Canon so terrible you pretended it never happened
- Thread starter Djinn
- Start date
Ominethious
Aku
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2015
- Gender
- An Attack Roflcopter
Hey now. Some of the New 52 is good.
CrimsonCavalier
Fuzzy Pickles
Skyrim. Really, going against a lot of pre-established lore, doing away with certain historical things to make the gameplay more "accessible". Elder Scrolls Online, as far as I'm concerned, doesn't exist. It isn't a game. I'll cover my ears and just go "la la la la" until it goes away. Oblivion did this too, to an extent, but I was able to partially forgive them. With Skyrim, nope. They went too far.
Anything after Resident Evil 3. No more zombies, you say? OKAY! Let's just forget everything from Zero-3:Nemesis. Forget the fact that the games were terrible. But to go away from the original story, which, for a video game, was actually pretty engrossing, to just ... I dunno. Ugh. And the trailer for the new one looks even worse.
Star Wars. I liked the movie, the new one, but I absolutely can't get behind that everything we knew and loved about the series was erased. None of it really mattered/happened. Dozens of dozens of books, just ... poof. Didn't happen. I thought they did a piss-poor job of explaining a lot of the plot, or just downright didn't explain it, at all. At least they kept the Clone Wars series and the games as Canon, even though a lot of the games didn't really follow the established lore either.
Anything after Resident Evil 3. No more zombies, you say? OKAY! Let's just forget everything from Zero-3:Nemesis. Forget the fact that the games were terrible. But to go away from the original story, which, for a video game, was actually pretty engrossing, to just ... I dunno. Ugh. And the trailer for the new one looks even worse.
Star Wars. I liked the movie, the new one, but I absolutely can't get behind that everything we knew and loved about the series was erased. None of it really mattered/happened. Dozens of dozens of books, just ... poof. Didn't happen. I thought they did a piss-poor job of explaining a lot of the plot, or just downright didn't explain it, at all. At least they kept the Clone Wars series and the games as Canon, even though a lot of the games didn't really follow the established lore either.
- Joined
- Nov 29, 2011
Batwoman was decent until the creative team quit because DC were being too... Difficult.
DekuNut
I play my drum for you
Hyrule Historia is going on my list 
Ominethious
Aku
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2015
- Gender
- An Attack Roflcopter
DekuNut
I play my drum for you
Batwoman is not Batgirl.
Batgirl is Comissioner Gordon's daughter.
Batwoman is Bruce Wayne's lesbian cousin.
Ominethious
Aku
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2015
- Gender
- An Attack Roflcopter
Cfrock
Keep it strong
Because — and it pains me to say this about a Harry Potter story — it's bad. It's bad. Like, I heard people saying it's bad, but I figured it can't be bad. And then I read it. And it is bad. Excuse me while I go curl up under the stairs and cry the pain away.
A few people have already mentioned this, but The Cursed Child contradicts too much of the canon for it to not feel awkward. As I read it I was doing mental gymnastics to accommodate what was going on, trying to reconcile the characters and action with what happened in the books. I'm going to use this space as pseudo-therapy and vent, but I'll put it all in spoilers so I don't ruin it for anyone yet to read it (and also to not clog the thread with a long post).
Needless to say, a lot of people are simply deciding that they won't accept it as canon. I feel more or less the same way. However, JK stated quite flatly that it is. So. Yeah. Gutted.
1. Ron is a goofball. He's pure comic relief and this is achieved by making him an emasculated idiot. I say emasculated because he is so whipped. Hermione wears the pants in the relationship. Fine. But Ron was never a dog following her around trying to make her happy with cheesy jokes and generally just being there in the background. He was assertive. He was proactive. She admired that about him. The Ron of The Cursed Child is not the Ron of the novels and it is almost painful to see him relegated to such a minor role. As for the idiot part, there's a scene in which he gets his wand out and holds it the wrong way. The only time he ever had trouble with his wand in the novels was when the Whomping Willow broke it.
2. Voldemort has a daughter. If there's anything that makes The Cursed Child come across as glorified fanfiction this is it. This contradicts established canon and Voldemort's character. First, Voldemort's weakness is his total inability to love. He never has friends, he never trusts anybody. Voldemort believes that other people are completely other to him, that everyone is expendable. The idea that this guy would sleep with Bellatrix just doesn't fit. If we assume he slept with her because he cared about her then we hit a wall because his entire character is defined by his inability to feel anything other than hatred for others. He would never have slept with her because he is not capable of feeling anything like love, lust, or even empathy towards another person. If we assume he slept with her just to create an heir, that there was no emotion in the act whatsoever, we also hit a wall because Voldemort has no reason to believe he could be defeated until he hears about the horcrux being stolen from Gringotts. That doesn't give him enough time to get Bellatrix pregnant. The idea of not conquering the world himself also wouldn't occur to him as eternal life is his ultimate goal. Leaving a legacy for his child to secure wouldn't enter his mind.
Second, if Delphini was born just before the Battle of Hogwarts then Bellatrix Lestrange would have been pregnant throughout Deathly Hallows. This simply isn't the case. I find it hard to believe no one would talk about such a thing at any point. Bellatrix pregnant with Voldemort's baby would have indulged in such an honour for everything she was worth. Rubbing her belly, waxing lyrical about how the Dark Lord had chosen her, proving how pure her blood was. Nothing like that is going on because Bellatrix wasn't pregnant. Her giving birth simply doesn't fit the established canon. Of course, retcons are fairly common in fiction, but the reason why something like this is an issue is because if you go back to read Deathly Hallows you will be aware of how it doesn't fit, how it is now wrong. And it will make you enjoy the story less.
3. The Fidelius Charm. In the last Act of the play, Albus and Scorpius go back to 1981 and see Lily and James with an infant Harry. This goes against established canon because they were protected by the Fidelius Charm, a piece of magic that makes something completely invisible and undetectable to everybody that has not been told the secret. This would make it impossible for Albus, Scorpius, and Delphini to find the Potters. And yet. It's possible that they could see through the Charm because they all knew that Harry and his parents lived in Godric's Hollow, but it's unlikely that they knew the exact address (which was required for Harry to see Grimmauld Place in Order of the Phoenix) and the Charm had been inactive for about 30 years when they were told, making it highly unlikely, if not outright impossible, for them to see through it.
4. Snape is alive in one of the alternate futures. Albus and Scorpius change the past and when they return to the future Scorpius finds himself in a world where Voldemort killed Harry and took over the world. Snape is still alive in this future. The problem is that Snape would have died no matter what because he was killed so Voldemort could become master of the Elder Wand. Harry dying in his duel with Voldemort happened after Snape was killed, meaning that Snape would still definitely be dead regardless of Voldemort killing Harry. And yet.
5. Loads of little things. Nit-picky stuff like Harry still having the Marauder's Map despite JK saying that his eldest son stole it from him. Professor McGonagall being the headmistress despite JK telling us she wasn't. Harry, Ron, and Hermione not realising someone was making Polyjuice Potion when told of what ingredients had been stolen from the Hogwarts storeroom. The gang also talking about using Polyjuice Potion on a whim as though they forgot it takes a month to brew.
2. Voldemort has a daughter. If there's anything that makes The Cursed Child come across as glorified fanfiction this is it. This contradicts established canon and Voldemort's character. First, Voldemort's weakness is his total inability to love. He never has friends, he never trusts anybody. Voldemort believes that other people are completely other to him, that everyone is expendable. The idea that this guy would sleep with Bellatrix just doesn't fit. If we assume he slept with her because he cared about her then we hit a wall because his entire character is defined by his inability to feel anything other than hatred for others. He would never have slept with her because he is not capable of feeling anything like love, lust, or even empathy towards another person. If we assume he slept with her just to create an heir, that there was no emotion in the act whatsoever, we also hit a wall because Voldemort has no reason to believe he could be defeated until he hears about the horcrux being stolen from Gringotts. That doesn't give him enough time to get Bellatrix pregnant. The idea of not conquering the world himself also wouldn't occur to him as eternal life is his ultimate goal. Leaving a legacy for his child to secure wouldn't enter his mind.
Second, if Delphini was born just before the Battle of Hogwarts then Bellatrix Lestrange would have been pregnant throughout Deathly Hallows. This simply isn't the case. I find it hard to believe no one would talk about such a thing at any point. Bellatrix pregnant with Voldemort's baby would have indulged in such an honour for everything she was worth. Rubbing her belly, waxing lyrical about how the Dark Lord had chosen her, proving how pure her blood was. Nothing like that is going on because Bellatrix wasn't pregnant. Her giving birth simply doesn't fit the established canon. Of course, retcons are fairly common in fiction, but the reason why something like this is an issue is because if you go back to read Deathly Hallows you will be aware of how it doesn't fit, how it is now wrong. And it will make you enjoy the story less.
3. The Fidelius Charm. In the last Act of the play, Albus and Scorpius go back to 1981 and see Lily and James with an infant Harry. This goes against established canon because they were protected by the Fidelius Charm, a piece of magic that makes something completely invisible and undetectable to everybody that has not been told the secret. This would make it impossible for Albus, Scorpius, and Delphini to find the Potters. And yet. It's possible that they could see through the Charm because they all knew that Harry and his parents lived in Godric's Hollow, but it's unlikely that they knew the exact address (which was required for Harry to see Grimmauld Place in Order of the Phoenix) and the Charm had been inactive for about 30 years when they were told, making it highly unlikely, if not outright impossible, for them to see through it.
4. Snape is alive in one of the alternate futures. Albus and Scorpius change the past and when they return to the future Scorpius finds himself in a world where Voldemort killed Harry and took over the world. Snape is still alive in this future. The problem is that Snape would have died no matter what because he was killed so Voldemort could become master of the Elder Wand. Harry dying in his duel with Voldemort happened after Snape was killed, meaning that Snape would still definitely be dead regardless of Voldemort killing Harry. And yet.
5. Loads of little things. Nit-picky stuff like Harry still having the Marauder's Map despite JK saying that his eldest son stole it from him. Professor McGonagall being the headmistress despite JK telling us she wasn't. Harry, Ron, and Hermione not realising someone was making Polyjuice Potion when told of what ingredients had been stolen from the Hogwarts storeroom. The gang also talking about using Polyjuice Potion on a whim as though they forgot it takes a month to brew.
Beauts
Rock and roll will never die
- That 70s Show: Season 8 didn't happen according to me or anyone else who actually liked the show. Jackie and Hyde should have been endgame, his marrying a stripper was out of the blue and Jackie X Fez only has one word to describe it, which is as an abomination.
- The Vampire Diaries: Matt and Katherine's daughter, gross. Hayley selling the hybirds off to that weird professor dude. Stefan sleeping with Katherine in season 6, wtf was that? Killing Sheriff Forbes off, how very dare they, can not at least one character have a living goddamn parent? And most importantly, it's been hard to believe anything that happens after Kai put that spell on Elena and Bonnie. Sorry but the whole show is about Elena and it's weird without her.
- Harry Potter: The killing off of Fred. And Dobby. NOT TO MENTION SIRIUS.
- Song of Ice and Fire/Game of Thrones (maybe? I haven't watched the show just read the books): Anything weird and creepy between Sansa and Littlefinger. Also, that weird son of Lisa- I just like to pretend he doesn't exist because bleugh.
- Abhorsen: The Disreputable Dog leaving :'(
- Legend of Zelda: The magical moving map of Hyrule. I'm not saying don't add or alter at all but you can't justify moving **** across the country then pretending it was there all along
- The Princess Diaries (books): Mia's entire relationship with JP. I'm glad she stopped being friends with Lilly though. Lana > Lilly.
- Twilight Breaking Dawn: Apart from hating the way the books are written, I wish we could especially delete the final in the series, especially the bit where she has a baby with a vampire with no plausible explanation and then that kid gets imprinted on by Jacob. This entire book was overkill. The entire series would have been passable if it ended after New Moon.
- The Time Travellers Wife (book): Henry dying. I will never forgive the author for this. I bawled my eyes out like twelve hundred times in this book but none more so than when Henry realised he was going to die. **** you, Audrey Niffenegger. He should have lived to see Alba grow up and have his condition controlled if not cured. *****.
I like to pretend Paper Mario Sticker Star and the upcoming Paper Mario Color Splash never happened. They completely lose what's interesting about the series, contradict it quite a bit (it's far more 'paper' themed in these games than it was in the first two) and wreck Bowser's characterisation in general.
Maybe also Mario & Luigi Paper Jam too. Bowser suddenly goes from a guy who wants to save the paper world to take it over to one who (the minute he enters the 'real world' and teams up with his counterpart) plans to burn it to cinders with the Mario bros inside. And then seemingly wants to kill Princess Peach after Neo Bowser Castle takes off. Seems jarring for his characterisation if you ask me.
Maybe also Mario & Luigi Paper Jam too. Bowser suddenly goes from a guy who wants to save the paper world to take it over to one who (the minute he enters the 'real world' and teams up with his counterpart) plans to burn it to cinders with the Mario bros inside. And then seemingly wants to kill Princess Peach after Neo Bowser Castle takes off. Seems jarring for his characterisation if you ask me.
Ambient Nomad
Home Starmy
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2016
- Location
- Michigan
I try not to get too caught up when a story doesn't match my expectations. For example, I still really love Lost in spite of the weak as hell final season and pretty terrible ending. But there's one thing that I just can't get over...
Yeah. That ending of Mass Effect 3. Even with the expanded ending DLC. It's just... So, so bad. They set up of the games was such that if you played like I did, you were very personally involved in your Commander Shepard's journey. But to end the way it did with the three colored magic buttons, and the serious lack of resolution that followed.... I get depressed just thinking about it.
Yeah. That ending of Mass Effect 3. Even with the expanded ending DLC. It's just... So, so bad. They set up of the games was such that if you played like I did, you were very personally involved in your Commander Shepard's journey. But to end the way it did with the three colored magic buttons, and the serious lack of resolution that followed.... I get depressed just thinking about it.
Fun fact: The reason Paper Mario has been going down hill is because some of the head creators are "Having trouble finding more paper themed ideas and mechanics, and if you want a Paper Mario type game, just go play the Mario and Luigi series".
I don't think they understand what makes Paper Mario great...
Castle
Ch!ld0fV!si0n
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2012
- Location
- Crisis? What Crisis?
- Gender
- Pan-decepticon-transdeliberate-selfidentifying-sodiumbased-extraexistential-temporal anomaly
Myst aka the D'ni-verse canon didn't get "bad" but it did retcon the crap out of previous games for the sake of accommodating the failed MMO spinoff Uru. The neat thing about the original games is that your presence was seamless. That is to say, you weren't a character in the world you were there. The fourth wall didn't exist. Now Uru comes along and says that happened a century ago to someone else. Uru's story was also suspect in some places. The Bahro came out of nowhere in the established fiction and really derailed stuff. Then of course the main NPC protagonist had in universe powers that literally broke established rules, which was supposed to make for an intriguing plot device, but I doubt it would have made for a compelling story even if the MMO hadn't gone tits up.
God, I am so sorry I did not see this until now. I'm really sorry, I wasn't ignoring you on purpose.
Did he actually die? The way I remember it his Mando Armour saved him the first time, the second time he was cloned, and the third time he actually died. Although, I grant you, the EU is a mess and has holes. But, as I argued it is much richer. Which I think it is still. To be fair, all it has to beat is a rewashed borrowed ladder progressive new hope. So even if your three death count is accurate, I'd take three deaths to same Sarlak as better than untrained force user beats Sith Apprentice of many years because belief.
In my opinion, the failure that is the prequels can be attributed to the following factors:
-The new and up and coming tech. They didn't use real special effects nearly enough and they were in love with cgi.
-They had the problem I call the "everything is an alien or weird problem". If you look at the originals, a contributing factor is that very few aliens are introduced, and when they are introduced, nobody feels the need to sit around expositioning who they are and how they act.
-they couldn't figure out who the lead would be. They wanted it to be Anakin, I think, but then chose to cast a child actor and focus the first film on Obi-wan and Qui-gon.
-They made the first film for children, the second film for cgi, and the third to prequel into the fourth movie. That's pretty terrible for the cohesion of it all.
-They focused on politics and politics almost by nature are boring in a Star Wars film. Please to not politics ever again.
-Too many villains.
What is wrong with 7? Well, I haven't thought as hard about this because I'm more of a fan in past-tense at this point...but I think the term "try-hard" was invented for it. It tries to reinvigorate the franchise for the older generations. It tries to be a new hope for a new generation. It tries to be cringe levels of progressive. It tries to be nothing like the prequels that were so entirely wrecked. It tries to set up the next two movies.
And don't get me wrong, it sticks the landing on a lot of this, but in the end, it feels incredibly cowardly and safe. It feels like a money grab. It feels like it isn't a new direction for star wars. It feels like the most daring thing that could happen is that the black guy kisses the Sith Apprentice at Han's grave.
And I as a rule hate most safe media especially for legacy franchises like this. They should have made the daring choice to recast han, leia, and luke for a new generation. They should have had their empowered female be Mara Jade and a Leia who grows from princess help me into a strong jedi and commander because that's a ****ing arc to believe in. They should have tried to do what no one does and do the clean up after the happily ever-after story.
It was anti-climatic from the moment you knew he was gonna be vader. I actually like that they don't try to fix that. And it should be a sad story. Vader is a sad character. The dragging on can be attributed to the politics, which I agree about. But over all, it's a rather touching story especially for anyone who has had to watch a person they love go the wrong way.
I don't mind the Ewoks stuff. It's cute and shows the dwarf obsession of the era. 10/10. Unrest your case.
Did he actually die? The way I remember it his Mando Armour saved him the first time, the second time he was cloned, and the third time he actually died. Although, I grant you, the EU is a mess and has holes. But, as I argued it is much richer. Which I think it is still. To be fair, all it has to beat is a rewashed borrowed ladder progressive new hope. So even if your three death count is accurate, I'd take three deaths to same Sarlak as better than untrained force user beats Sith Apprentice of many years because belief.
In my opinion, the failure that is the prequels can be attributed to the following factors:
-The new and up and coming tech. They didn't use real special effects nearly enough and they were in love with cgi.
-They had the problem I call the "everything is an alien or weird problem". If you look at the originals, a contributing factor is that very few aliens are introduced, and when they are introduced, nobody feels the need to sit around expositioning who they are and how they act.
-they couldn't figure out who the lead would be. They wanted it to be Anakin, I think, but then chose to cast a child actor and focus the first film on Obi-wan and Qui-gon.
-They made the first film for children, the second film for cgi, and the third to prequel into the fourth movie. That's pretty terrible for the cohesion of it all.
-They focused on politics and politics almost by nature are boring in a Star Wars film. Please to not politics ever again.
-Too many villains.
What is wrong with 7? Well, I haven't thought as hard about this because I'm more of a fan in past-tense at this point...but I think the term "try-hard" was invented for it. It tries to reinvigorate the franchise for the older generations. It tries to be a new hope for a new generation. It tries to be cringe levels of progressive. It tries to be nothing like the prequels that were so entirely wrecked. It tries to set up the next two movies.
And don't get me wrong, it sticks the landing on a lot of this, but in the end, it feels incredibly cowardly and safe. It feels like a money grab. It feels like it isn't a new direction for star wars. It feels like the most daring thing that could happen is that the black guy kisses the Sith Apprentice at Han's grave.
And I as a rule hate most safe media especially for legacy franchises like this. They should have made the daring choice to recast han, leia, and luke for a new generation. They should have had their empowered female be Mara Jade and a Leia who grows from princess help me into a strong jedi and commander because that's a ****ing arc to believe in. They should have tried to do what no one does and do the clean up after the happily ever-after story.
It was anti-climatic from the moment you knew he was gonna be vader. I actually like that they don't try to fix that. And it should be a sad story. Vader is a sad character. The dragging on can be attributed to the politics, which I agree about. But over all, it's a rather touching story especially for anyone who has had to watch a person they love go the wrong way.
I don't mind the Ewoks stuff. It's cute and shows the dwarf obsession of the era. 10/10. Unrest your case.