Game Thread Breath of the Wild Mafia

[Ronin]

Still waiting to hear from Pancake, too.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

Still waiting to hear from Pancake, too.

Did you tag him?

 

[Ronin]

Did you tag him?

Pendio has about a million times.

 

[funnier6]

I don’t see why we couldn’t have lynched ALiT or kokirion and let Sadia talk day three but whatever.

Really? An extension? I personally see this as a scummy attempt to stall for time, but maybe you can prove me wrong. Let's hear it.

When someone is about to be lynched and they haven’t had time to post a defense the whole phase it’s not exactly unusual to want some extra time to give your thoughts. Though she could’ve at least posted and said she was busy before now.

 

[Lily]

I don’t see why we couldn’t have lynched ALiT or kokirion and let Sadia talk day three but whatever.
When someone is about to be lynched and they haven’t had time to post a defense the whole phase it’s not exactly unusual to want some extra time to give your thoughts. Though she could’ve at least posted and said she was busy before now.

I'm aware of that, which is why I said she could prove me wrong. What annoys me most is that quite a few people go inactive in these games. I know we all have lives to live with jobs, families, etc. But if you aren't sure about your free time and cannot be available to even post once in 72 hours, you should consider subbing. Think about how it affects the other players.

 

[A Link In Time]

Spoiler

I think your post summed it up pretty well, in that he should do more focusing on what is scum play rather than what might be scum play. Seems like he's doing quite a bit of accusing and not putting much action behind it.



Hmm, weird. Well if anyone wants me to try and fix it and repost for convenience I will!



I'm a bit confused why you're still suspicious of Kokirion after it's basically been confirmed there was a lightning rod. I do think he's suspicious, but not for the reason you're implying. With the lightning rod it doesn't matter that you originally targeted Kokirion, because your target wouldn't affect him, it would affect whoever the lightning rod is. Even here you say if there's not a redirect in place you feel confident you tampered with his kill, but we're pretty positive there was and yet you still seem to be following the same path of logic?



Actually, thanks for that explanation because it does make sense and makes me a little less wary of you now. Though I'd still like to see a little more reasoning like that behind some of your other posts.



See, I don't think it was her last threat alone that looks scummy. It was basically all of her posts near eod, when all the voting/unvoting was happening. She didn't seem so much like she was connecting dots and balancing between Tristan and All Might, but more like she was trying to play both sides to be safe. It looked wishy-washy which isn't uncommon for scum to do. Her posts before that did look decent, but those were at the very beginning of the day when I feel like she had a much easier time appearing to look good by questioning easy points. She mostly questioned funnier a lot, which basically every 'new' person who plays with him does regardless of their alignment.

Yes, my own role probably did not affect kokirion last night if there is a lightning rod. But in light of All Might's soft claim, I feel pretty confident in kokirion being the mafia factional kill targeting funnier last night given almost everyone else is accounted for. With respect to his own content, I am still not pleased with his absurd claim that Tristan, funnier, and I were a scum team on Day 1, and now he claims I was defending Tristan because I knew he's flip town. Truth is, mafia almost never defend town wagons that are in the lead for the majority of the day. They just let the townie die and town eats itself later on. I defended Tristan because I found him townie, and kokirion's inability to acknowledge that is suspect.

 

[A Link In Time]

Can you name an example of me tunneling on you previously?

In FE mafia where I was the vig.

 

[A Link In Time]

Oh, I see. Personally I’d rather ALIT over Sadia though.


Actually he softed after the daily claim was already used, so it’s more or less impossible for someone to effectively counter. They could want him dead really badly but not really elaborate why, and if the town Role Blocker happens to be pancake or Sadia they may not say anything at all. I don’t thibk he would have any counter to worry about for a full day with that gambit and that could buy him some needed time with the heat he was getting today.
Lol okay guess I won’t worry about you anymore. XD

I agree.

As a little experiment, what does everyone think about ALIT and kokirion being the wagons today? Assuming all might keeps the rest of that list to himself these are two I feel are most likely to be scum so I think it would be interesting if we kept the wagons close for a while.

Vote: ALIT

The only reason I softed was because I believed I had valuable information to share regarding kokirion. Even though it's true that I probably had no effect on his night action if a lightning rod was in play last night, I believe he's still the most likely person to have performed the night kill for the mafia in light of the information All Might has shared with us. Additionally, as I told Minish just before, I don't buy his rubbish that he actually believes I defended Tristan so I could look good after he flipped and attack the people on his wagon. I defended Tristan because I found him townie, yet kokirion seemingly refuses to acknowledge the simplest explanation. I'm not sure what to do to convince you that you're wrong as you've seemingly settled on me and refuse to acknowledge any of my points, but my thought process outlined her is what I'm going off of.

 

[A Link In Time]

I think the fact that he seemed to consider the lack of a redirect a somewhat likely possibility and that (if there wasn't one) that he was the reason the NK failed (as opposed to another protective role that could protect from multiple kills) seems pretty shaky to me.

The fact that he's trying to throw doubt into a gamestate that can be basically confirmed by two players who would be punished with a lynch if a hole were found in their story seems like it could be indicative of desperate scum who doesn't want us to effectively clear a large number of townies through the N1 results.

The fact that he claimed something like that could also be him trying to get a piece of the "pretty much confirmed town" pie before its too late.

I'm not trying to throw doubt onto the game state. I was simply skeptical of a lightning rod because it's not a common role. But then people said Pendio uses it in a lot of his games, and All Might confirmed as much by saying I targeted funnier instead of my intended target of kokirion last night, and I accepted that a lightning rod is in play. I voted for kokirion not only because of his general scumminess this game, but also because he's almost certainly mafia by process of elimination when we account for all of the people who targeted funnier last night.

 

[A Link In Time]

I was initially planning to vote for Yiga or Rubik now, but I changed my mind. I am going to vote for ALIT afterall, and here is why:


how do you know the mafia is able to choose who to send? Maybe I really haven't played a game here anymore for a long time and nowadays every mafia faction here can choose who to send out for a kill at night, but I would not consider that a given. How do you know that information, was that a scum slip up?

vote: ALIT

your soft claim is also the weakest so far. Saying that you targeted me cannot be proved/disproved by anyone if there has been a lightning rod, and simply stating that you prevented me from potentially doing something is also vague enough to prevent anyone from counterclaiming. An ideal claim.

Yes, I realize my claim is the most suspect, especially because my role can also be a mafia role, but I only softed because I was sure you had been caught, and I also wanted to do so to clear up the night actions that were performed last night on funnier. I probably got a little too ahead of myself with interpreting night actions, but I still believe you to be scummy on the basis of your posts. A lot of the questions you asked to debunk my case are WIFOM. It's hard to know what you were thinking thus far this game, but I'm seeing some pretty classic scum tactics from you. You're generally laying low and going for pretty safe targets in your scum list - people who are inactive and/or who have previously gotten heat. Then there's the out of the blue scum list you had on Day 1 that didn't hold up at all, and now you're voting me for a pretty crappy reason yourself. Almost all night kills are assigned on ZD. And you thinking I defended Tristan for town cred is hard to believe as well. Day 1 on ZD usually ends with everyone just jumping on a town wagon and calling it a day. I thought Tristan was townie so I fought his wagon and tried to get a second wagon onto All Might instead. Mafia would almost always sit back in that situation and let town devour themselves.

 

[funnier6]

I'm not trying to throw doubt onto the game state. I was simply skeptical of a lightning rod because it's not a common role. But then people said Pendio uses it in a lot of his games, and All Might confirmed as much by saying I targeted funnier instead of my intended target of kokirion last night, and I accepted that a lightning rod is in play. I voted for kokirion not only because of his general scumminess this game, but also because he's almost certainly mafia by process of elimination when we account for all of the people who targeted funnier last night.

This is another one of my “I’m too tired to think straight but you should know” posts, but you’re getting it confused again. You targeted kokirion, all might targeted me, but they were both redirected to flora who is the softed lightning rod and was affected by every action used last night.

 

[A Link In Time]

This is another one of my “I’m too tired to think straight but you should know” posts, but you’re getting it confused again. You targeted kokirion, all might targeted me, but they were both redirected to flora who is the softed lightning rod and was affected by every action used last night.

Oh, okay.

 

[kokirion]

... ALIT,

I supported the extension for 2 reasons:
1) Sadia was set to lynch. I have a neutral read on her atm. I do not like extensions if will just lead to a repeat of the same arguments, but in this case Sadia (the prime lynching target) returns from absence and may change the course of the discussion. I would like to hear what she has to say.
2) I'm voting for you, and considering that I find you a better target than Sadia atm I'm happy with my vote. However, as I said in my post about all my reads, out of all my scum reads you were roughly the most doubtful one. I decided to vote for you after you kept hammering about me being some "factional killer", which seemed like information to me that only scum would take for grated. But admittedly, funnier posted right after my vote that this has become quite normal practice at ZD, which may explain your confidence on that information. With not being a 100% sure about you, an extension can give me some time for reflection and maybe I'll be able to find a better lead somewhere.

BUT, every time that I doubt about whether you are truly scum or not, you make some posts that once again confirm all my suspicions against you. I am fairly confident now that you are scum, and here is why:

1) you have an obsession with the Tristan lynch
I get that after Tristan flipped town, it would be worthwile to look into the Tristan bandwagon. But your focuss on that starts to look more and more on an obsession. So far, I have not seen a single post of you in which you analysed a lead that was not related to the Tristan case. Only scum or a cop would so blindly limit himself to solely 1 lead (and since someone already claimed cop, I assume you are not).
You started with accusing All Might. You left him when he came up with a trustworthy soft claim. Then you moved on to Kirino and me. You dropped Kirino at the moment (coincidence?) he removed me from his town list, since then you have only been going after me. Town would try to get a balanced perspective on the game, you are not doing that at all..



2) you selective pick and leave out evidence to proof my "scumminess"
Not only are you obsessed with lynching me, your explanation for why you found me scummy is weak at most, and when it is challenged you just move on to some other piece of evidence:

Spoiler

I looked back right now, and kokirion voted Tristan and then asked Sadia who she wanted to vote for with a potential tie lurking ahead. I think it was pretty weird to ping Sadia and ask her specifically as those were the last posts kokirion made for the day, but I could be reading too much into it. That said, kokirion reading me, Tristan, and funnier as a scum team bothers me more today now that Tristan has flipped town.

Initially, you had 2 reasons for being suspicious of me. (1) you found it weird that I asked Sadia about her opinion, and that (2) I called you, funnier and Tristan a "possible scum team".

Both arguments are rather weak. For the first one, I think it makes sense that when a tie is lurking ahead, I would try to lobby for people to join my bandwagon (because hey, if I don't believe in my own vote, then why am I voting?). I wanted Sadia to share her thoughts and preferrably vote for Tristan. For your second argument, you took this a bit out of the context. Keep in mind that this was said on day 1, when RVS was still going on. I'm also a player who is always a tad blunt in mafia games anyway, and then I see a really scummy statement from Tristan which you and funnier then strangely start to defend. Of course I would call that a "scum team", but I also talked more about it which you did not take into account in your analyses:

Spoiler

I did make up my mind now, I’ll vote for Tristan

Vote: Tristan

Not because I am so super convinced that specifically HE is scum, but because he is the player that links all my other suspects. To be honest, most of Tristan’s defence after my last post was quite sound. But I can imagine either ALIT or Funnier to be in cahoots with him (for reasons I mentioned before). If Tristan flips scum, that will make the theory that ALIT or funnier was aiding him more likely. If he flips town, some of the suspicion against ALIT and funnier will be gone. So regardless of the outcome, I think we will learn from a Tristan-lynch. At the moment, I think he is the most promising candidate

"more likely", "I can imagine", etc. don't sound like I was 200% sure all three of you were truly a scumteam.

Then you moved on to the "evidence" that you apparently blocked me last night and that because All Might saw me doing something last night and no kil had happened, I must have been the killer. Yet, the lightning rod theory got pretty much proven shortly after, which explains why no kill had occured. You did not take this into account, and up till today you kept using this as evidence.

When you realised this morning that this was incorrect, you changed your evidence to the following:

Yes, my own role probably did not affect kokirion last night if there is a lightning rod. But in light of All Might's soft claim, I feel pretty confident in kokirion being the mafia factional kill targeting funnier last night given almost everyone else is accounted for. With respect to his own content, I am still not pleased with his absurd claim that Tristan, funnier, and I were a scum team on Day 1, and now he claims I was defending Tristan because I knew he's flip town. Truth is, mafia almost never defend town wagons that are in the lead for the majority of the day. They just let the townie die and town eats itself later on. I defended Tristan because I found him townie, and kokirion's inability to acknowledge that is suspect.

with everything else accounted for, you refer to the assumption that the mafia sent out a kill, and thus that the killer has been one of the people that All Might saw around Flora last night. Since some of these people have since made reasonably trustworthy claims, it is true that the pool of potential killers on that list is shrinking. However, All Might mentioned 7(!) active people. Let's say we have a pool left of 4 people, that makes the chance of me being the killer merely 25%. Considering that we have 12 players in the game, and probably 3 mafia members, the average chance of any random player being scum is also 25%....
And of course, then you move back again to your initial "evidence" of finding my vote for Tristan scummy, which goes bac to my initial points and where you base your entire analysis of me on a quasi-RVS stage post.

3) you are very sloppy with details in this game
Until just now, you mistakenly assumed that every night action was redirected to funnier (whereas it redirected to Flora) and that the lightning rod was only a theory (while all the evidence piled up pretty much confirmed it at this point) etc.
Some of these details should be essential in your analyses of me (such as whether or not you have "blocked" a kill or not), and these details have been common knowledge. It seems to me as if the details do not matter that much to you, as if you are just trying to fit your theories in with the scarce mounts of evidence around. Very sloppy, and not at all townish

Lastly, once again, your alibi is also weak. You too have been confirmed to have been active last night (so you too can possibly have been the killer) and you softclaimed a role that can prevent actions. Very safe, because maffiosi too can have that role, and also vague enough to prevent anyone from counterclaiming. The roleblocker is not the only role that can prevent actions (think about the jailor etc.), so you can easily claim to have a different role if anyone starts to question you.

I am convinced you are scum.

 

[YIGAhim]

... ALIT,

I supported the extension for 2 reasons:
1) Sadia was set to lynch. I have a neutral read on her atm. I do not like extensions if will just lead to a repeat of the same arguments, but in this case Sadia (the prime lynching target) returns from absence and may change the course of the discussion. I would like to hear what she has to say.
2) I'm voting for you, and considering that I find you a better target than Sadia atm I'm happy with my vote. However, as I said in my post about all my reads, out of all my scum reads you were roughly the most doubtful one. I decided to vote for you after you kept hammering about me being some "factional killer", which seemed like information to me that only scum would take for grated. But admittedly, funnier posted right after my vote that this has become quite normal practice at ZD, which may explain your confidence on that information. With not being a 100% sure about you, an extension can give me some time for reflection and maybe I'll be able to find a better lead somewhere.

BUT, every time that I doubt about whether you are truly scum or not, you make some posts that once again confirm all my suspicions against you. I am fairly confident now that you are scum, and here is why:

1) you have an obsession with the Tristan lynch
I get that after Tristan flipped town, it would be worthwile to look into the Tristan bandwagon. But your focuss on that starts to look more and more on an obsession. So far, I have not seen a single post of you in which you analysed a lead that was not related to the Tristan case. Only scum or a cop would so blindly limit himself to solely 1 lead (and since someone already claimed cop, I assume you are not).
You started with accusing All Might. You left him when he came up with a trustworthy soft claim. Then you moved on to Kirino and me. You dropped Kirino at the moment (coincidence?) he removed me from his town list, since then you have only been going after me. Town would try to get a balanced perspective on the game, you are not doing that at all..



2) you selective pick and leave out evidence to proof my "scumminess"
Not only are you obsessed with lynching me, your explanation for why you found me scummy is weak at most, and when it is challenged you just move on to some other piece of evidence:

Spoiler

Initially, you had 2 reasons for being suspicious of me. (1) you found it weird that I asked Sadia about her opinion, and that (2) I called you, funnier and Tristan a "possible scum team".

Both arguments are rather weak. For the first one, I think it makes sense that when a tie is lurking ahead, I would try to lobby for people to join my bandwagon (because hey, if I don't believe in my own vote, then why am I voting?). I wanted Sadia to share her thoughts and preferrably vote for Tristan. For your second argument, you took this a bit out of the context. Keep in mind that this was said on day 1, when RVS was still going on. I'm also a player who is always a tad blunt in mafia games anyway, and then I see a really scummy statement from Tristan which you and funnier then strangely start to defend. Of course I would call that a "scum team", but I also talked more about it which you did not take into account in your analyses:

Spoiler

"more likely", "I can imagine", etc. don't sound like I was 200% sure all three of you were truly a scumteam.

Then you moved on to the "evidence" that you apparently blocked me last night and that because All Might saw me doing something last night and no kil had happened, I must have been the killer. Yet, the lightning rod theory got pretty much proven shortly after, which explains why no kill had occured. You did not take this into account, and up till today you kept using this as evidence.

When you realised this morning that this was incorrect, you changed your evidence to the following:

with everything else accounted for, you refer to the assumption that the mafia sent out a kill, and thus that the killer has been one of the people that All Might saw around Flora last night. Since some of these people have since made reasonably trustworthy claims, it is true that the pool of potential killers on that list is shrinking. However, All Might mentioned 7(!) active people. Let's say we have a pool left of 4 people, that makes the chance of me being the killer merely 25%. Consi
dering that we have 12 players in the game, and probably 3 mafia members, the average chance of any random player being scum is also 25%....
And of course, then you move back again to your initial "evidence" of finding my vote for Tristan scummy, which goes bac to my initial points and where you base your entire analysis of me on a quasi-RVS stage post.

3) you are very sloppy with details in this game
Until just now, you mistakenly assumed that every night action was redirected to funnier (whereas it redirected to Flora) and that the lightning rod was only a theory (while all the evidence piled up pretty much confirmed it at this point) etc.
Some of these details should be essential in your analyses of me (such as whether or not you have "blocked" a kill or not), and these details have been common knowledge. It seems to me as if the details do not matter that much to you, as if you are just trying to fit your theories in with the scarce mounts of evidence around. Very sloppy, and not at all townish

Lastly, once again, your alibi is also weak. You too have been confirmed to have been active last night (so you too can possibly have been the killer) and you softclaimed a role that can prevent actions. Very safe, because maffiosi too can have that role, and also vague enough to prevent anyone from counterclaiming. The roleblocker is not the only role that can prevent actions (think about the jailor etc.), so you can easily claim to have a different role if anyone starts to question you.

I am convinced you are scum.

the other reasons are fine but sloppy game info is a pretty weak piece of evidence

 

[funnier6]

I'm not sure what to do to convince you that you're wrong as you've seemingly settled on me and refuse to acknowledge any of my points, but my thought process outlined her is what I'm going off of.

I’m not convinced, I’m just more sure of you and kokirion than anybody else. I have acknowledged your points and I don’t find them very convincing.

And you thinking I defended Tristan for town cred is hard to believe as well. Day 1 on ZD usually ends with everyone just jumping on a town wagon and calling it a day. I thought Tristan was townie so I fought his wagon and tried to get a second wagon onto All Might instead. Mafia would almost always sit back in that situation and let town devour themselves.

Like this right here, that’s a complete wifom situation so it means almost nothing to me. “Mafia wouldn’t do this” well, uh, if they didn’t want to look like mafia yes they would. I disagree with almost the entirety of kokirions argument that you’re scum though, particularly the sloppy with details bit, since if anything mafia would be hyper aware of details and be extra careful not to be sloppy unless they were being sloppy to look like derp town.