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ZD Members Vs. Mods Game Thread

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Justac00lguy

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Thareous said:
I even tried to stop two iffy bandwagons from going awry and nobody listened!
Yeah like I said earlier, you didn't really try. You commented on the bandwagon itself and how it was bad (or whatever) but you didn't really take any initiative to stop which just screams scummy. It's a tactic I've seen a lot of Mafia players use - they don't join any bandwagons but they don't really try to prevent them either as by offering an alternative they're going to look scummy. So they sit on the fence and try not to make any risky moves. If you look back at most games it's kind of funny how most Townies are the ones who make the mistakes as they're the ones who are more so desperate to make something happen, while Mafia are more so bothered about what others think of them.

As far I can see, all of the above is what you've done and top that off with a rather odd name claim and you see where I'm coming from. If I am wrong then so be it, but your actions in the game have done nothing to help your case.

EBWODP
Hmm just something I found; not necessarily anything concrete but interesting:

@icus seemed to question two particular lynches: Pendio's and my vote for Thar. Could be small subtle hints that she was potentially scared of what could happen to her scumbuds(?)

----
Pendio said:
If you were recruited into the Cult you would be stuck on the Cult's side for the rest of the game. If you revealed the Cult Leader to the Town as a Cultist, you would basically have no chance of winning the game yourself. So no, I do not believe you would do that.
I was actually looking for the win requirements for the Cult and it was rather ambiguous on the Wiki; it said they win if they recruit more than half of the players. Is that the only win condition for them, or can they win alongside Town?
 
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Pen

The game is on!
I was actually looking for the win requirements for the Cult and it was rather ambiguous on the Wiki; it said they win if they recruit more than half of the players. Is that the only win condition for them, or can they win alongside Town?

As far as I know, the standard win condition for the Cult is like the win condition for the Mafia; they win when they outnumber the other living players. Quite commonly, other third parties like the Survivor or the Serial Killer can simply have their victory along with the winning side if they survived the game, but not the Cult as far as I am concerned...
 

Ronin

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Yeah like I said earlier, you didn't really try. You commented on the bandwagon itself and how it was bad (or whatever) but you didn't really take any initiative to stop which just screams scummy. It's a tactic I've seen a lot of Mafia players use - they don't join any bandwagons but they don't really try to prevent them either as by offering an alternative they're going to look scummy. So they sit on the fence and try not to make any risky moves. If you look back at most games it's kind of funny how most Townies are the ones who make the mistakes as they're the ones who are more so desperate to make something happen, while Mafia are more so bothered about what others think of them.

Except that I did try to offer alternatives. Twice. And did I look scummy for it? Nope. So why am I looking scummy for it now? But again, nobody seemed to even take notice, even though I stressed that lynching Violet, an inactive player, and Keith, someone who simply reacted normally, were undeserving lynch targets. The sheer lack of willingness to listen to anyone is exactly why Town was hit so hard early on, and now it's bound to happen again, especially with the unyielding distrust toward anyone on the "list." Example:

"Oh, he isn't confirmed, and yet he spoke up. Must be scum."

More like must be scumhunting, but nobody takes the time to notice the difference.

As far I can see, all of the above is what you've done and top that off with a rather odd name claim and you see where I'm coming from. If I am wrong then so be it, but your actions in the game have done nothing to help your case.

Yeah, again I'm not so sure how you can keep calling my nameclaim "odd" whenever yours is just as odd. Axle and Mandy are both former mods who happen to be Town in a game where the members are against the mods. Try to wrap your head around that for once. They're tired of how the mods kept treating everyone else and decided to take a stand, most notably because, in this imaginary field we're in (emphasis on imaginary), they had once experienced how "corrupt" the mods were. So it's not at all unthinkable for former mods to team up with the members and use their talents for the greater good.

That's not to say that I suspect you, but that our nameclaims are not valid evidences to use against each other; we're on even ground when it comes to them.

@icus seemed to question two particular lynches: Pendio's and my vote for Thar. Could be small subtle hints that she was potentially scared of what could happen to her
scumbuds(?)

Nope. More like she was trying to spread suspicion toward us through subtle actions, especially given her "give up" attitude during the end of the Day; she was desperate to save herself. Gotta look at the bigger picture here.
 

Pen

The game is on!
So Thar, who do you propose we lynch today?

Also, I should probably add (before anyone votes), that since 4 is now a majority lynch, the Mafia will only need one "Town voter" to help them perform a lynch. So like yesterday, we should all wait with voting until we have agreed on a lynch candidate.
 

Justac00lguy

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Except that I did try to offer alternatives. Twice. And did I look scummy for it? Nope. So why am I looking scummy for it now? But again, nobody seemed to even take notice, even though I stressed that lynching Violet, an inactive player, and Keith, someone who simply reacted normally, were undeserving lynch targets. The sheer lack of willingness to listen to anyone is exactly why Town was hit so hard early on, and now it's bound to happen again, especially with the unyielding distrust toward anyone on the "list." Example:
It's so easy for you to do this as a Mafiso though. You know Keith and Violet aren't aligned with you, so you're going to try to look pro town by playing the "I told you so" card - it's the simplest Mafia tactic. Also you basically proved my point about not taking the initiative; you can't turn the tides by giving possible targets. Where was the move? Did you try and pressure any of those players? Did you try and bring up substantial evidence to help your case? You didn't, you just simply suggested where Town should go, you, yourself, didn't try and turn the tides, which makes me think you're on the outside looking in and hoping to look pro town.

Thareous said:
Yeah, again I'm not so sure how you can keep calling my nameclaim "odd" whenever yours is just as odd. Axle and Mandy are both former mods who happen to be Town in a game where the members are against the mods. Try to wrap your head around that for once. They're tired of how the mods kept treating everyone else and decided to take a stand, most notably because, in this imaginary field we're in (emphasis on imaginary), they had once experienced how "corrupt" the mods were. So it's not at all unthinkable for former mods to team up with the members and use their talents for the greater good.
I've already spoke up why I think it's odd, I feel like we're going to go around in circles as we simply think two different things in this case. Like I said, I don't see why Axle would go against the mods, this game so far has related to a lot of events on ZD, so Axle being anti mod just doesn't make any sense to me.

Thareous said:
That's not to say that I suspect you, but that our nameclaims are not valid evidences to use against each other; we're on even ground when it comes to them.
Except no one has really confirmed you. Heroine confirmed my target on day one. Could we be working together as scum? Possibly, but it's a long shot and you're fighting an uphill battle trying to go with that argument. Plus you tend to speak in obscurities a lot of the time, which makes it hard for me really trust you. Given that and the fact that I've seen you fake claim in this fashion before.



Thareous said:
Nope. More like she was trying to spread suspicion toward us through subtle actions, especially given her "give up" attitude during the end of the Day; she was desperate to save herself. Gotta look at the bigger picture here.
Except these quotes were ages ago. The first one was on Day One, the second on Day Two (if I recall).


EBWODP
Heroine I'd like to hear your thoughts on this day.
 
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I'm now comfortable saying this - my previous backup role has me 100% convinced that Big Octo is mafia. His playstyle and other's suspicions against him all point to one thing - he's definitely mafia, and is a safe lynch candidate for today.

The recruitment of Thareous failed last night. The role description specifically states that recruitments will fail if the target isn't town-alligned or 3rd party. This would seem to indicate that Thareous is indeed mafia as well.

Go_Dark_Link is scheduled to be the next recruitment candidate. Should recruitment once again fail, we will have our final piece of scum on radar, or we will have a nice non-scum confirmed.

But I see no reason why we wouldn't all vote off Big Octo today. I plan on doing it, and I hope that the rest of you concur.
 

Justac00lguy

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I'm now comfortable saying this - my previous backup role has me 100% convinced that Big Octo is mafia. His playstyle and other's suspicions against him all point to one thing - he's definitely mafia, and is a safe lynch candidate for today.

The recruitment of Thareous failed last night. The role description specifically states that recruitments will fail if the target isn't town-alligned or 3rd party. This would seem to indicate that Thareous is indeed mafia as well.

Go_Dark_Link is scheduled to be the next recruitment candidate. Should recruitment once again fail, we will have our final piece of scum on radar, or we will have a nice non-scum confirmed.

But I see no reason why we wouldn't all vote off Big Octo today. I plan on doing it, and I hope that the rest of you concur.
Hmm so you're Cult Leader like we suspected? I'm confused though, you mentioned "backup" too(?) could you please elaborate a bit?

Anyway, yeah I agree that Big Octo should be lynched today as I feel it's the safer option. Thar should definitely be our next target.

EBWODP
Oh Heroine, I completely forgot to ask you to target me last night. I just wanted to confirm you in a way for piece of mind.
 
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justac00lguy said:
I'm confused though, you mentioned "backup" too(?) could you please elaborate a bit?

All recruited members lose their roles upon being recruited. My time to shine didn't come until late in this game, and I hardly got beyond a single chance to utilize it; I prefer not to elaborate further.

What matters is that Big Octo is most definitely scum, and I strongly believe Thareous to also be scum based on the failure to recruit him.

JC, I think you can put your role to good use here - the mafia has to send someone to perform the kill. With Big Octo gone, and Thareous a likely scum candidate, that means you can take your pick of the remaining players you believe to be the final two pieces of scum (Thareous included) . All your results have to do is match up with the player that dies, correct?

Your results, combined with whether or not GDL is successfully recruited, could mean that this game is far from being the mafia-dominant performance we thought it was going to be.
 

Justac00lguy

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So you're not the Cult Leader? I assume you don't want to give away his/her identity, which I can see. Hmm, why can't you elaborate on apparent "evidence" though? I was pretty set on lynching Big Octo today and Thar the next, so your information coincides with my plans anyway, it's just that this information could nail it on the head.

Also, given what Pendio said, what are the Cult's win conditions?
 
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justac00lguy said:
So you're not the Cult Leader? I assume you don't want to give away his/her identity, which I can see. Hmm, why can't you elaborate on apparent "evidence" though? I was pretty set on lynching Big Octo today and Thar the next, so your information coincides with my plans anyway, it's just that this information could nail it on the head.

The evidence against Thareous is that he wasn't recruited.

The evidence against Big Octo is that he was my prime night target following Heroine getting me off your back two days ago. I was bored with the game until recently, when I thought I could maybe make a difference at last. My role changed that night though, and my power gone with it, although the results were still relayed.

justac00lguy said:
Also, given what Pendio said, what are the Cult's win conditions?

Pendio was right, as far as I can tell.
 

Justac00lguy

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I don't think there's any other way this game can swing, the moves are set in motion and the inevitable will happen anyway thus time is not a factor.

Vote: Big Octo
 
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justac00lguy said:
I don't think there's any other way this game can swing, the moves are set in motion and the inevitable will happen anyway thus time is not a factor.

I would like to get Heroine's and Pendio's opinions first. And ESPECIALLY Go_Dark_Link's opinion, before we end the day.
 

Ronin

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So Thar, who do you propose we lynch today?

I'd like to go with Vergo for the same reasons as stated Yesterday, but Big Octo seems like the most probable candidate. On top of that he had been coupled with Atticus several times and even went so far as to point out that she was "giving up."

It's so easy for you to do this as a Mafiso though. You know Keith and Violet aren't aligned with you, so you're going to try to look pro town by playing the "I told you so" card - it's the simplest Mafia tactic. Also you basically proved my point about not taking the initiative; you can't turn the tides by giving possible targets. Where was the move? Did you try and pressure any of those players? Did you try and bring up substantial evidence to help your case? You didn't, you just simply suggested where Town should go, you, yourself, didn't try and turn the tides, which makes me think you're on the outside looking in and hoping to look pro town.

Uh huh... And yet it should have been absurdly obvious that lynching an inactive player was a senseless, desperate move that any scum could have jumped on. And lynching Keith just for showing a reaction was equally frantic. It doesn't take being scum to rationalize that both of those movements were impulsive and had near zero basis, other than the participants convincing themselves that they were disposing of Mafia. Merely offering alternative lynches was more pro-Town than what they (namely, Pendio, Fig, and you) did those Days.

I've already spoke up why I think it's odd, I feel like we're going to go around in circles as we simply think two different things in this case. Like I said, I don't see why Axle would go against the mods, this game so far has related to a lot of events on ZD, so Axle being anti mod just doesn't make any sense to me.

The same could be said for Mandy then, too. I just don't see any possible way for her to be anti-Mafia. And that's the extent of this argument, even within the circumstances of an imaginary parody that hardly sticks close to the trust, save for the satirical characteristics of each member (the extensive vocabulary and Fate/Zero poster, for myself).

Except no one has really confirmed you. Heroine confirmed my target on day one. Could we be working together as scum? Possibly, but it's a long shot and you're fighting an uphill battle trying to go with that argument. Plus you tend to speak in obscurities a lot of the time, which makes it hard for me really trust you. Given that and the fact that I've seen you fake claim in this fashion before.

I just got finished saying that I did not suspect you. Meaning, at present. This instant. Right now. The chances of Heroine and Vergo working together are higher, and I was going to point out why at one point, but then Heroine claimed. That doesn't mean that she's really the Town Captain, though, because she hasn't done much during the game at all. And just because she "confirmed" you doesn't make her Town, either; like you said above, she could just be trying to appear pro-Town even though she's Mafia. She's done even less that I have during the Day and yet nobody has even bothered to examine her, aside from asking petty questions.

Except these quotes were ages ago. The first one was on Day One, the second on Day Two (if I recall).

Oh.

I'm now comfortable saying this - my previous backup role has me 100% convinced that Big Octo is mafia. His playstyle and other's suspicions against him all point to one thing - he's definitely mafia, and is a safe lynch candidate for today.

What backup role?

The recruitment of Thareous failed last night. The role description specifically states that recruitments will fail if the target isn't town-alligned or 3rd party. This would seem to indicate that Thareous is indeed mafia as well.

That's if you really are the Cult Leader. Was my name specifically mentioned after you got your results back, or were you simply told that the recruitment had failed? Because I targeted you last Night and your recruitment could have been placed on a completely different person, such as one of the three remaining scum.

I am the Town Redirector. My specialty is taking what a person said and reapplying it to them. On discussion board, such as this one, it would be easy for me to examine an argument and turn the tides against the poster who made an argument. So let's say that a mod makes a post in order to frame someone during the Night, and then I come online and see the post and point out in a very beastly manner how it's wrong according to the Rules, so they have to choose a different target.

That's just my own take on the role description that Draco provided, since I can't post the whole thing.

If Vergo is the Cult Leader, then his attempt at recruiting me failed because I redirected it to another target, who happened to be scum (sadly, there's no way I'd be able to know who). There's also the possibility that Vergo is lying and simply wants me out of the way because I pointed out his scummy movements from the end of Day 4.

EBBED

Darn it, guys, stop ninja'ing me...
 
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Thareous said:
What backup role?

Don't make me repeat myself.

Thareous said:
That's if you really are the Cult Leader.

Again, don't make me repeat myself. Look a few posts above you.

Thareous said:
Was my name specifically mentioned after you got your results back, or were you simply told that the recruitment had failed?

We were just told that the recruitment failed. But here's why this doesn't matter:

Thareous said:
Because I targeted you last Night and your recruitment could have been placed on a completely different person, such as one of the three remaining scum.

Targeting me with your "townie" power (a quick mafiascum search says this is easily a mafia role anyway, so this doesn't let you off the hook at all) wouldn't have done anything, so that's why I'm calling BS on this excuse in the first place. Look at what JC posted earlier with his night results - I didn't do a damn thing last night, because I don't have a single thing TO do.
 

Ronin

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Don't make me repeat myself.

Again, don't make me repeat myself. Look a few posts above you.

EBBED

Darn it, guys, stop ninja'ing me...

Blame the duration it took to make my previous post...

We were just told that the recruitment failed. But here's why this doesn't matter:

Targeting me with your "townie" power (a quick mafiascum search says this is easily a mafia role anyway, so this doesn't let you off the hook at all) wouldn't have done anything, so that's why I'm calling BS on this excuse in the first place. Look at what JC posted earlier with his night results - I didn't do a damn thing last night, because I don't have a single thing TO do.

Really? The Mafiascum I'm looking at says it can be any alignment. Near the bottom it just happens to elaborate on Mafia Redirectors, but that doesn't mean it's a Mafia-exclusive role.
 
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