talk about it, please do so in private so as not to cause more problems within this thread. I know you're dying to, but try to resist.

 

[Nathanial Rumphol-Janc]

It just occurred to me when rereading my post. Go to the higher management, in this case if Mases doesn't listen we could always give his mother a phone call and tell her he's been a naughty boy, I suspect she may sort him out for us.

Once things merge, I'll be the higher management with Mases right above that, but I won't be bringing most forum issues to him down the road unless he's absolutely needed. And I can assure you I'll be around and I do care, and if I step out of line I want the staff to call me out on it and enact appropriate punishment if necessary.

 

[Nathanial Rumphol-Janc]

I have noticed one member in who has never been reprimanded for his actions in particular, because Mases likes the work he does on something totally unrelated to the forums. This person was causing many problems during the great "ZD Civil War" in October (there were problems from both sides, but this member was the main cause of every thing that happened then). Just recently, in the Forum Change Concerns Thread, this member started causing even more problems and got called out many times, within that thread and in the SB. He was caught lying in that thread, to Mases himself, and nothing's ever been done about him. He's caused many problems and is the reason I got myself banned so I could leave back in October.

I'm not naming names, but everybody knows who I'm talking about. For the most part, the rules are enforced, but this one person seems to get away with everything just because Mases likes the work he does on the wiki. In fact, Mases himself even said that. I hate saying this about people, but honestly, the forums would be a better place without this person.

If this member knows who he/she is and would like to talk about it, please do so in private so as not to cause more problems within this thread. I know you're dying to, but try to resist.

Been here a short while, but I have a feeling I know who you're referring too.

What I want to make clear moving forward when the merge happens and everything is fleshed out, I sort of what everyone to have a clean slate. I don't want to have jaded attitudes towards past actions when we enter a new era, rather let future actions by members determine what if any punishments occur. I can ensure you however - I was the one that got the thread shut down and I am not adverse to taking appropriate action to all members, regardless of who or what they do elsewhere. The nice thing about the forums being at Zelda Informer is that, while there are close ties to Zelda Dungeon, reality is it runs under our banner - thus ZI's long term reputation, and we don't allow that nonsense anywhere else on the site, so it won't be tolerated on ZI either.

I can't tell you what would happen down the line - I don't control anyone's actions. But I can tell you that making sure we address these things in future post merge behavior is #1 on my slate to get sorted with all the forum staff. Because first and foremost, the concern in any community aspect is for the health of that community, regardless of which member we are talking about.

Again, everyone is equal and no one is above anyone else, including the rules. This I can promise you. I don't expect anyone to simply believe me of course. You will just have to see the proof in the post merging world first hand.

I sincerely hope you can all see in the new era just how supportive the staff, including myself at the top, are to maintaining it. Drama has no place at Zelda Informer. It won't have a place at the ZI forums either. That doesn't mean I plan to censor anyone. Rather, the natural rules will take out a lot of the stuff that leads to drama in the first place, and instead concerns will be addressed in appropriate threads with appropriate responses, rather than letting it bleed and fester all over the whole of the community, leading to a total derailing of the community.

Not sure that has happened here, but I've seen it first hand many years ago at other boards.