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Breath of the Wild Zelda Wii U - Taking Advantage Of Multiple Control Schemes or No?

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
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Jan 10, 2011
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On the midnight Spirit Train going anywhere
Duke Nukem Forever and Daikatana.

This is Nintendo we're talking about. They've never delayed a game in one of their biggest franchises and delivered a crappy game.

Using the Gamepad and using Wii Motion+ isn't just a simple question of reprogramming buttons as swings. The game is going to be designed with the Gamepad's functions in mind. Two screens, touch control, a microphone, two analogue sticks, more buttons, heck, even a camera. These are things Motion+ simply does not have. It's not going to be a case of just adding a new control scheme, the way the inventory works will have to be different, the way the map works will have to be different, they will have to either have two totally separate sets of items or completely change how some will work just to accommodate Motion+.

You seem so sure of that bolded portion as if you're an insider on the development of the game.

Why am I constantly being forced to repeat the most basic of information? It's like I have to keep pushing a replay button. The GamePad is absolutely able to emulate the Wii MotionPlus due to its dualshock capability. the core game design wouldn't have to be tweaked much at all.

...the Gamepad is not comparable to Motion+ and if the game used both control schemes it would, as Ventus said, be like having two entirely different games.

Honestly, why care? If you have the choice among 3 control schemes and you're not planning to use the other two, does it really matter if they're any different?

The differences are too many for it to be an easy thing. It would require a lot more dev time, a lot more money and all for what would ultimately be the option to play a worse version of the game.

No they're not. I don't really need to push the replay button again, do I?
 

Zorth

#Scoundrel
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Honestly, why care? If you have the choice among 3 control schemes and you're not planning to use the other two, does it really matter if they're any different?

Think it's because if it turns out to be like he says then people that only wanted one type of control scheme will blame Nintendo for delaying the game so much for something that turned out to be a failure. ^^
 

JuicieJ

SHOW ME YA MOVES!
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Think it's because if it turns out to be like he says then people that only wanted one type of control scheme will blame Nintendo for delaying the game so much for something that turned out to be a failure. ^^

Why would it be delayed? Again, time for me to press the replay button.

Multiple teams can be used to develop control schemes. It wouldn't take any longer to make.
 

Cfrock

Keep it strong
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Mar 17, 2012
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Liverpool, England
You seem so sure of that bolded portion as if you're an insider on the development of the game.

The GamePad is absolutely able to emulate the Wii MotionPlus due to its dualshock capability.

Just look at pretty much any Zelda game and you have proof that when I say Zelda U will be built with the Gamepad in mind I am most likely speaking the truth. Ocarina of Time was built around the control stick and N64's ability to generate polygons. The Oracles games took advantage of the Gameboy's link capabilities, The Wind Waker made use of the Gameboy Player, as did Four Swords Adventures (which was basically built around the concept). Phantom Hourglass and Spirit Tracks both were designed to make as full use of the DS as possible, even having items you had to blow on with the mic and Skyward Sword, obviously, is the best example of motion control in a game yet, I'd say.

The majority of Zelda games utilise technology available only on their given system and in such a competitive market do you honestly think Nintendo aren't going to follow suit and do the same for the Wii U? Yes, I do feel comfortable in saying this is the likely course of events. I think, deep down, you agree too.

As for the Gamepad replicating Motion+, wiggle your thumb and then wave your entire arm. Same thing? Of course not. Yes, a stick could be used to move a sword in the cardinal directions but it would not be the same and much more limited than full, free movement. The physical motion you perform is different, the specific direction the sword would move would be different and (crucially) it would not feel the same using a stick to do what we did in Skyward Sword. No game which controls a sword with a stick will feel the same as Skyward Sword did. That is because full motion and an analogue stick are not equatable.

Besides that, what of all the other things the Gamepad has that Motion+ lacks? Microphone, camera, 14 buttons (to the Wiimote and Nunchuck's 10) as well as the critical addition of the second screen and touch control? Even if we were to agree that dual analogue and Motion+ are comparable (which we don't and I would appeal that we both cease further discussion of that specific point since neither of us is going to convince the other to change their mind, thus rendering further discussion pointless) the Gamepad still has too many differences for two such different control schemes to operate the same game in a vaguely similar fashion.

I simply don't think it will be worth the hassle, is all.
 

JuicieJ

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I simply don't think it will be worth the hassle, is all.

And I think forcing players to use one control scheme is a waste of potential. Some people have said Nintendo should force motion controls on us. Same thing the other way around. We shouldn't be forced to NOT use motion controls. Multiple control schemes allows for a wider appeal by allowing players to choose how they want to play, and more appeal means more money (again, replay button).
 

TheRizardon

poog tnalp yknuhc
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Ohio
I think that they should take advantage of having multiple control schemes. Maybe make it so you can choose between using the Wii Motion controls, the Gamepad + Touch screen, or the Wii U Pro controller.
 

DarkestLink

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Oct 28, 2012
What do you even mean by these?

1) Skyward Sword's combat was pretty basic for the most part, but what made it fun was the quick reflexes involved. But changing it to just moving a control stick, you're really dumbing it down to a larger game of Rock Paper Scissors...except the difference is, you have 3 seconds to see what your opponent chose before doing it yourself.

2) This speaks for itself. This isn't Brawl where you can change certain buttons on certain controls to mean something. Motion + and the Gamepad are very different. Nintendo is going to have to jump hoops to pull this off. And, in the end, it just doesn't amount to much considering the time put into it.

3) ...Well here's an example. Imagine doing the Ghirahim fight with a control stick. Sure, you can do the swings right, but how do you draw his hand away? Don't even suggest the idea of "slow movements" on the control stick to move your sword. Because this is not only incredibly inconvenient (hated these levels in the N64) but also creates accuracy issues between swinging and moving the sword.

I rarely see people complain about the combat. It's almost always people saying they would rather use a normal controller than the Wii Remote.

Wanna go deeper on that and explain why they hated the Motion +?

The Wii U isn't leaving the Wii MotionPlus behind. There are already multiple games that use it as well as the other controllers, and there's even a game coming out next year (Pikmin 3) that has the MotionPlus and Nunchuk as its main control scheme. The Wii U is designed to be versatile with its options in controls. People seem to not understand that and think that the Wii Remote is dead because of the GamePad. It's not.

Well I haven't been keeping too much track, so I'll take you word for it.
 
I'd love multiple control choices, it'd make me feel a lot better about shelling out so much money for something based on a gimmick with the title of something i used to love.

Multiple control schemes would mean that the game wouldn't be catered to one way of playing and advertising the hardware's gimmick like SS. So here is hoping that ZeldaU has multiple control schemes and not catered to its current gen gimmicks.
 

Zorth

#Scoundrel
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Because the conformity to the other one caused my control scheme to feel awkward and poorly designed. That's why care.

Why are you so certain that just because Nintendo decides to go with more control schemes that it'll make your preferred way of playing poorly designed?
 

Cfrock

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Why are you so certain that just because Nintendo decides to go with more control schemes that it'll make your preferred way of playing poorly designed?

I can't speak for Regal or speak with absolute certainty but because the Gamepad and Wiimote/Nunchuck are so different in the features they posses, any control scheme designed to allow the use of the Wiimote/Nunchuck would curtail the use of Gamepad features the Wiimote/Nunchuck simply do not posses. Wiimote doesn't have a mic so they can't use the mic on the Gamepad. Wiimote doesn't have a touch screen so they can't use that on the Gamepad. Wiimote/Nunchuck has 4 buttons fewer, lacks a second screen and doesn't have a camera so to make the game work with the Wiimote/Nunchuck all of those features of the Gamepad would have to avoided as well. This would mean that ZeldaU wouldn't take advantage of the system it has been built on, basically meaning it will be a WiiU game designed for Wii. Which would be a bad thing, in my opinion.
 

Zorth

#Scoundrel
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
I can't speak for Regal or speak with absolute certainty but because the Gamepad and Wiimote/Nunchuck are so different in the features they posses, any control scheme designed to allow the use of the Wiimote/Nunchuck would curtail the use of Gamepad features the Wiimote/Nunchuck simply do not posses. Wiimote doesn't have a mic so they can't use the mic on the Gamepad. Wiimote doesn't have a touch screen so they can't use that on the Gamepad. Wiimote/Nunchuck has 4 buttons fewer, lacks a second screen and doesn't have a camera so to make the game work with the Wiimote/Nunchuck all of those features of the Gamepad would have to avoided as well. This would mean that ZeldaU wouldn't take advantage of the system it has been built on, basically meaning it will be a WiiU game designed for Wii. Which would be a bad thing, in my opinion.

That's true and I agree, however what I'm thinking of is that they use the Pro Controller (designed for Wii U) as an option to play, not just the Gamepad. Should've specified in my post sorry.
 

Ventus

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Don't take this the the wrong way, as I'm not trying to insult you, but that didn't make any sense to me at all. Could you explain that with better detail, please? Thanks.
I'm going to reply to this post with another quote:
I can't speak for Regal or speak with absolute certainty but because the Gamepad and Wiimote/Nunchuck are so different in the features they posses, any control scheme designed to allow the use of the Wiimote/Nunchuck would curtail the use of Gamepad features the Wiimote/Nunchuck simply do not posses. Wiimote doesn't have a mic so they can't use the mic on the Gamepad. Wiimote doesn't have a touch screen so they can't use that on the Gamepad. Wiimote/Nunchuck has 4 buttons fewer, lacks a second screen and doesn't have a camera so to make the game work with the Wiimote/Nunchuck all of those features of the Gamepad would have to avoided as well. This would mean that ZeldaU wouldn't take advantage of the system it has been built on, basically meaning it will be a WiiU game designed for Wii. Which would be a bad thing, in my opinion.

What C said is basically the whole point of my trying to exclude Motion Gaming from the Wii U. It'd be a waste of development time, and it'd also result in a Wii game with updated visuals, if anything. By including multiple control schemes that are so widely different to each other (imagine a game that allowed the use of WiiM+, regular Wiimote (if they even exist anymore lol), Wii U Pro, Wii CCP, GameCube, Gamepad and Gamepad + Touch screen controllers...all that for the sake of attracting more players huh? Sorry but the different control schemes would have to be heavily watered down to cater to any one method of controlling the game).

Going with JJ's method of making the right analog stick move the sword means you're trying to cater towards WM+ gameplay, but the WiiMotion+ is a thing of the past. Gaming has since reverted to the standard controller, and I personally intend to keep it that way as long as possible; Nintendo need not experiment with different types of gameplay anymore because they know what works and what doesn't among the large majority of fans.
 

DarkestLink

Darkest of all Dark Links
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
I'd love multiple control choices, it'd make me feel a lot better about shelling out so much money for something based on a gimmick with the title of something i used to love.

But what about Twilight Princess? Twilight Princess had two games with a different control choice. Now between TP's motion gaming and SS's motion gaming, which one felt like more of a gimmick?

Why are you so certain that just because Nintendo decides to go with more control schemes that it'll make your preferred way of playing poorly designed?

It depends. If TP is anything to go on, then if you prefer Nintendo's original method, you'll be fine. If you want to play things different, then yeah, it will feel forced, gimmicky, and weakly designed.
 

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