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Avengers Mafia: Attack of the Cosmic Invaders

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Also, I've been thinking about this. And there might be a relationship between Vergo and PatCat.


While discussing our lynch candidates, Vergo did mention PatCat. Yet if they were scum buds, he would know better than to take my point against Johnny into consideration and ignore my point against PatCat. He also spoke above PatCat very neutrally.

When the deadline was fast approaching, I thought the lynch candidates would be PatCat, Malon, and Linkdude. But Vergo replaced PatCat with Jamie, and his words implied that others should chose one of the three, effectively ruling out PatCat.

I feel like this isn't taking into account the context of the situation yesterday; it can certainly be spun as me "ruling out PatCat", but you of all people should fully understand my intention - making sure we didn't suffer through a no lynch. I, at multiple points yesterday, attempted to gain consensus on pretty much any candidate. I would have completely supported a PatCat lynch had I thought he would be our best option for agreement; this is why I wanted as many people's input as possible, so I could reach a compromise with my personal suspicions and the rest of the players. But due to the nature of how the whole conversation started yesterday.... of course this wasn't going to be the case (more on that below).


I'm not saying this is scummy. Because everything else on Vergo reads town to me. I'm just saying there seems to be a relationship and if PatCat flips scum, Vergo could be looked at.

This sounds very strange to me, Eduarda, because the entirety of the foundation we had for discussion yesterday was that I pointed out that I didn't like the justification for the PatCat wagon and was specifically concerned about the end of it due to the speed at which it picked up. In the event that I think the justification for the wagon for a given player is not warranted, does this not imply that I also believe the post in question was not scummy? This is a relationship that was established at the beginning and wasn't really contested by someone such as yourself until just now. I didn't believe his post in question made him a better lynch candidate than the very people he had on his wagon (Linkdude, Jamie). You can call it a "relationship" if you want, but I have to disagree that the only thing that qualifies as a "relationship" is pointing out that a certain wagon doesn't seem legitimate, I'm completely sticking to that.

That being said, this post is striking me as particularly problematic:

I'll admit that going after Malon was a rash decision, but a good chunk of the town supported it, so I don't think it was a mistake. I went after him because he seemed the most scummy to me, I didn't know how he played in the past. I didn't know so many people would vote for him. Logically the should be scum in that Malon lynch, though. Cecking the overlaps between the people involved with the bandwagon and Malon's lynch might be a good start.

I'm not understanding how lynching Malon yesterday is something we should regret, nor have I ever understood the notion that some are throwing around that we effectively wasted a lynch due to him being a likely mafia target:

1.) There was going to be no consensus on a lynch yesterday. People were all over the place and wanted different people lynched for different suspicions they personally had. I specifically stated I found Linkdude to be the most scummy, and would prefer him to be our day one lynch in a perfect world where we all agreed on everything. It was obvious that wasn't going to happen, so we opted for the policy lynch. It was that or nothing, and nothing isn't acceptable.

2.) Malon blatantly said he would make no attempt to scum hunt and would attempt to stay neutral as possible. This is a type of player that the mafia loves to have in the game - an inactive, unwilling, passive player who will by his own admission not attempt to help the town cause and would purposely be as ambiguous as possible. It doesn't help that Malon has proven to be less than helpful for the town in previous games as well, showing no capacity to exercise his role to aid a town win.

3.) There was no way Malon would ever be a hot mafia night-one target with the players we have in this game, added on top of the context of this game specifically and what Malon "contributed" to the conversation yesterday. If we wanted him alive for a potential vigilante policy kill that's fine...... but once again, it would come at the cost of having a no-lynch on day one, which to my knowledge no one has said to be a good idea in a game this size.

All of this being considered, absolutely nothing Malon did struck me as particularly "scummy" yesterday (in fact, his reply that he wanted to remain in the shadows is such a terrible answer that I refuse his team mates would allow it). I thought our justification for wanting Malon dead was valid, all things I've mentioned being applicable. The fact that you seem to think it was anything other than a compromise policy lynch has me worried.

But as I alluded to at the beginning of the day, what concerns me the most is how we quickly climbed to a majority. I thought we would be lucky to garner just the six we would need to avoid the no-lynch due to everyone's lack of general agreement; but we went far beyond that.

The reason I singled you two out specifically, @Sadia and @Storm , was because you both were part of the climb to majority on Malon yesterday with seemingly little else to say about the situation, and after it had already been resolved (the six had already been reached and was unlikely to change). Mido and Eduarda were both quite active leading up to the end of the day when the majority was reached, making me less wary, and Kirino understandably had little to say due to being a late replacement.

I think it should be obvious there is at least one scum on the wagon; after all, it was a majority of the players and thus statistically the chances favor that hypothesis. But who, when, and why are the questions we should be asking in order to find where that potential mafia member is.

I still support a Linkdude lynch today, and would prefer this be the case. If he flips mafia, I think credence is given to PatCat and his innocence.

Although the inverse could be true as well - eliminating PatCat and having him flip mafia would, for me, validate the early parts of his bandwagon while making the second half even more questionable. Ripping out the root could prove more useful than cutting off one of the branches.
 

Jamie

Till the roof comes off, till the lights go out...
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Honestly do you think that HoL's teammates would let him make a post like that? Do you think that his teammates would refrain from directing him around and telling him who to vote for?
Sure. Perhaps HoL is a human bring with his own agency and his teammates respect that while also giving advice. Perhaps his teammates are reprimanding him right now.
 

Jamie

Till the roof comes off, till the lights go out...
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On top of all this, I believe the mafia killed him for more than just "he's an danger and didn't post much =^)" because if that's the case why didn't they kill Sadia? Or Kirino?
If they had killed Sadia or Kirino perhaps we'd be saying why not Johnny? Maybe that's just the one they chose.
 
Joined
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I looked back at the bandwagon of PatCat in hopes of finding someone who was particularly pushing the lynch of those who voted for PatCat. Honestly, I didn't find anything big. Those who were pushing for a lynch of PatCat voters have been scum hunting the rest of the day. This was the only lead at the time, so it makes sense it held a lot of people's attention.

While I was looking back, Linkdude's conflicting reasoning for voting for PatCat stuck out again.

Adressing the patcat post, it seems like he's just trying to slide in and make a post but not contribute much himself. so I'm going to go and
Vote: Patcat

I guess so. My vote did what I wanted it to do. See an increase in quality from the player. I get they had only made one post but if we can get everyone going quality from the beginning, that's better in the long run.

His explanation never matched. If you wanted his post quality to go up, why not give that for your reason to vote from the beginning? I backed off my initial thoughts yesterday because he pointed out something about Jamie and my thoughts went there. Like I told Eduarda, I believe Jamie to be town.

I want to hear from Linkdude74 the most. I've been waiting to hear from him since the day started but he hasn't posted yet. He said he wold be limited because of work, but I would expect at least one post. Maybe voting for him will get him to talk.

Vote: Linkdude74
 

Viral Maze

Verb the adjective noun
Joined
Feb 5, 2010
Location
Canada
Two games is tough... >.>
I will try to post tomorrow with some actual content. I'm a few pages behind, but also need to iso.
 

Eduarda

Srishti is annie is eduarda right?
Joined
May 28, 2010
Location
Ontario, Canada.
Aahh, Vergo, I wrote 2 sentences on you and you gave me an essay ;-;

I feel like this isn't taking into account the context of the situation yesterday; it can certainly be spun as me "ruling out PatCat", but you of all people should fully understand my intention - making sure we didn't suffer through a no lynch. I, at multiple points yesterday, attempted to gain consensus on pretty much any candidate. I would have completely supported a PatCat lynch had I thought he would be our best option for agreement; this is why I wanted as many people's input as possible, so I could reach a compromise with my personal suspicions and the rest of the players. But due to the nature of how the whole conversation started yesterday.... of course this wasn't going to be the case (more on that below).
I get that you were trying to avoid a no lynch. I was trying to do just that, too. And like you, I wanted to compile suspicions and shortlist them. Below, I took your suspicions into consideration, too, even if I wasn't so sure about a Malon lynch. I expressed that I wanted others to join into the discussion and put in who's lynches they would be willing to back up, but no one did.

[...]Is your scumbud in one of the three Vergo and I were discussing to lynch?

On that topic, I'd like to know if everyone is OK with that short list. Malon, Link dude, and PatCat. No one else chimed in.

When you thought that the day was ending soon and you could only be online for another hour, you asked players to chose between Jamie, Malon, and Linkdude. I found it odd that you suddenly dropped PatCat from the list without an explanation. If you had explained that you don't find him lynch worthy, I would have understood. It was just the sudden drop which stood out to me.

But it probably was lack of communication. I thought we were compiling a list with everyone's major suspicions, but you were probably compiling your own list. So I'm not really holding it against you, it's just something which stood out.



This sounds very strange to me, Eduarda, because the entirety of the foundation we had for discussion yesterday was that I pointed out that I didn't like the justification for the PatCat wagon and was specifically concerned about the end of it due to the speed at which it picked up. In the event that I think the justification for the wagon for a given player is not warranted, does this not imply that I also believe the post in question was not scummy? This is a relationship that was established at the beginning and wasn't really contested by someone such as yourself until just now. I didn't believe his post in question made him a better lynch candidate than the very people he had on his wagon (Linkdude, Jamie). You can call it a "relationship" if you want, but I have to disagree that the only thing that qualifies as a "relationship" is pointing out that a certain wagon doesn't seem legitimate, I'm completely sticking to that.

I clearly stated that I found PatCat's bandwagon didn't make sense either:
[...] I didn't fully agree on PatCat, either, as though that post was scummy, it was a single post and not valid for a vote just one day in the game day. [...]

It wasn't really his first post which stood out to me, but the rest of his posts. Just like Koki pointed out. You hadn't provided an opinion on the rest of PatCat's posts, so I just assumed you also found him slightly off.



Was the rest of the post aimed at myself, or PatCat? If it was PatCat, I'll just respond to this:
I still support a Linkdude lynch today, and would prefer this be the case. If he flips mafia, I think credence is given to PatCat and his innocence.

Although the inverse could be true as well - eliminating PatCat and having him flip mafia would, for me, validate the early parts of his bandwagon while making the second half even more questionable. Ripping out the root could prove more useful than cutting off one of the branches.
I'm open to voting either one, by the end of the day. Linkdude just dropping off the face of the Earth gets me really worried though. Maybe he finds his lynch inevitable and useless to argue against. But if he were town, wouldn't he say that? That he doesn't have anything else to say and it's ok if people lynch him. As Mafia, he may instead chose to be quiet and hope someone else slips.
 

Sadia

Have a Punderful Day!
Joined
Apr 28, 2013
I know what I said about PatCat's bandwagon yesterday; it was too quick and didn't seem justified to me. To an extent, I still agree with my stance on that. However, Kokirion made a good point. There was so much focus on the bandwagoners that people, myself included, seemed to forget about Patcat himself. Of course, I am wary that Kokirion may be using Pat as an easy target, but really, looking at all his posts compiled together like that, all the use of emotional appeal does look quite bad. And then, when Pat was responding to Kokirion's post, he didn't mention anything about playing victim. @PatCat

PatCat did you not have anything to say on this???

Says the person who brought Malon to L-1

Different situation, imo. :P Eduarda made four serious votes yesterday, which to me, look like four attempts to get a lynch happening. But you're right, it's not like I was trying to delay majority by voting Malon.

Yeah, after going in circles for 12 pages, I was eager to have new information to go off of.

This is fair.

When Johnny and Gumball said that since Malon is most likely going to be NKed by the Mafia, we should lynch him, I didn't get that logic at all. If Malon would be NKed, why not turn to another player then? All the town has is lynches. But both Gummy and Johnny are much better players than me and no one else questioned the logic, so I thought I was not seeing something they could see. But when Kirino brought it up I realized there wasn't anything else to it, and felt we lynched a potential NK target, thus letting the Mafia's NK target open to another townie.

What Gummy said :P

So, it looks like today's lynch target will be either Libk and Patcat, considering what everybody has been posting so far. I think that I, personally find Pat more scummy at this point. I feel like he's dodging some accusations. However, Libk hasn't posted today yet, and I would really like to see how he defends himself so I can make a proper conclusion.
 

Libk

Spaceballs: The Mafia Player
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Jul 12, 2011
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Spaceball 1
Kk guys. I see a lot for me to respond to and will tonight when the gf is asleep. Weekends are rough on me but to give you an idea of my schedule
Monday I work 6 pm to 12 am, I usually stat up until 4 am so I have then to post. I then sleep until a few hours before I go to work on tuesday, 3 pm to 12 am. Repeat but on Wednesday I don't work. So I have a few hours for posting there until the gf comes home, then we go play D&d and then I have time to post after gf sleeps, 9 pm to 4 am. Then I sleep until an hour or so before my 3pm to 12 am shift on Thursday, time to post until 4 am, Friday I'm off as well but I play mtg every Friday night. Then on Saturday I work 4:30 am to 12:30 pm and then spend time with my gf until I have to sleep for a Sunday 4:30 am to 12:30 pm. Spend te until she has to sleep. So I will be able to get to responses at around 7 or 8, maybe 9 tonight. I know it's late but I've been reading everything and haven't meant to go quiet but I'm working on it. I'm sorry about the silence.
 
Joined
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Kk guys. I see a lot for me to respond to and will tonight when the gf is asleep. Weekends are rough on me but to give you an idea of my schedule
Monday I work 6 pm to 12 am, I usually stat up until 4 am so I have then to post. I then sleep until a few hours before I go to work on tuesday, 3 pm to 12 am. Repeat but on Wednesday I don't work. So I have a few hours for posting there until the gf comes home, then we go play D&d and then I have time to post after gf sleeps, 9 pm to 4 am. Then I sleep until an hour or so before my 3pm to 12 am shift on Thursday, time to post until 4 am, Friday I'm off as well but I play mtg every Friday night. Then on Saturday I work 4:30 am to 12:30 pm and then spend time with my gf until I have to sleep for a Sunday 4:30 am to 12:30 pm. Spend te until she has to sleep. So I will be able to get to responses at around 7 or 8, maybe 9 tonight. I know it's late but I've been reading everything and haven't meant to go quiet but I'm working on it. I'm sorry about the silence.

I wondered if that was the case. Just try to post your thoughts when you have the time. For now, I'll leave my vote on you as a reminder.

So, moving on to who some believe to be a lynch candidate, @PatCat I'll add a question of my own. Do you still find Jamie scummy? Or maybe there is someone else you think is scum?
 

Stitch

AKA Patrick
ZD Champion
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Sorry if I haven't answered everything yet, I'very been busy working most of the weekend.

@LittleGumball
I don't necessarily find you scummy, that list specifically was difficult because I didn't really find anybody on it all that scummy. I almost could have put it in another order. I just have a hut feeling that there is something odd about the way that you just bring potential lynch possibilities up with little reasoning from yourself. All in all I don't find you that scummy though.

@Sadia
I'm not really sure how to respond to that, I'm not really sure what you mean with "playing victim".

@Eduarda
I'm not sure if I can give you 3, but Mido and Linkdude74 look like decent candidates. They'be both been awfully quiet today. Mido was also on both bandwagon yesterday in two very different places on each one. This very well could be him trying to hide the fact that he is scum. I might be a bit lenient on Linkdude74 though because of his schedule, I'll see what he has to say later on.

@Frozen Chosen
I don't find Jaimie all that scummy anymore.
 

Mellow Ezlo

Spoony Bard
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Vote Tally 2.1

The Hero of Legend (1) - Jamie
Linkdude74 (1) - Frozen Chosen

Not Voting: Doc, The Hero of Legend, DekuNut, Kokirion, Viral Maze, Eduarda, Sadia, LittleGumball, DekuNut, Ver-go-a-go-go, Kirino, Mido, Linkdude74, Storm, PatCat

With 17 alive, 9 votes are majority. Day 2 will end Monday, June 7th, 10pm PST (GMT-7).

Note: @Doc has requested a replacement. I will attempt to find one. Neither him nor his replacement are obligated to meet the post quota today.
 

Eduarda

Srishti is annie is eduarda right?
Joined
May 28, 2010
Location
Ontario, Canada.
Vote: PatCat

Just their inactivity and Mido's placement on 2 bandwagons are your reasons for lynch? Echoing part of a suggested answer a scummate said?

@PatCat top 5 players you trust? Anyone you have no read on?

Have you played a game with Jamie before?
 
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