Game Thread Inception Mafia

[Deleted member 14134]

You guys really should have had two people commit suicide and kill Ryuken yesterday. Uncle Bok won't always be here to tell you guys what to do.

Dream cop seems to help the mafia way more than it would help town. Hunting down dreamers would be essential for them to stop town from reaching DS3 and the role wouldn't be any use to town besides being able to confirm if someone claims dreamer for a certain period (which would be obvious when no counter claim happened anyways).

Vote: Ryuken

I think I've stated my other reasons why I want ryu gone in another life already.

 

[Deleted member 14134]

Also, don't worry about Limbo anymore, I don't think that's going to be a problem for us from this point on.

 

[Rubik]

One possible strategy, if people end up set on validating the results of the Ryu lynch from D2, would be to not have anyone suicide today and then have Ryu target someone tonight and then tell us the results of his ability tomorrow and then kill himself after doing so.

If he targets the dreamer and is himself town it will make LyLo a little easier to navigate because we'll know for sure the identity of the dreamer. If he refuses to suicide, we can kill him because it would mean he was scum (because forcing us to use the lynch on him in that situation would mean loss for town if he were town). If scum NKs him to hide the result of his action, we'll have ensured at least that the nk targeted someone we wanted dead in the first place.

I suppose the downside is that we'd let scum get 1 more resolution of his ability if he is actually scum, but that's not especially relevant now that we're back in the real world and getting to the third layer is extremely unlikely. A dream cop is somewhat useful for town in this situation and not especially useful for scum.

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The downside to this strategy is primarily that it denies us the knowledge of his alignment until tomorrow, which gives us less to work off of today. If we're going to lynch him instead of forcing him to suicide, though, I'd probably rather go with my strategy instead, though.

I don't really have a strong read on Ryu either way, but I think knowing his alignment could make it easier to figure out which players alignments from their voting records. Forcing him to suicide could give us information to base today's lynch off of because we don't really know much from D2/D3 and we've already got a voting record from D2 on who wanted to lynch Ryu.

 

[Rubik]

TL;DR:

If we're going to kill Ryu, it should either be a forced suicide today or a forced suicide tomorrow. Lynching him normally would be wasteful.

 

[Rubik]

I want to see what @karu and @Ragnarokio have to say about the game.

 

[Ryuken]

............

I just got back from a late shift at work, and after reading the most recent posts and votes, I'm gonna have to do some rereading and come up with a reads list. As far as my stance on inactives go, I get the feeling that Rag, karu, and Keiko (replaced by Bok) are not in fact scum due to the sheer length in time it's been since they made their last post. If they flip scum after either being lynched or modkilled, that's gonna leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Now as for Dream Cop being a Mafia role... I don't know why you guys would think that.

Let's assume I am this "Mafia Dream Cop." Once D2 starts I check my ball cap to see if I'm in a dreamscape. Then I place my vote on Ayano Keiko. I then use my ability to find out who the dreamer is for DS1, and it turns out to be EVAN (AKA Domozilla). I then keep my vote on Keiko despite the rising suspicion on me and eventually, I decide to unvote, then vote Bok (who I originally read as Town). I get lynched and sent to the real world. N2 passes, and Bok is nightkilled. Everyone else enters DS2 in D3, I'm assuming. D3 passes, and Keiko gets lynched. Neither of these players are Dreamers. Finally, N3 comes around, and Domozilla (replaced by Bok) is nightkilled, sending everyone to the real world.

Do these actions really make sense for Mafia? Sure, me claiming I'm Dream Cop now after Domozilla died seems scummy, but if the Mafia knew who the Dreamer was, why would they waste a nightkill on a non-Dreamer townie and let Town get closer to DS3? That's what doesn't make sense to me. Mafia would have acted a lot sooner, perhaps even try raising suspicion on that Dreamer during the day to get them lynched.

I'll have a lot more to say after I do some rereading, but I thought I'd share my defense along with some other thoughts now before I head to bed.

 

[Doc]

Jesus Bok. Are you ever going to stay dead?

A Dreamer Cop seems like an odd role for town to have. Figuring out who the dreamer is would have almost no impact on town, and would help mafia far more than it would town. Except essentially clearing them as town.

Now as for Dream Cop being a Mafia role... I don't know why you guys would think that.

Let's assume I am this "Mafia Dream Cop." Once D2 starts I check my ball cap to see if I'm in a dreamscape. Then I place my vote on Ayano Keiko. I then use my ability to find out who the dreamer is for DS1, and it turns out to be EVAN (AKA Domozilla). I then keep my vote on Keiko despite the rising suspicion on me and eventually, I decide to unvote, then vote Bok (who I originally read as Town). I get lynched and sent to the real world. N2 passes, and Bok is nightkilled. Everyone else enters DS2 in D3, I'm assuming. D3 passes, and Keiko gets lynched. Neither of these players are Dreamers. Finally, N3 comes around, and Domozilla (replaced by Bok) is nightkilled, sending everyone to the real world.

Do these actions really make sense for Mafia? Sure, me claiming I'm Dream Cop now after Domozilla died seems scummy, but if the Mafia knew who the Dreamer was, why would they waste a nightkill on a non-Dreamer townie and let Town get closer to DS3? That's what doesn't make sense to me. Mafia would have acted a lot sooner, perhaps even try raising suspicion on that Dreamer during the day to get them lynched.

I'll have a lot more to say after I do some rereading, but I thought I'd share my defense along with some other thoughts now before I head to bed.

That's exactly what a mafia member would do. Especially if you were lynched and nobody was coming down to a lower level to kill you. Town can't jump from DS1 to DS3, so why kill the DS1 dreamer when you can wait til the town is closer, get a few free NKs, then kill the dreamer at the end of DS2. It wastes the town's time and the town gets NO information from the lynches up to that point.

We're seeing that right now. Town has learned nothing since D1 in the real world. All we've seen is people get NK'd and we're honestly at the same point we were when you were lynched the first time.

I also don't agree with how quickly you're dismissing karu, Ayano, and Ragnarokio. I think there's still a good chance that at least one of these people is scum.

 

[Deleted member 14134]

@Ryuken Are you saying your role tells you who cop is or do you have to specifically investigate a certain person to find out?

why would they waste a nightkill on a non-Dreamer townie and let Town get closer to DS3?

It's the logical thing to do. Mafia picks off one person that isn't the dreamer the first night and then when everyone is in DS2 mafia picks off the person they know is the dreamer therefore sending everyone back to the real world. This way it takes a day longer to reach DS3 and the chances of town reaching it are significantly decreased.

 

[Deleted member 14134]

Don;t ninja my post doc

 

[Ryuken]

@Ryuken Are you saying your role tells you who cop is or do you have to specifically investigate a certain person to find out?

It just tells you who the Dreamer is. It's two-shot, and I used it when we entered DS1. I can only use it one morw time.

 

[Doc]

Don;t ninja my post doc

 

[Rubik]

Do these actions really make sense for Mafia? Sure, me claiming I'm Dream Cop now after Domozilla died seems scummy, but if the Mafia knew who the Dreamer was, why would they waste a nightkill on a non-Dreamer townie and let Town get closer to DS3? That's what doesn't make sense to me. Mafia would have acted a lot sooner, perhaps even try raising suspicion on that Dreamer during the day to get them lynched.

Ideally, I think mafia would want to wait as close to D3 as possible and then kill the dreamer then to ensure that it undoes as many dream layers as possible. If you have the choice to send everything back to level 0 on N2 or N3, N3 is better because it makes town's lynches useless for an extra day and means you're one layer less deep on N4.

So on that front, I'd say that your reasoning is a bit questionable.

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That said, I still don't think dream cop is a role that's more likely to be scum than town. It seems like a pretty standard soft investigative role.

Every dead player has had a role so far (as far as I can tell) so having a lot of mild abilities like this one seems pretty likely, regardless of alignment.

 

[Morbid Minish]

I role claim Dream Cop. Are you still not convinced.

I know basically everyone else has already said this, but I don't see Dream Cop being a town role either.

We also don't know if the bodyguard was himself targeted or was protecting another player

Hm, I think there might be a good possibility the BG died protecting someone. Unless mafia is just super scared of Bok (which I wouldn't blame them, he is a scary guy), it wouldn't have made sense to kill someone who had barely posted when the actives were starting to be pushed more. Unless of course, mafia knew Domo was the dreamer....wonder how that could've happened.

You seem to be claiming that you have the ability to check if someone is a dreamer or not, which sounds quite obsolete in my opinion since knowing who the dreamers are does town no good as they can claim it if it was ever necessary and it’s impossible to be passively fake claimed. The fact that you supposedly knew this all day two and did not say a word about hylia/domo being town pretty much seals your fate. As a matter of fact this sounds exactly like a role the mafia would have! Anyway I don’t believe it.

I don't really see why being a dream cop is a role town wouldn't have. It allows him to confirm players as town.

If Ryu flipped town we'd be able to know anyone he's seen dream is town as well.

I'm just gonna address both of these posts together. I agree with funnier here. Dreamer Cop is pretty useless to town, considering that Dreamer is a modifier and can be claimed at any time. So why would we need someone to Cop that just to tell us they're town if they can do it themselves. It would make much more sense for it to be a mafia role. I feel like Dreamer Cop could be like a variation of role cop which is usually mafia aligned. Since mafia having a role cop wouldn't be as beneficial this game due to some of the roles being unusual, it would make sense to have a cop to detect dreamers instead.

Do these actions really make sense for Mafia? Sure, me claiming I'm Dream Cop now after Domozilla died seems scummy, but if the Mafia knew who the Dreamer was, why would they waste a nightkill on a non-Dreamer townie and let Town get closer to DS3? That's what doesn't make sense to me. Mafia would have acted a lot sooner, perhaps even try raising suspicion on that Dreamer during the day to get them lynched.

I was basically going to say what Doc and Bok (heh, that rhymes) already said about it making since for mafia to wait to kill the dreamer. Plus, mafia couldn't really rely much on trying to raise suspicion on the Dreamer, since he was inactive and therefore didn't have any thing to push besides inactivity. And if he had been killed n2, we would've all been back to lynch you sooner than we were. So it wasn't beneficial at all for mafia to kill the Dreamer then.

Jesus Bok. Are you ever going to stay dead?

Sounds like someone has it out for Bok. And who has been targeted the past two nights? Arrest this man!

I am not positive, but there is a pretty good chance Rubik is scum. Really annoying I’m not sure but in case that clicks with anyone.

I'm actually starting to get a scum vibe from him from everything he's said today. And I'm guessing you have a reason you're saying this. I think there might be a good chance we're looking at a Ryu/Rubik team here. Rubik's suggestions seem like they're trying to buy mafia time and subtly protect Ryu. And he's the only one that thinks Dreamer Cop seems more like a town role than mafia.

Not to mention, both Ryu and Rubik came into this day seemingly more 'organized' than other days. It seems like they may have discussed their plan going into today in the scum chat the previous night, knowing that they were killing the dreamer and we would all be back on the same level.

 

[Ryuken]

I've read through D3, and intially, I was a bit confused as to why everyone was thinking they were still in DS1, but as funnier6 pointed out, the setting fluff hadn't changed from D2, which also took place in a desert. If this is true, that must mean someone used an ability that prevented Town from reaching DS2 (or a modifier- either way, something that would benefit Mafia way more than Town), which makes me even more confused about why you guys think I'm a scum-aligned role. Wouldn't the Mafia have taken advantage of this and let one more Day go by instead of night-killing the Dreamer the following night? I'm more inclined to believe the Mafia got lucky with their nightkill (or did it because Bok was replacing Domozilla, but that's purely speculation).

Also, I really don't like the sheer amount of inactivity that happened D3. On top of that, I don't like that you guys- ESPECIALLY because you thought you were still in DS1- decided to lynch an inactive player in a Dreamscape instead of discussing a plan of action to either do one of the 3 options I suggested or a different plan entirely. Where did your brains go, Town?

Anyway, here are my reads. Whoop dee doo...

@karu and @Ragnarokio - Neutral.
Post something, PLEASE. karu, you haven't posted since D1, and Rag, you haven't posted since D2. What's up with that?

Minish_Link - Town.
They have been very active and helpful this game, and I haven't seen them drop any flags that would normally hint at a scum role. I don't know what kind of role Minish is softing here (guessing it has something to do with funnier6 talking like a baby), but it doesn't matter atm since it's the frequency and content of their posts that convince me they're Town.

funnier6 - Neutral.
I'm still skeptical of them because of their playstyle.

I am not positive, but there is a pretty good chance Rubik is scum. Really annoying I’m not sure but in case that clicks with anyone.

I don't understand. Are you softing? Or are you just speaking from your gut again? I really don't like this kind of playstyle, anyhow...

Ayano/Bok - Neutral.
Don't know what to think of them yet because they've replaced players twice already. They still seem pretty deadset on getting me killed, which they've been from D2, but what's interesting this time is that they share the same sentiments I do about D3, which differs from what they previously thought D2.

You guys really should have had two people commit suicide and kill Ryuken yesterday. Uncle Bok won't always be here to tell you guys what to do.

Except that doesn't really seem viable. If we're sending people back then it will take extra days for everyone to reach ds3 and if mafia has the option between knocking people back a level and killing them then all they have to do is keep bumping one person back at a time to stop us from reaching ds3. Your plan seems like it would take too long and would just give the mafia more time to pick us off.

Tunneling, much?

Doc - Town.
They've posted their reasons for being inactive, and their vote on Storma D1 is the one thing on my mind that still puts them as Town.

Rubik - Town.
Still getting very strong Town vibes from them. It's clear that they have a lot of experience in Mafia, but more importantly, what puts them out of the radar is how their playstyle this game contrasts their playstyle in Shrek Mafia.

Agh, I really don't like how my reads came out. I don't feel very confident placing this vote, but considering what's happened, our best bet now is to try to get the Mafia in the real world.

Vote: Bok Chan Sama

Yes, they've been replacing inactive players and were Town when they died, but because of their differing thoughts about a plan of action and how they've consistently targeted me, this is what makes me vote for them.
- - - - -

I'm just gonna address both of these posts together. I agree with funnier here. Dreamer Cop is pretty useless to town, considering that Dreamer is a modifier and can be claimed at any time. So why would we need someone to Cop that just to tell us they're town if they can do it themselves. It would make much more sense for it to be a mafia role. I feel like Dreamer Cop could be like a variation of role cop which is usually mafia aligned. Since mafia having a role cop wouldn't be as beneficial this game due to some of the roles being unusual, it would make sense to have a cop to detect dreamers instead.

In my opinion, my role can be useful if for some reason the Dreamer refuses to suicide or speak up either due to being inactive or due to actually being scum, and I can just call them out.

Dreamers will be members of the town, unless the Dreaming mechanism is affected by outside forces.

I'm actually starting to get a scum vibe from him from everything he's said today. And I'm guessing you have a reason you're saying this. I think there might be a good chance we're looking at a Ryu/Rubik team here. Rubik's suggestions seem like they're trying to buy mafia time and subtly protect Ryu. And he's the only one that thinks Dreamer Cop seems more like a town role than mafia.

Not to mention, both Ryu and Rubik came into this day seemingly more 'organized' than other days. It seems like they may have discussed their plan going into today in the scum chat the previous night, knowing that they were killing the dreamer and we would all be back on the same level.

I can kind of guess based on funnier6's playstyle why they would suggest Rubik as scum, but I don't like your reasons for agreeing with funnier6. Just because Rubik voiced his own thoughts and doesn't agree with everyone else about my role being Mafia-aligned makes him scum? That sounds silly to me. Your assumptions about what Rubik and I are doing sound a bit far-fetched, especially the part about us planning in the scum chat. Can you elaborate on why you think our posts seem more "organized" than other days?
You also seem to be convinced funnier6 is softing something, which I personally don't think is the case. Then again, I can never tell what goes through their head.

 

[Morbid Minish]

I don't know what kind of role Minish is softing here (guessing it has something to do with funnier6 talking like a baby)

I'll just say it doesn't have to do with that. I don't really expect anyone to pick up on my role, but I've put some ideas out there about it.

Don't know what to think of them yet because they've replaced players twice already. They still seem pretty deadset on getting me killed, which they've been from D2, but what's interesting this time is that they share the same sentiments I do about D3, which differs from what they previously thought D2.

Tunneling, much?

Yes, they've been replacing inactive players and were Town when they died, but because of their differing thoughts about a plan of action and how they've consistently targeted me, this is what makes me vote for them.

How does Bok's opinions about d3 differ from they were on d2? Seems like both times he was saying it didn't seem feasible for town to try and make it to DS3 and that we should try to lynch people from the real world.

Also, it's a little funny you say he's tunneling when you've voted for him as two different roles now. His reasoning for still going after you makes sense, because we lynched you once so why wouldn't we stick with our previous suspicions? Especially when most of us don't think your claim clears you.

In my opinion, my role can be useful if for some reason the Dreamer refuses to suicide or speak up either due to being inactive or due to actually being scum, and I can just call them out.

It's more likely for Dreamer to be town though, and the role wouldn't really account for inactivity when it was made. It really does seem like a role cop type role to help mafia out. Sure it could potentially benefit town, but I see it benefiting mafia a lot more.

I can kind of guess based on funnier6's playstyle why they would suggest Rubik as scum, but I don't like your reasons for agreeing with funnier6. Just because Rubik voiced his own thoughts and doesn't agree with everyone else about my role being Mafia-aligned makes him scum? That sounds silly to me. Your assumptions about what Rubik and I are doing sound a bit far-fetched, especially the part about us planning in the scum chat. Can you elaborate on why you think our posts seem more "organized" than other days?
You also seem to be convinced funnier6 is softing something, which I personally don't think is the case. Then again, I can never tell what goes through their head.

Rubik having a differing opinion isn't the only reason. I wouldn't find that by itself scummy. It's the fact that that opinion is trying to make you look better (when I feel like you're scum), and that he's offering solutions that quite frankly seem like an attempt to buy mafia some extra time. We have suspicions, so why not lynch them today instead of trying to pressure someone into suiciding? If they're town then suiciding would be dumb, because they would know that they're town and that they shouldn't die. If they're scum, they're just not going to suicide, and we're going to waste another day, give mafia some extra time, and go into DS1 again, where we will have to once again lynch back to the real world and lynch again.

I think your posts seem more 'organized', because you came in the with the claim early on and Rubik wasn't as active day 2. But now he's suggesting all sorts of plans, which I feel like the two of you could have discussed in scum chat to try and push this day since you knew we'd all be back on the same level.

The way funnier posted his suspicion about Rubik being scum certainly seems like a way he would say it if he's trying to soft something. Saying that he's not positive and there's a good chance sounds a lot different than just a feeling/suspicion. So I'm pretty inclined to trust that funnier is softing right now.

I'm fine with either a Ryu or Rubik lynch today though. We know Ryu's role already, so we could chance Rubik in case he has a more powerful role.