Emperor of the Dark Realm?

[DeletedUser9]

I was playing Wind Waker the other day, and something struck me as odd.

When you complete the Forsaken Fortress the first time and are taken to Windfall Island, the King of the Red Lions tells you all about Ganon. I'm sure you remember this.

But I noticed something odd I never noticed before. The King of the Red Lions states that Ganon was the "Emperor of the Dark Realm." What the hell does that mean?

The only thing I can think of is the Dark World. Is it possible that when Ganondorf was sealed in the Sacred Realm at the end of OoT, that it became the Dark World (or already was from his wish,) and that set the stage for A Link to the Past? And then Wind Waker came after?

It might not be that exactly... but what do you think it means? And what does this mean for traditional timeline theories?

(And I know I'm not usually one to discuss the timeline, but this struck me as really strange.)

 

[ChargewithSword]

Ganondorf had basically poisoned the Sacred Realm and turned it into the Dark World. He had plenty of free time to conquer it at the same time.

Also Alttp inbetween OOT or WW would be impossible considering that ToG Link killed Ganon and the Sacred Realm had been purified.

 

[DeletedUser9]

Ganondorf had basically poisoned the Sacred Realm and turned it into the Dark World. He had plenty of free time to conquer it at the same time.

To what I understand, how it worked is if the person who made a wish with the Triforce was evil, the Sacred Realm would turn into the Dark World...

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I'm pretty sure I'm not.

 

[basement24]

I think it was stated in ALttP that Ganondorf was able to make it to the Golden Land, and made a wish on the Triforce for it to be turned into the Dark World. I don't think if any evil person had simply touched the Triforce, this would have happened, but it had to be that evil person's direct wish for it to happen.

 

[ChargewithSword]

Well then I would have to say that
A) The developers screwed up the consitancy.

Ganondorf had basically taken over the Sacred Realm with his own power.

 

[DeletedUser9]

Well, anyway, the point of this thread isn't how Ganon became the ruler of the Sacred Realm/Dark World, it's what this means timeline-wise, or if it means anything at all.

 

[ChargewithSword]

I believe that this fact has no relevance to the timeline whatso ever. They just state how Ganondorf took over the Sacred Realm.

 

[Skull_Kid]

I think that he turned the Sacred Realm into the Dark World in both timelines(adult and Child), the differences are that in the Adult timeline he still retained his Ganondorf form, and in the Child timeline, he had to come back as a Demon(in ALttP), because his human body was destroyed in TP. What I think is that he underestimated the power of good and never thought of drawing Link to the Dark World during the TP events

 

[sign of table]

It's referring to OoT. In OoT Sheik says that the SR turned into a Makai. Which means Demon World or World controlled by a demon. I assume it means the latter happened.

 

[MrMosley]

From what I understand, the events that are talked about at the beginning of ALttP are not the same events which took place in OoT.

In ALttP, the manual talks about Ganondorf getting into the Sacred Realm and wishing upon the Triforce. His wish was to rule the Sacred Realm apparently, so it turned into the Dark World, and because of the nature of Ganondorf, it turned him into the beast known as Ganon.

In OoT, I don't know what Sheik says in Japanese... What I do know is that this game's events cannot be the same ones spoken about in ALttP, or else the entire story from ALttP would have been re-written. Ocarina of Time shows Ganondorf's first attempted attack on Hyrule, as well as the first time he touches the Triforce. The Sages do not seal him within the Sacred Realm upon him touching the Triforce, as they did in ALttP's backstory. Ganondorf was not sealed in any realm until the very end of the game, and it was called the Evil Realm.

--EDIT--
And one more thing that should be obvious to all theorists is the fact that the split timeline keeps any events from either side from ever happening on the other. If you were to say that the events spoken about in the backstory of ALttP were the events of OoT, then you would be saying that ALttP was talking about something that occured on the Adult Timeline, as Ganondorf did not gain access to the Sacred Realm until AFTER Link pulled the Master Sword out. But in the Child Timeline, which is the timeline that most theorists place ALttP in, Link never pulled the Master Sword out. Ganondorf did end up with the Triforce of Power, but if you pay attention to Twilight Princess, it is described as a "divine prank" by which he got his Triforce piece.

So what it all boils down to, is the Sages sealing Ganondorf in OoT happend in the AT. ALttP happens as a continuation of the CT.

 

[Skull_Kid]

From what I understand, the events that are talked about at the beginning of ALttP are not the same events which took place in OoT.

In ALttP, the manual talks about Ganondorf getting into the Sacred Realm and wishing upon the Triforce. His wish was to rule the Sacred Realm apparently, so it turned into the Dark World, and because of the nature of Ganondorf, it turned him into the beast known as Ganon.

In OoT, I don't know what Sheik says in Japanese... What I do know is that this game's events cannot be the same ones spoken about in ALttP, or else the entire story from ALttP would have been re-written. Ocarina of Time shows Ganondorf's first attempted attack on Hyrule, as well as the first time he touches the Triforce. The Sages do not seal him within the Sacred Realm upon him touching the Triforce, as they did in ALttP's backstory. Ganondorf was not sealed in any realm until the very end of the game, and it was called the Evil Realm.

And that is one fact that most theorists seem to overlook.
The Sacred Realm and the Evil realm are NOT by any means the same.
In this case, I think that what Sheik says is the same as in the US and Eur versions, if I am not mistaken.
My best shot theory is that the pre-ALttp events are something that occurs between TP and FSA, or maybe after the body of Ganondorf being killed, they somehow exiled it in the Sacred Realm, to prevent Cultists(such as Twin Rova) from reviving him

 

[Smertios]

From what I understand, the events that are talked about at the beginning of ALttP are not the same events which took place in OoT.

In ALttP, the manual talks about Ganondorf getting into the Sacred Realm and wishing upon the Triforce. His wish was to rule the Sacred Realm apparently, so it turned into the Dark World, and because of the nature of Ganondorf, it turned him into the beast known as Ganon.

In OoT, I don't know what Sheik says in Japanese... What I do know is that this game's events cannot be the same ones spoken about in ALttP, or else the entire story from ALttP would have been re-written. Ocarina of Time shows Ganondorf's first attempted attack on Hyrule, as well as the first time he touches the Triforce. The Sages do not seal him within the Sacred Realm upon him touching the Triforce, as they did in ALttP's backstory. Ganondorf was not sealed in any realm until the very end of the game, and it was called the Evil Realm.

--EDIT--
And one more thing that should be obvious to all theorists is the fact that the split timeline keeps any events from either side from ever happening on the other. If you were to say that the events spoken about in the backstory of ALttP were the events of OoT, then you would be saying that ALttP was talking about something that occured on the Adult Timeline, as Ganondorf did not gain access to the Sacred Realm until AFTER Link pulled the Master Sword out. But in the Child Timeline, which is the timeline that most theorists place ALttP in, Link never pulled the Master Sword out. Ganondorf did end up with the Triforce of Power, but if you pay attention to Twilight Princess, it is described as a "divine prank" by which he got his Triforce piece.

So what it all boils down to, is the Sages sealing Ganondorf in OoT happend in the AT. ALttP happens as a continuation of the CT.

I'm sorry to say but OoT was confirmed to be the SW told in LttP by two members of the development team, one of which was the head story writer of the game (OoT):

Takizawa: In past, when you thought about Ganon in Zelda, he was a pig. This time, when were collaborating ideas, we thought "He wouldn't be a pig, would he?" There were even some who thought "I don't want him to be a pig." But I still thought that at least the end should have Ganon as a pig. The whole time I wanted to know what Mr. Miyamoto thought, but in the end, I realized that Mr. Miyamoto didn't have an opinion on the matter, so I decided to do it the way I wanted.
This time, the story really wasn't an original. We were dealing with the "The Imprisoning War of the Seven Sages" from the SNES edition Zelda. To give that game a little "secret" recognition, I thought that keeping the "pigness" in Ganon would be the correct course. So we made him a beast "with the feeling of a pig."

Osawa: Though in this game Zelda is now included in the Seven Sages, the other six have the names of the town names from the Disk System edition "The Adventure of Link."
In the SNES edition game, the story "Long ago, there was a war called the Imprisoning War" was passed along. A name in the Imprisoning War era is the name of a Town later. They were like "pseudo-secrets." We wanted to throw these out through the entirety of the game. That thing from then is now this.
Tarin and Marin, a father and girl who appeared in "Link's Awakening" (G were used as the base for a different parent and child who comes out in this game. These are the things that when they are seen by a person who has played Zelda before they will understand. If people begin to think "Do you think that this could be that thing from then?" then I will be happy.​

This proves not only that LttP BS is the SW and that LttP has to come in the AT, but also that LoZ/AoL have to, as well...

 

[MrMosley]

I'm sorry to say but OoT was confirmed to be the SW told in LttP by two members of the development team, one of which was the head story writer of the game (OoT):

Takizawa: In past, when you thought about Ganon in Zelda, he was a pig. This time, when were collaborating ideas, we thought "He wouldn't be a pig, would he?" There were even some who thought "I don't want him to be a pig." But I still thought that at least the end should have Ganon as a pig. The whole time I wanted to know what Mr. Miyamoto thought, but in the end, I realized that Mr. Miyamoto didn't have an opinion on the matter, so I decided to do it the way I wanted.
This time, the story really wasn't an original. We were dealing with the "The Imprisoning War of the Seven Sages" from the SNES edition Zelda. To give that game a little "secret" recognition, I thought that keeping the "pigness" in Ganon would be the correct course. So we made him a beast "with the feeling of a pig."

Osawa: Though in this game Zelda is now included in the Seven Sages, the other six have the names of the town names from the Disk System edition "The Adventure of Link."
In the SNES edition game, the story "Long ago, there was a war called the Imprisoning War" was passed along. A name in the Imprisoning War era is the name of a Town later. They were like "pseudo-secrets." We wanted to throw these out through the entirety of the game. That thing from then is now this.
Tarin and Marin, a father and girl who appeared in "Link's Awakening" (G were used as the base for a different parent and child who comes out in this game. These are the things that when they are seen by a person who has played Zelda before they will understand. If people begin to think "Do you think that this could be that thing from then?" then I will be happy.​

This proves not only that LttP BS is the SW and that LttP has to come in the AT, but also that LoZ/AoL have to, as well...

That still makes absolutely no sense. Why would they want to seal him in the place that they were trying to keep him out of? Even if we were to say he was sealed in the Sacred Realm at the end, that is not the point at which Ganondorf acquired the Triforce. He acquired it whenever Link pulled the Master Sword out.

In order for that to make any bit of sense, you would have to say that ALttP takes place in between OoT and WW. You would have to say that after the sages sealed Ganondorf in the "Sacred Realm", that he somehow obtained the whole Triforce (impossible), transformed the Sacred Realm into the Dark World, and had another hero come in and defeat him. Which is also impossible, considering the BS of WW says that after Ganondorf was sealed, absolutely nothing happend until he escaped, which is when the flood occured. And ALttP says the Ganondorf (man) got into the Sacred Realm and acquired the Triforce, which at that very point, he was sealed. Not that he got it, got out of the SR, ran around wild for seven years taking over Hyrule, then was placed back in so that somehow an entire generation could happen, a new Link could come beat him up, and the story of WW be retconned.

So I don't agree with these quotes, whether or not they came from anyone. I am all for going with what the developers say, but regardless of if Ganondorf if a pig or a man or whatever, saying that OoT is the BS of ALttP contradicts the events of not only ALttP itself, but WW as well.

 

[Erimgard]

A: A SoM said, Sheik/Zelda states then when Ganondorf entered the Sacred Realm, he became a "Demon King" and the Sacred Realm became a "Demon World". NoA translates this as King of Evil and world of evil.

The same word, makai/demon world, is what's being used here in WW. Ganon became the ruler of the corrupted Sacred Realm.

Now, whether or not OoT is the Seal War is debatable. As Smertios said, it was confirmed in 1998, but its possible that the directors have changed their minds since then. That quote was before the release of WW and TP after all.

 

[sign of table]

This proves not only that LttP BS is the SW and that LttP has to come in the AT, but also that LoZ/AoL have to, as well...

I think you forgot to mention that those quotes are only valid up until 2002, when TWW was released. After that it's no more than theory.