Game Thread ExLight's Custom Role Mafia - ENDGAME [TOWN WINS]

[Laurentus]

Btw, will also be out basically all day today too. Helping my sister in another city move. So I'll try to get to stuff if I can/during the car ride.


I don't see what Numbers did as scummy. He was someone I didn't get to touch on in my original post, but before EOD I was null/possibly light scum lean on him. He didn't seem as schemey about the setup as I would expect from town Numbers and focused a lot on the whole KoD thing. But given recent happenings, I think I'm bumping him up to slight town read. I am not on board with lynching him tomorrow. And I think that his plan is a good one. Not to mention he says he has a source of income, so bidding high on an item like a cop shot forces scum's hand as well.

I think there are some posts of mine that some people quoted that I need to respond to sometime and will when I'm able to.

Someone (maybe DW?) mentioned KoD being more laid back/posting less this game than the last one on here. He also didn't post much in the last game I played with him (on Wintreath, the one mentioned where we lynched the host and it jumbled things up). I don't think his activity here is AI, because scum KoD is just as loud and argumentative as town KoD.


PK's plan of hoarding items is bad. I'm not even sure if you can use more than one item at a time, so hoarding them would allow a lot of good items to go to waste. But also, the idea of hoarding items seems scummy? If you announce that you're going to buy and hoard all the items you can, then scum can just wait til you have a bunch and then kill you, effectively wasting a bunch of items. Which makes me wonder if PK didn't think about that because they're scum and weren't worried about being nk'd.

I pretty much completely agree with this, I think.

 

[Laurentus]

Frankly I think openly discussing sales in the auction right now is very anti-town behaviour and I don't care to elaborate why.

 

[Morbid Minish]

How are you seeing "I'm going to waste a copshot on the host" as not scummy, but "I'm going to buy stuff as quick as I can to stop scum from getting it" as scummy?

Because of intent. For one, using a cop shot on the host when people are seriously proposing lynching them isn't awful. Flavor cop would be more useful but KoD has his own ideas for that. We don't know what lynching the host will do and any info we can find out about the outcome is beneficial when it could have serious consequences. Plus I trust that Numbers has thought about this. The only downside y'all can argue is that it won't out scum/clear a player when lynching the host would effectively be a waste of a lynch, yet you were pushing that. Plus we know what happens when we lynch town/Mafia. We don't know what happens when we lynch the host. Cop shots this early in the game are a shot in the dark basically. Low chance of finding scum. Sure we can verify one person as town if we don't hit scum, but then they'll just be a target of mafia soon enough.

Not to mention we may even have a normal cop in the game. Or at least someone with the ability to investigate. The lack of overlap by targeting the host is good.


Whereas PK hoarding everything doesn't help in any way. We don't know if PK is town, so saying that they're hoarding items to keep Mafia from getting them is either you giving info you shouldn't have about PK's alignment (making you Mafia), or you putting a ton of trust in PK for seemingly no reason. Town can get items just as easy as mafia by way of being online when they go up and mafia not being. Also, Mafia does have incentive to save money so that they can still possibly win if mafia loses. Which they already have a numbers disadvantage. PK also didn't seem to think about the idea of hoarding items making him a great target for Mafia to wait til he has a stockpile and then kill him, getting rid of a ton of useful items because he likely can't use more than one at the same time and we have 3 in a day/night cycle. The fact that PK didn't think of this means he either didn't really think his plan through a ton, or he knows he's not going to be targeted by Mafia.

 

[Paranoid King]

Safe to say Storm is probably a possible target tonight.

assuming storm isn't dead by morning, i'll consider any vote made against him an intent to kill him, and unless i feel there is strong town motive behind doing so i'll take it to be a scumtell

Storm is dying, which is sad. I hope he gets better, because then he can vote on himself a dozen times whenever he wants and dish out all that delicious, delicious candy because I like him.

I hate to say it, but tonight is probably the best night for Storm to die. Tonight is the night with the most positive actions available, and depending on how it works, it might also triple role or flavor cops, thought that's something @Storm would know better than me.

If Storm is not killed tonight, mafia can choose when storm dies. And unless it's set up strangely, mafia will have their kill until they all die, while the rest of us lose out on more actions every turn someone dies. It's in mafia's interest to keep storm alive as long as possible, and in town's interest to kill them quickly.

 

[SoulAdvent]

I'm not trying to make anyone look dumb, I'm just pointing out that I don't see the town motive behind what they did, and if they don't use the cop shot in a towny way, I'mma do my best to make sure there are consequences.

Are you okay with 15377's plan? Because it seems like they are literally wasting a cop shot. The only thing I can't figure out is why they decided to actually out that they were the one to bid, but perhaps mafia is aware of some sort of mechanic that could reveal who bought what.

"15377, you should do exactly what PK was going to do (use the cop shot on a majority vote). Anything less "

I think you are bossing him around so he uses it the exact way you want to, like if he does anything else it's just wrong when that's not necessarily true :u.

No I am not okay with 15377's plan, but it is his role and we have to reason with him instead of making ultimatums :/. I don't think I would even lynch him if he actually did check ExLight. He is revealing the info that he bought it so it's not like he is being secretive.

Clearly I thought you were mafia. In particular your read on me was >rand!wolf. "I like the posts. He makes the game less boring lol" is devoid of content while being pockety.

You started being more tryhard-y afterwards though so I figured you deserve a pass for now, but I have a mental note to keep an eye on you since even your tryhardy posts seem less dense than I expect from an average tryhard townie.

Yes, I can figure as much ^^;. That reads list wasn't very detailed I agree but I was doing my best trying to get everyone together and the discussion going with what energy I had. I don't understand what you mean by pockety?

Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "less dense than I expect". I am doing what I know and can with what I have.

 

[SoulAdvent]

PK is interesting. I've only played with them once, maybe twice before. The one time I remember for sure I definitely felt like they were more analytic than they feel this game. Could be because it's day one, but I dunno. I think their Mint vote was a bit opportunistic, but again there hasn't been a ton to go off of.

PK's literal last few seconds vote is very suspicious when I think about it more . He already said he didn't really agree with the Storm lynch, but then didn't vote anyone else to save him, he only voted to save himself. DawningWinds voting PK last second is also ugly, but he made his plans clear that he can win with Mafia if he can so it's not unexpected that he would make a dirty play like that.

 

[Paranoid King]

Because of intent. For one, using a cop shot on the host when people are seriously proposing lynching them isn't awful. Flavor cop would be more useful but KoD has his own ideas for that. We don't know what lynching the host will do and any info we can find out about the outcome is beneficial when it could have serious consequences.

That's why we just don't lynch them. What alignment could the host possibly have that would make that a good idea? I very much doubt they're mafia, and will anything change if we find out they're an Administrator or a Game Master? No. None of these questions are resolved.

The people who want Ex to die are just curious, and finding out Ex's faction won't fix that curiousity..

Plus I trust that Numbers has thought about this. The only downside y'all can argue is that it won't out scum/clear a player when lynching the host would effectively be a waste of a lynch, yet you were pushing that.

it would be a waste of a confirmed alignment, which is way more important. My plan would verify someone as town. Either me, if I scanned a mafia, or my target, if I didn't and was killed for it.

Plus we know what happens when we lynch town/Mafia. We don't know what happens when we lynch the host. Cop shots this early in the game are a shot in the dark basically. Low chance of finding scum. Sure we can verify one person as town if we don't hit scum, but then they'll just be a target of mafia soon enough.

In a 13-person game, I would guess that we have around 3 members of the mafia. The "low chance" is almost 25% to hit a mafia member. This is a great item. Confirmed town is great too, because we get all the info that comes from a person's death without killing a friendly. Again, scanning Ex doesn't do that.

Not to mention we may even have a normal cop in the game. Or at least someone with the ability to investigate. The lack of overlap by targeting the host is good.

Publicly stating who will be scanned is a good idea, but that's true no matter who is targeted. And acting as though we might have an alignment cop who might be on our team seems like a bad idea to me.

Whereas PK hoarding everything doesn't help in any way. We don't know if PK is town, so saying that they're hoarding items to keep Mafia from getting them is either you giving info you shouldn't have about PK's alignment (making you Mafia), or you putting a ton of trust in PK for seemingly no reason. Town can get items just as easy as mafia by way of being online when they go up and mafia not being.

Yep, this is all true. Hoarding items isn't super useful to anyone, and it's NAI. No disagreements here.

Also, Mafia does have incentive to save money so that they can still possibly win if mafia loses. Which they already have a numbers disadvantage.

This also applies to town, which has an information disadvantage. but Dawn will probably win that anyways, so I don't think it's relevant.

PK also didn't seem to think about the idea of hoarding items making him a great target for Mafia to wait til he has a stockpile and then kill him, getting rid of a ton of useful items because he likely can't use more than one at the same time and we have 3 in a day/night cycle. The fact that PK didn't think of this means he either didn't really think his plan through a ton, or he knows he's not going to be targeted by Mafia.

Mafia can generally make more use out of items than town because they know they won't hit their teammates. So the point of hoarding would be to keep the items out of mafia hands more so than to use it. Being killed would suck, but they still can't use the items. So hoarding things would just deny them that use, while keeping it transparent who has items.

 

[SoulAdvent]

Hiiiiiii, I'm Socky, your dungeon master and your best friend! I'm a bit late to the party, but glad everyone made it to night 1!

Storm is dying, which is sad. I hope he gets better, because then he can vote on himself a dozen times whenever he wants and dish out all that delicious, delicious candy because I like him.

And the auction is heating up. 15377 is making a terrible choice to outbid Paranoid King for the role cop, especially when a flavor cop would do a much better job. That feels like something the mafia would do.

That's all for now. Later,

Socky.

Sorry I don't understand what's this? Is this like an invisible player?

Frankly I think openly discussing sales in the auction right now is very anti-town behaviour and I don't care to elaborate why.

If I buy anthing I would keep it secret, but there may be some benefit to make it open I guess.

 

[Paranoid King]

Sorry I don't understand what's this? Is this like an invisible player?

Based on the name, I'd guess it's another account the puppeteer can post from. Zinger did something similar in spider-man mafia 3.

 

[SoulAdvent]

Based on the name, I'd guess it's another account the puppeteer can post from. Zinger did something similar in spider-man mafia 3.

Ohhh ok i understand…

It is a Mafia or Town role?

I already know who it is, I think…

 

[Ragnarokio]

If 15377 invests Ex, I think we should flip 15377. This is extremely anti-town IMO.

15377, you should do exactly what PK was going to do (use the cop shot on a majority vote). Anything less and I'm probably going to push you to be flipped, because your decision to take the cop shot from PK is extremely questionable and I don't see the town motive.

I think targeting the mod is probably a waste (if its even legal) but i recognize that not everyone sees the game the same way I do. I don't think it makes any sense from a scum perspective to buy the cop, announce that you've bought it, and then announce that you're going to waste it. Scum numbers gains nothing from that. He could announce that he bought it and then that he used it on a player (announcing whatever check he felt like), or even just keep silent that he bought it. The only reason i can imagine numbers claiming he was going to use it on ex is because he genuinely felt it was the best strategy.

….That’s nice….

Don’t think anyone would dare vote him after that claim but you’re not exactly cleared so what’s the point of this? Why even announce it? Wouldn’t it have been more effective to let people slip up and then attack them?

because i didn't want people voting storm, having him die, and then claiming they didn't realize it would kill them to avoid culpability.

 

[DawningWinds]

DawningWinds voting PK last second is also ugly, but he made his plans clear that he can win with Mafia if he can so it's not unexpected that he would make a dirty play like that.

First it was "crazy, but smart" and now its "ugly"? Can you please explain why you shifted your stance on that play?

I did indicate prior to that that I'd prefer a PK lynch over a Storm lynch. So Numbers voting PK and making that an actual option is why I moved; its not my fault Numbers' PK vote happened so closed to the EoD.

His power, his responsibility :/.

You can’t just boss people around about how they use the roles they get. Of course he could be lying and you have every right to vote him for how he uses it, but you could at least discuss it with him instead of making him look like dumb because he doesn’t do what you exactly want him to do!! Offer suggestions, yes, but not this big drama show .

If we don't trust Numbers (which I don't), having the whole game input on telling them to use their role on a specific person is the best way to force them to help town. They lie about who they target? Well there's a tracker for sale tomorrow that could well catch them, might not wanna do that (relatedly, I don't think whoever buys the tracker tomorrow should out until they've used it; WIFOM Numbers and anyone else who might be planning to lie about where they go into telling the truth and not give Mafia as much chance to use any of their presumably tripled nightkills on the tracker buyer). They lie about their results? If we mislynch as a result of it, that'll out them as scum; if they lie about their teammate being town it'll be harder to prove, but a town result from someone people don't really trust should generally be taken to not indicate much unless we get proof of Numbers' towniness later, at which point they stop being someone we don't trust so...

 

[DawningWinds]

Ohhh ok i understand…

It is a Mafia or Town role?

I already know who it is, I think…

Roles in this game may not be alignment indicative, the puppeteer could easily be either.

 

[Mint Elv]

because i didn't want people voting storm, having him die, and then claiming they didn't realize it would kill them to avoid culpability.

Do you think people would let them slip by with that excuse?

@DawningWinds Honestly the same could be said for PK. Sure PK came out and announced it but if he’s mafia then he could have done that for town cred not believing anyone could outbid him. Mafia would know about the combing money rule, but what if they thought it pertained to just them? Then they wouldn’t expect anyone to outbid them.

PK was under a lot of heat so what’s to say he didn’t concoct the plan to get heat off of him. We can tell him to target whoever and depending on the result he can choose to say what he wants. If we choose mafia and he’s mafia he could say they’re town.

If they’re and inde then he probably wouldn’t lie and same with town since lying about town would lead to the cost of a mafia, and outing indeps benefits both mafia and town.

Honestly it was probably too early for the cop check since reads aren’t the best due to one day phase only. No one can truly be said to be trusted right now with the first night phase not even over.

Obviously Numbers is the same case as PK as in we can’t trust checks fully, but I will say we can believe their check on ExLight being that one is in everyone’s interest, similar to checks on indeps.

 

[Jinjo]

At first when I saw Storm surviving the lynch I thought he was an sk since I'm more used to seeing an sk surviving the lynch. Numbers investing ExLight is a stab in the dark and I would prefer the 1 shot cop is used on a player.