Breath of the Wild Zelda Wii U - Taking Advantage Of Multiple Control Schemes or No?

[Ventus]

But what about Twilight Princess? Twilight Princess had two games with a different control choice. Now between TP's motion gaming and SS's motion gaming, which one felt like more of a gimmick?

That's the thing, though. Between TP's motion play and SS', it all boils down to the fact that they are motion play. I.E a gimmick; a different way of playing a game just to attract more customers...in other words, it has no real significance in the game whatsoever. Hell, I remember back in the days of TPWii pre-release and SS pre-release where developers would say something like the following: "with Wii's motion gameplay you can finally BE Link", but I never once felt like I was Link in TPWii nor SS. Motion play is just something different to attract more people, but that doesn't mean you'll get a greater reception or even a better game in the long run.

And this applies to Zelda U as well. By introducing motion play, you're introducing a gimmick that is simply there to attract more people. Yes, the goal of a game company is to sell as many games as possible. But the way of selling a game isn't by having some silly gimmick just because you can. And since Nintendo is more of a perfectionist developer than anything, they WILL try to hammer in all the details for each control scheme, which results in further delayed game release. Not my goal.

 

[JuicieJ]

Sorry but the different control schemes would have to be heavily watered down to cater to any one method of controlling the game.

Tell that to Pikmin 3.

the WiiMotion+ is a thing of the past.

The Wii MotionPlus has been around for, like, 3 years.

Gaming has since reverted to the standard controller

Riiiiiiiiiight, that explains the GamePad and why the Wii MotionPlus is still available for the Wii U.

 

[Cfrock]

Tell that to Pikmin 3.

Pikmin 3 is a great example of the inherent issue with using both Gamepad and Wiimote/Nunchuck because the Wiimote/Nunchuck option lacks certain abilities available with the Gamepad, most notably the 'Swarm' function. Miyamoto himself described the Gamepad as a "must-have feature" in reference to the multiple leaders used in the game which tells us that the Wiimote/Nunchuck is an inferior option in that regard.

Oddly, the Wiimote/Nunchuck are the primary control scheme for the game, with the Gamepad being used as a map in this capacity. Wow, so Nintendo created an exciting and innovative controller with a whole ton of features and only use it as a map because they designed the game with a Wiimote/Nunchuck in mind. So, essentially, I'd be paying £275 (no, actually, £310. Gotta include the price of the game) to play a Wii game with HD visuals.

You keep bringing up Pikmin 3 as a positive example but never explain why it is positive. It's a perfect example of why mixing both Gamepad and Wiimote/Nunchuck is a bad idea because the game's primary control option (a 3-year old controller) lacks features and is less intuitive than the secondary option (the console's actual controller). That is not a good thing.

The Wii MotionPlus has been around for, like, 3 years.

He means that the industry has moved on from full motion control. Nintendo are focusing now on asymmetrical multiplayer and building online communities. Full 1:1 motion control is not their priority anymore. Forcing it on a system that is designed to do so many different things is a step backwards.

Riiiiiiiiiight, that explains the GamePad and why the Wii MotionPlus is still available for the Wii U.

That does explain the Gamepad, as well as the Pro Controller. Notice how Nintendo didn't release a single bundle deal for Wii U that included a Motion+, even though they bundled all Premium models with Nintendo Land, a game which uses Motion+ in 9 of its 12 games? That shows a clear move away from it in my opinion.

 

[Tearbender]

Miyamoto said once that he is trying to make Zelda appeal to more people(still hope this isn't a bad thing), but he could be testing different control schemes. He also said that they want to use Wii motion + in Zelda U so who knows?

 

[The Wanderer]

I'm a little short on time, so I'll state my opinion now and read/possibly reply to everything else later. Yes, Zelda should definitely look into numerous control schemes. Not everyone appreciated Skyward Sword's motion controls, even though I thought they made the game. Additionally, if said motion controls are not working correctly for some reason, the game loses much of its luster. So to counter the inherent issues with "advanced" control schemes, "basic" controllers should be used. Actually, the games should probably be designed around standard controllers with "advanced" control schemes used to augment certain areas. For instance, Zelda Wii U could use the Wii MotionPlus for the sword and anything that has to be aimed, but nothing else, which would both save on development time and allow for an inclusive, different experience than standard button controls.

Trying to include all possible control setups may be a dumb idea, but it should at least have one advanced scheme and one basic scheme to allow different ways of playing. I think it would definitely be worth it.

 

[Vaati101]

I think Zelda Wii U will heavily use Wii Motion Plus and the GamePad. I'm thinking more on the lines of using the Motion controls from Skyward Sword and GamePad Controls from Battle Quest, that's good enough for me. Nintendo stated they want to try and keep to Motion controls for future Zelda games, so I don't think the Pro Controller will be used to be honest.

 

[Cfrock]

Actually, the games should probably be designed around standard controllers with "advanced" control schemes used to augment certain areas. For instance, Zelda Wii U could use the Wii MotionPlus for the sword and anything that has to be aimed, but nothing else, which would both save on development time and allow for an inclusive, different experience than standard button controls.

I think Zelda Wii U will heavily use Wii Motion Plus and the GamePad.

Maybe I'm reading these wrong but it sounds like you mean using the Motion+ and the Gamepad at the same time. Is that right?

 

[The Wanderer]

Maybe I'm reading these wrong but it sounds like you mean using the Motion+ and the Gamepad at the same time. Is that right?

Not necessarily. Actually, unless Nintendo has some incredibly streamlined mechanism for locking the GamePad onto your arm, that would just be inconvenient. I'm just referring to one or two control schemes that aren't based completely on pressing buttons (GamePad and/or Wii Remote + Nunchuk) as well as one control scheme that is entirely button controlled (Classic Controller Pro). But considering how many options there are and probably will be available, trying to create "ideal" control schemes for all of them would take up heavy development time and, unless it's delivered flawlessly, may come off as a poor trade-off for extended development time that could potentially have been used in other areas.

 

[Vaati101]

Maybe I'm reading these wrong but it sounds like you mean using the Motion+ and the Gamepad at the same time. Is that right?

I'd say vaguely. What I sort of meant was using them for when it's needed, like using the Motion Controls for moving and combat and the GamePad for certain items and possibly for the World/Dungeon Map. So essentially yeah you could be using them at the same time, but the GamePad for instance would just be sitting on your lap viewing the map or showing your inventory. Using them heavily at the same time would be pretty awkward.

 

[JuicieJ]

Pikmin 3 is a great example of the inherent issue with using both Gamepad and Wiimote/Nunchuck because the Wiimote/Nunchuck option lacks certain abilities available with the Gamepad, most notably the 'Swarm' function. Miyamoto himself described the Gamepad as a "must-have feature" in reference to the multiple leaders used in the game which tells us that the Wiimote/Nunchuck is an inferior option in that regard.

Oddly, the Wiimote/Nunchuck are the primary control scheme for the game, with the Gamepad being used as a map in this capacity. Wow, so Nintendo created an exciting and innovative controller with a whole ton of features and only use it as a map because they designed the game with a Wiimote/Nunchuck in mind. So, essentially, I'd be paying £275 (no, actually, £310. Gotta include the price of the game) to play a Wii game with HD visuals.

You keep bringing up Pikmin 3 as a positive example but never explain why it is positive. It's a perfect example of why mixing both Gamepad and Wiimote/Nunchuck is a bad idea because the game's primary control option (a 3-year old controller) lacks features and is less intuitive than the secondary option (the console's actual controller). That is not a good thing.

So people having the choice to use whichever control scheme they find most suitable for them is a bad thing?

I'm extremely confused as to why you think different control schemes with different benefits is a hindrance. One, it allows for what I previously mentioned, and, two, it allows for different experiences in subsequent playthroughs, which pretty much automatically increases the replay value. There's nothing but positives involved.

He means that the industry has moved on from full motion control. Nintendo are focusing now on asymmetrical multiplayer and building online communities. Full 1:1 motion control is not their priority anymore. Forcing it on a system that is designed to do so many different things is a step backwards.

Not really. All they're doing is adding onto what they had with the Wii. They're adding in more variety in order to appeal to more gamers. The Wii MotionPlus is too damn good to leave behind, and Nintendo knows this. That's why there are launch games with it as an option.

That does explain the Gamepad, as well as the Pro Controller. Notice how Nintendo didn't release a single bundle deal for Wii U that included a Motion+, even though they bundled all Premium models with Nintendo Land, a game which uses Motion+ in 9 of its 12 games? That shows a clear move away from it in my opinion.

If you payed attention to any of the Nintendo Directs, you'd know they didn't do that because they're already out on the market, plus most people are already going to have them anyway. There's no need to pack in stuff that will needlessly up the price of the console package.

 

[ShadowDiety]

I would mainly like to see pro controller use, since I just prefer a basic controller above all. Gamepad would be nice too though, if it works like it does in the Wii U tech demo then I'll definitely use that a lot too.

 

[RegalBryant]

So people having the choice to use whichever control scheme they find most suitable for them is a bad thing?

It is if one control scheme is rendered awkward by forced conformity.

 

[JuicieJ]

It is if one control scheme is rendered awkward by forced conformity.

And Nintendo has managed to do this when?

That's the thing, though. Between TP's motion play and SS', it all boils down to the fact that they are motion play. I.E a gimmick; a different way of playing a game just to attract more customers...in other words, it has no real significance in the game whatsoever.

I could argue the same thing involving Zelda's jump to 3D. It was the big thing at the time. It was the hottest tech on the block. A Zelda game in 3D would attract more people. But does that mean it was a mere gimmick? Absolutely not. It was another way to play. Same thing with motion controls.

I'm honestly sick and tired of people treating motion controls as if they're nothing more than a mere gimmick. Yes, they CAN be gimmicky, but so can standard controls. Anything can be a gimmick. It all boils down to how things are applied. With TP Wii, yeah, it was clearly tacked-on, but SS was built from the ground up with the Wii MotionPlus in mind, just like OoT was built from the ground up with the third dimension in mind. Motion controls have just as much of a right to be in gaming as standard controls do. Saying otherwise is a logical fallacy.

 

[Ventus]

And Nintendo has managed to do this when?

They haven't. Why? They hardly ever used more than one control scheme in their games (bar a few party games like Mario Party 7, NintendoLand, etc)...and they certainly have never done so with the prestigious Zelda series. If we assume multiple control schemes are going to be in Zelda U, this would be Nintendo's first step into the task. And, given that Nintendo loves favoring gimmicks (see: DS Zeldas, Wii Zeldas), it wouldn't be too hard to fathom them having the button controls conform to motion controls. No matter how you might approximate the sticks, motion control will always outclass it which means one of two things will take place:

1) Nintendo has to make two (or three if touch screen is one playable method in itself like ST and PH) entirely separate enemy AI codings for every enemy. This takes extra development time.
or
2) Nintendo has to approximate controls for buttons to function similar to the motion controls, which will cripple button controls very significantly and leave button-players with watered down game. Takes extra development time.

Either way you look at it, including motion contorls is a bad idea for most.

It all boils down to how things are applied.

You're exactly right. And how motion controls have been applied since their first big, noticeable jump (the Wii, as I recall) and even onto the motion controller pioneer's deathbed, only screamed gimmick. Skyward Sword was so painfully designed with the WiiMotion+ in mind. This isn't a bad thing at all; like you said, OoT was designed with 3D in mind and several other games...heck, movies, stories, pastimes etc are deisgned with something in mind. However, SS is supposed to be one thing, and that one thing is a Zelda game. All I remember Zelda being was another world. But SS, through its its overworld (sky or surface, doesn't matter) told the player "you're playing a game, you're not in a world. follow these straight lines m'kay?", and through its enemy design told the player "HEY, GUESS WHAT YOU HAVE TO MOVE YOUR WIIMOTE MKAY?". The point is, SS was designed as a last attempt to advertise the motion controls, it wasn't made to be a another world or even a window into another world.

And the fact that motion control isn't as accurate as the standard gamepad (wait before you jump on me on this lol) due to the several painful, mundane sweeps and swipes we have to make to register swings simply doesn't bode well for motion control to be a significant part of gaming, let alone Zelda. Again, I'd much rather have my standard buttons than deal with motion controls and their several redundant intricacies. That's just me. You be you.

 

[JuicieJ]

You're exactly right. And how motion controls have been applied since their first big, noticeable jump (the Wii, as I recall) and even onto the motion controller pioneer's deathbed, only screamed gimmick. Skyward Sword was so painfully designed with the WiiMotion+ in mind. This isn't a bad thing at all; like you said, OoT was designed with 3D in mind and several other games...heck, movies, stories, pastimes etc are deisgned with something in mind. However, SS is supposed to be one thing, and that one thing is a Zelda game. All I remember Zelda being was another world. But SS, through its its overworld (sky or surface, doesn't matter) told the player "you're playing a game, you're not in a world. follow these straight lines m'kay?", and through its enemy design told the player "HEY, GUESS WHAT YOU HAVE TO MOVE YOUR WIIMOTE MKAY?". The point is, SS was designed as a last attempt to advertise the motion controls, it wasn't made to be a another world or even a window into another world.

Yeah, and previous games told you "you have to press a button here m'kay?". It's the same concept with different applications. You're literally making zero sense with your blind hatred towards this game.

And the fact that motion control isn't as accurate as the standard gamepad (wait before you jump on me on this lol) due to the several painful, mundane sweeps and swipes we have to make to register swings simply doesn't bode well for motion control to be a significant part of gaming, let alone Zelda. Again, I'd much rather have my standard buttons than deal with motion controls and their several redundant intricacies. That's just me. You be you.

Except Skyward Sword's Wii MotionPlus only requires very light swings that aren't strenuous in the slightest. If you tired yourself out playing Skyward Sword, you put way too much effort into it.