ZD Members Vs. Mods Game Thread

[Go_Dark_Link]

I'd like to know why exactly you're suspicious of me, Viral.

Also, at this point it'd be really nice if Atticus and GDL popped in and had something to say about recent events, maybe offer up their opinion on a new lynch.

I'm online. I've been working on reading posts and making one since yesterday. It'll be up in a couple of minutes, I'm just finishing explaining my thoughts. Warning: its gonna be a wall of text.

EBWODP:
Alright, lets do this. I will start by saying I am not unvoting Fig, not yet. I’ll explain why in a moment. So now I’ll just jump right into what I could find on Pendio and Thar, which were the two I said I wanted to look more into. Thar first:

Thareous
Note: I did do a link-by-link analysis like with Fig and JC, but I didn’t know if it would be worth posting. I can if someone wants to see what posts I looked at.

Most of his first posts (as in other cases) were very much joking and baseless Day One substance. Apart from joking a bit with JC about Pendio being his scumbud, nothing caught my attention. Then he tells Fig and Stitch that jumping on each other on Day One for not good enough reasons was very foolish of them.
Then, on Day Two, he begins by saying how it seems the mafia are trying to frame Fig by killing Stitch. He also talks with Findemaxa about how suggesting they’re a power role isn’t a very good idea. Later, as events progress, he starts being more suspicious of Fig, even suggests musicfan should use his ability on him, but isn’t very convinced by this. He then talks about how Keith and Pendio both have good points against each other, but he isn’t sure who to trust. Finally, he talks about not liking to lynch inactives and recommends that the cop look into either JC or Fig.
Day Three he acknowledges findemaxa’s death and (in response to someone) says he doesn’t see why Innocent Child would be a dangerous role to mafia, ergo why they probably haven’t killed Kybyrian.

I want to make a comment here, on that one of Thareous’ posts which brought up my doubts not on him, but on Viral Maze, formerly Kybyrian. Now, musicfan confirmed Kyby as not mafia, and then Kyby claimed innocent child, but then everyone just sort of forgot about it and acknowledged him as town from the on… However, something worries me. The fact that the cult was able to enlist the serial killer as a cultist makes me see that they can probably enlist just about anyone, except perhaps not the mafia. So is it just me or doesn’t anyone else think it would be a bloody good plan to make a confirmed town member into a cultist? It’s basically a perfect opportunity, and everyone seems to be ignoring this or maybe hasn’t noticed.
So, Viral Maze, how I understand it your role is basically you can ask a mod to reveal your town allignment, right? Others might disagree, but considering this role is wide out in the open, I can’t see any sort of disadvantage to you taking the time now to ask a mod to confirm this. It would help me stop worrying about your allignment. Unless of course you no longer can, in which case…

Moving on, he doesn’t believe Keith looks very suspicious, and then he softclaims and defends his claim on being Axle. From what I’ve read, it would be a very risky move for mafia to claim a former mod and I don’t think they would take the risk. So, while it could be a double bluff on their part, I’m still inclined to believe this claim. Later it comes more to recent events with his suspicions on multiple people like Pendio, Fig, and JC. He FoS’s Fig a couple of times and isn’t very certain that his claim as vengeful townie is very plausible. He also suggests looking into Pendio and Big Octo and then votes for the extension.

To sum up my thoughts on him, I feel like he’s being too neutral so I’m unable to place him on one side or another of the spectrum. It isn’t like with JC who to me at times seemed like town and at others like mafia, but more like he doesn’t seem to be part of anything at the moment. I find this suspicious, but like I mentioned I’m also still inclined to believe his claim on Axle, especially since there weren’t any counterclaims on such a risky person to claim as. So for now, I think he isn’t a top priority for today.

Pendio
Day One for Pendio was pretty much joking and nothing else at first. Later on he mentions not thinking Fig’s playstyle matched other games he’s seen him playing as town, and comments on this once or twice. Then he votes on AvatarFlygon to have more chances of survival, and that’s that.
For the next day, he mentions town being more hurt by loss of Doc than that of Vig, and really stresses the fact that Musicfan should use his role TODAY, or else he would be killed at night and it would be wasted. He also says Fig would be a perfect target for this role. Then, after the whole music ordeal is done and Kyby is confirmed as not mafia, and then begins suspecting Keith for the way in which he reacted to being suggested as a possible desperado target. This goes on to Day 3, where he votes for Keith for Mido’s and his own suspicions. He also mentions agreeing on why the Innocent Child isn’t an important target for the mafia. Finally, he is another person who agrees that the cop should lay low, however he thinks they should claim ASAP as waiting any longer is risky. This is something I found very interesting, as it is different to what Fig and JC did.
Now, for Day Four, his attention shifts very majorly towards finding the cultists and cult leader. He all but stops looking for the mafia. Now, I agree finding the cult leader has its merits (as I will explain), but I find it suspicious that he took the first chance he could to direct the town away from the mafia and towards the cult. He’s mentioned he still finds Fig suspicious, after voting for the extension, then explains very thoroughly why he thinks Keith was recruited into the cult on Night 1. Then recently he’s claimed to be fine with both Fig and BOcto or Atticus being lynched, then unvoted Fig and voted BOcto, albeit extremly eagerly I must say. Almost suspiciously eagerly.

Right now, my thoughts on him are fairly clear: leaning mafia. At first I thought he had more chances of being town, particularly with him not telling the cop to wait as others had, but in more recent events I think this might have just been a smarter way of phrasing what JC and Fig did. He did mention the cop should wait, just reveal ASAP. However, with the mods’ recent confirmation of the mafia getting their cop targets back the same night, anything regarding these type of comments seems to be futile to look at now. So moving on from that, I think he isn’t town because of the way he’s been acting recently. He is all about the cult, and getting the cult, and lynching the cult, and while I do think our efforts should focus on that greatly now, why abandon our search for mafia? To me he is taking the easiest escape out of focus on the mafia, on his team, and leading us away. He seems perfectly fine with lynching ANYONE! Granted, as long as they’re suspected of being cultists and cult leaders, not mafia.
Also, Pendio, by reading your posts I’ve seen that you’ve constantly been suspicious of Fig, but very easily dropped your vote on him for one on BOcto. I understand you would do this if you thought BOcto to be a cultist, but is there any other reason towards the change of heart?


Alright, now I move away from the personal analysis of those two, and into my own suspicions on the grand scheme of things. I’ll start by addressing why I still vote for Fig. This vote is not because I think Fig is mafia anymore, but because I think Fig is the cult leader. Why? Firstly, let me tell you how the nights have been going for the cult. Granted, I don’t anything about how it works right now, but I’m going to assume they can recruit someone every night. Night 1? I agree with Pendio, they recruited Keith. It wouldn’t make sense to recruit him Night 2, seeing as he had come under a finger of suspicion from a couple of people.
Then, Night 2, I am pretty sure they recruited Kyby/Viral Maze. I’ve mentioned this above, and if he can get the mods to confirm his town-allignment this suspicion is obviously wrong, but I’m thinking the cult leader saw a chance to recruit a pretty much confirmed town member into their midst, and they took it.
Now the big one, Night 3, I think they recruited Vergo. Why they would do that, well for one I think he has some experience in the game so that’s a plus. Secondly, he seemed to be not suspicious of Keith and against Pendio’s views, which meant it would be a good idea to get him as a confirmed ally in their midst. If you don’t remember that, go back and read Day 3. He’s a strong player, and they would need someone like that, especially if Keith was going to get lynched. This is risky, I know, but he was the most logical choice. Many of the other people they could go were very much for lynching Keith, and/or against Fig, so when they recruited them it would be obvious to everyone else they’d had a big change of heart. So Vergo it was. Vergo, as you may remember from recently, took it upon himself to oppose the Fig lynch. He did this only when DekuNut, the double voter, had also voted for JC, so he knew now he had chance. The cult leader might not go as far as to defend his cultists and get suspicions on him, but it would make sense for a cultist to defend his cult leader.
There’s also the possibility that Vergo was recruited Night 2 and Viral Night 3, as the cult leader might have feared that the mafia would kill Kyby on Night 2. This does make plenty of sense, and would also add another explanation to why Vergo defended against the Keith lynch.

So, as things stand, I’m building up a suspicion triangle. One corner is town, and the other two mafia and cult. Here is my current list (from the list of remaining alive people):
The Unbanned (12):
Fig
Heavily leaning cult leader. Right at the cult corner of the triangle.
Big Octo
I haven’t looked at his posts, but (due to Pendio going after him) more likely not mafia. Somewhere between town and cult in the triangle.
Mido
Haven’t seen much of him at all, though I find it weird that when Pendio was mentioning the people who probably weren’t cultists, he mentioned him. Center of the triangle but closer to the mafia corner.
Vergo
Moving closer and closer to the cultist corner.
Heroine of Time
I have no idea on her. Center of the triangle.
Viral Maze
Far away from mafia side, but between town and cult, until he proves that he is the innocent child, leaning towards cult.
DekuNut
I’ve seen people’s posts on how he is not confirmed town, and I want to say that I thought of that from the start. Only reason why I find that harder to believe is due to the existence of the mafia cop. Between town and mafia corners, but more closely to town.
Thareous
After the analysis that I made, he stands somewhere in the middle but I think he is slightly closer to mafia than the other two corners.
Pendio
Leaning heavily towards the mafia corner.
justac00lguy
My suspicions haven’t changed much since my analysis of him, still somewhere in the middle. More town/mafia thant cult, but I think more town than mafia.
Atti-kiss
I’ve read people’s suspicions on her, and I would think if anything she’s between town and mafia (due to the other cultists already being assigned to people in my mind). However, I’d suggest keeping an eye on her.
Go_Dark_Link
I’m pretty sure he’s in the town corner.

So finally, what actions do I think the town has to make happen to win this game:
1. Lynch Fig. I’m not buying his roleclaim, and his role would either clear or confirm cultist Vergo in my eyes. If he is truly the cult leader, then a weight will be lifted off our shoulders.
2. Viral Maze, if you truly are the innocent child then make that modconfirm happen. If not, we can be certain you are now a cultist and schedule your lynch for sometime in the next days, though not tomorrow. Why?
3. Lynch Pendio tomorrow. I’m thinking he’s mafia, and so far he’s the only one that I really think is a candidate for this. If we manage to get the cult leader, then the cult falls in our list of priorities and lynching the mafia is definitely on the list. If he turns out mafia, then Mido is next.
4. Tonight. I remember JC said he was roleblocked, and someone else as well. Roleblocker, if you are town then I suggest going for either: Pendio, Mido, or Atticus. I think they are more likely candidates for being Mafia. Personally, I’d go for Mido since I think he might be the Godfather. However, this is just a hunch.
5. Heroine, you seem to have an investigative role. I don’t know if I can trust you or not. But, hopefully we can since your information might be useful. Do as you must, and I don’t know how your role might work, but again I suggest going for either someone of the above targets. It’s either them, or Vergo/Thareous, I think. That is if you go for someone you think is suspicious. If your role depends on going for someone you think is in danger, then I’d suggest DekuNut, JC, or myself.

So that’s everything in my mind at the moment. Hopefully I didn’t miss anything. Basically, my vote stays on Fig and if anyone has any comments on my thoughts, I’m here all day. If anyone wants me to post the link-to-post analysis of Thareous and/or Pendio, I’ll be glad to do so. I only didn’t because this post is long enough as it is.
We have to move now because we're running out of time, but to be honest, I think town still has a chance. Hopefully everything works out.

 

[Fig]

I think it's mainly due to multiple people mentioning him.

Also it's nice to see a Mafia Double Voter =)

Honestly I am getting weirded out by JC's thoughts. I mean sure that there is a chance that he is mafia, but who's to say that he is mafia? You are basically implying that Leslie screwed up the balance of the game even more. I can understand the mistake that was done with the Role Cop but having an unlimited Role Cop with priority and have a Double Voter would way too one-sided and I"m very certain Leslie wouldn't want the game to be that bad of balance. However if it is a Mafia Double Voter, then we are screwed.

 

[Mido]

Well, I found JC's reasons for suspecting Fig to be quite solid. And Fig was also one of the participants of the Violet lynch. To me that bandwagon was both surprising and reckless.

Hmm....I see. I do agree with the position on the Violet lynch, though.

Mido
Haven’t seen much of him at all, though I find it weird that when Pendio was mentioning the people who probably weren’t cultists, he mentioned him. Center of the triangle but closer to the mafia corner.

First of, your analysis is pretty solid, friend! For now, I do want to address your concerns about me since I have a few statements, although rather negative, to say.

I think the reason Pendio mentioned me in that context was as a result of our teaming up on Keith. I can see where you found the connection, anyhow. Now I'm worried at this point about the town's direction, and I'm honestly demoralized at this point. I don't feel like I have any solid input to offer, and I'm growing increasingly frustrated with myself. Regardless, my earlier concerns haven't swayed much, but I'm still thinking about these things. I still think JC may be our cult leader. While his efforts to scumhunt are commendable indeed, I guess I'm still worried about his isolation from the Keith situation. (I might be a bit too wrung out about this.) I've grown a bit wary of Pendio, primarily in respect to what you said, GDL, about his content manner towards lynches. I'm actually more intrigued by your Cult work here, especially in recruitment. It looks as if, by what you're saying, the power players were recruited. I guess that's all of the little I have to say....

 

[Sydney]

People keep saying they're suspicious of me and want to lynch me, but I've never seen them specify why I'm suspicious or what grounds they want to lynch me on. I've responded to several suspicions concerning ALIT's FoS, my activity, and my questions during Keith's lynch. If there's more you'd like me to address, please let me know.

 

[Ronin]

I don't trust you.

And... Is this the actual hunch, or just an impassive statement? You've already made it clear that you don't trust me, so what about the hunch?

No, Avatar got lynched on Day One. Perhaps you thinking more on the argument between Stitch and Fig because that was the main talking point on Day One. We actually acknowledged, that on night one (when Stitch died), that it could have been a move executed to frame Fig. In fact at the time this cleared up some of my original suspicions on him.

So given that this Role Cop has more than one shot, it's entirely possible he/she could have targeted Fig on night one.

Right. I forgot how that played out.

The notion that this is "scummy", which is what you're sort of alluding to, is completely ridiculous in my eyes. Of course I'm going to eliminate myself from why equation as I'm speaking from my perspective. Why would I include myself as suspicious when I'm speaking from my point of view? Yes I see what you're saying, but I never said that I shouldn't be a part of this suspicious looking lynch, hell, I was one of the main candidates to be lynched yesterday (for reasons I'm still quite baffled by). As I was saying, I was speaking from my own perspective, so naturally I'd eliminate myself. Here's a better way to explain it: You're looking at the people left in the game (let's say there's 6), you would take away yourself from that list, right, because you know your alignment. That's basically what I was doing.

Going by personal perspectives is fine in this case; the part that I didn't deem credible was claiming to know that you were Town, because it felt like you were trying to impress that knowledge on everyone, act as if it were an absolute certainty. While I'd considered that you were simply excluding yourself, the usage of the words "I know I'm Town" carried a hefty insinuation that you shouldn't be examined, and that concerned me. Alternatively, you could have just been saying that to throw others off your trail as you examined Pendio and Atticus.

Anyway what else do I have to do to convince most people that I'm Town? Heroine confirmed I told the truth on Night One (unless she's lying, which I doubt), now of course it could have been a lucky guess, but you're fighting against the odds here.

Heroine's role still hasn't been verified, so by extension her word doesn't substantiate your innocence either. If she was willing to shed more light on her role, then I might believe it, but for all we know she could be the Mafia Role Cop operating under the guise of a Townie who's protecting her scumbud. And although you suspected her for a time (throughout Day 2?) you never really acted on that suspicion, other than stating your suspicion.

Also Thar, are you going to make a decisive choice today? I see you a lot of the time sitting sitting on the fence during main topics while randomly voting others who aren't involved in said topic (e.g Heroine). Seems to me as if you're staying active, but choosing not to really get your hands dirty.

I've been sort of tempted to vote for you a number of times, but then you kept going to greater lengths to lead everyone, which alleviated my reservations somewhat. However, in hindsight parts of your track record have been notably anti-Town: joining Fig on the Violet lynch and more recently suddenly presuming DekuNut to be a Mafia Double-Voter. Lesser deeds are softclaiming almost immediately after I did and flipflopping on your suspects throughout the Day phases, which aren't pure scummy acts but present implications of being such.

Vote: justac00lguy

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

Vote: justac00lguy

I'm going to have to ask that you rethink that. JC's made some moves that don't come off too well this game, but unless him and Heroine are both scum, and they've both pulled off some wicked fake-claiming simultaneously, I seriously doubt they're mafia. In fact, this move is going to make me even more weary of you than I already am if you go through with it. We can't afford to lose our tracker at this stage in the game.

Unless JC's already been recruited by the cult, which is a real possibility for any of us, his death isn't going to do much. I'm actually prepared to put a vote on Fig to stop this if the votes don't change.

Big Octo plays a careful game, which is very reminiscent of his stellar SK performance in MM mafia. I seriously doubt JC is scum at this stage, and I don't think Fig is likely to be one either (although, GDL's analysis on him as the Cult Leader is intriguing... I'm going to have to think about this more, as I've approached all of this so far just through the lens of hunting just scum). I think he would be better choice than Fig, and would certainly be a better choice than JC.

EBWOPD

If I could get another time on when the day ends, that'd be great.

 

[Go_Dark_Link]

I think the reason Pendio mentioned me in that context was as a result of our teaming up on Keith. I can see where you found the connection, anyhow. Now I'm worried at this point about the town's direction, and I'm honestly demoralized at this point. I don't feel like I have any solid input to offer, and I'm growing increasingly frustrated with myself. Regardless, my earlier concerns haven't swayed much, but I'm still thinking about these things. I still think JC may be our cult leader. While his efforts to scumhunt are commendable indeed, I guess I'm still worried about his isolation from the Keith situation. (I might be a bit too wrung out about this.) I've grown a bit wary of Pendio, primarily in respect to what you said, GDL, about his content manner towards lynches. I'm actually more intrigued by your Cult work here, especially in recruitment. It looks as if, by what you're saying, the power players were recruited. I guess that's all of the little I have to say....

I understand where you're coming from, and I must say what you say does reduce my suspicions on you some. There is a possibility of JC being the cult leader, but for now we can only wait and see. I don't think that's true, but if that were true, then I think many of my suspicions would change, although I feel the one on Pendio would remain. And yes, it does seem like the cult was able to recruit power roles, first the SK and then, according to what I suspect, the Innocent Child. This makes me fearful, after all whose to say they can't or didn't recruit DekuNut as well? However, I'm going off of a hope that they didn't. You said you didn't feel that you had much to say, however, I would ask of you to say what you think would be our best course of action over the next days going from whatever results of today. I'm not sure where the votes stand, but I think JC might be getting lynched? If, say, he turns out innocent, who would you suspect tomorrow?

Thareous, same question, if JC turns out to be innocent, what would you think the town should do tomorrow? And if he turns out guilty?

I ask this because I think if the town hopes to win this yet, we need to have a solid plan to minimize any further casualties.

 

[Ronin]

I'm going to have to ask that you rethink that. JC's made some moves that don't come off too well this game, but unless him and Heroine are both scum, and they've both pulled off some wicked fake-claiming simultaneously, I seriously doubt they're mafia. In fact, this move is going to make me even more weary of you than I already am if you go through with it. We can't afford to lose our tracker at this stage in the game.

Assuming he is the Tracker, but whatever. This can be resolved during the next Day phase; it'd be unfair to stick with a vote almost at the last minute, anyhow.

Unvote

But come to think of it, Vergo, you've been pretty neutral this game until now. Losing the Tracker is one thing, but voting for someone at one point and then sticking your neck out for them later on is another circumstance completely. Why the change of heart?

If I could get another time on when the day ends, that'd be great.

In about an hour, I believe. No telling when the lynch scene will be up.

Thareous, same question, if JC turns out to be innocent, what would you think the town should do tomorrow? And if he turns out guilty?

I don't even know how Justa can be proven innocent unless he ends up dying Tonight, but my guess is that Tomorrow I'll be put under inspection, alongside a few others (Pendio, Big Octo, Atticus, and possibly Fig).

 

[DekuNut]

This makes me fearful, after all whose to say they can't or didn't recruit DekuNut as well?

I think that my role will be lost if I become a mentee. Keith was an SK-turned-mentee, so my double-voting powers should be telltale enough.

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

But come to think of it, Vergo, you've been pretty neutral this game until now. Losing the Tracker is one thing, but voting for someone at one point and then sticking your neck out for them later on is another circumstance completely. Why the change of heart?

Losing the tracker is everything. I've actually held some strong positions this game, despite my lack-luster activity before the end of this day. I know JC is a smart guy, and I thought I was putting the puzzle pieces together well enough to go out on a limb and make a good lynch, especially given that I was hesitant about the Fig bandwagon since the start. I know JC is lying when he says that he can't pull off fake claims, and I know it's perfectly possible he could be doing it now. But after the conversations we had, and Heroine riding in on a white horse with her hair flowing in the wind, I think this is a really, really stupid lynch. If JC is lying, and Mandy/tracker are in fact factors in this game, where's the counter-claim? On top of that, we have Heroine's claims that act in the same manner.

I may be playing the idiot here, and I may kick myself later for this, but I believe both of them right now. The only way the town is going to win this game is by doing what happened from the start in Pirates 2 - start claiming, and start really, really scum hunting. We need mafia to be forced to pick their poison, and we absolutely cannot afford to take away one piece of poison from them by lynching a claim that's actually somewhat backed up. I was really, really hoping we'd make progress and find someone else other than Fig or JC, it looks like that isn't going to happen (the lack of activity and voting here astounds me). But yes, I've done a complete 180 here, because backed-up claims mean something when we're at the disadvantage that we're at now. I'd rather Fig die than JC.

EBWODP

DekuNut, do you really think JC is still scum at this point? After the lack of a counter-claim and Heroine's results? Like I said at the beginning, you're holding nearly all the leverage here, so please think long and hard about this before you make a choice.

 

[Go_Dark_Link]

I think that my role will be lost if I become a mentee. Keith was an SK-turned-mentee, so my double-voting powers should be telltale enough.

Very true, I hadn't thought of that.

 

[Ronin]

Very well, I'll go along with you on those points, Vergo. The main thing that set off my determination to vote for Justa was his unseemly assumption that DekuNut was a Mafia Double-Voter. Seemed rather out of place from his typical playstyle; hence why my misgivings had a spike.

If it comes down to it Tomorrow, then I'll do a full roleclaim, but someone else might want to take that opportunity (would be nice if Heroine would claim to shed light on her role), so I'll wait a bit just in case.

 

[Heroine of Time]

You know, suddenly I understand why lynching Fig might be a good idea. Him being the Cult Leader makes a lot of sense. His frustration over the game being unfair toward the mafia combined with all the other scummy points everyone has brought up and the Vengeful claim make me a bit more confident in this lynch. I wasn't convinced before because he didn't seem like mafia to me, but he could definitely be a part of the cult.

On the other hand, I strongly recommend looking into Pendio in the next day. I don't trust him one bit.

Now, I think at the current moment, JC has the most votes on him, because Pendio unvoted him. DekuNut, I still don't quite understand why you won't unvote. I understand that you don't think Fig is scum, but you do think that JC is? Even though I've told you I have matching results, and he's actually claimed, unlike Fig? I really want you to unvote, but we only have 10 or so minutes left, so...

Or other option is for someone to vote for Fig.

EBWODP
Yeah, Fig being the Cult Leader makes a TON of sense to me now. That's why the mafia would want him gone, and why he'd be mad about a Role Cop. There's very little reason for him to be upset about a Role Cop if he was Vengeful, as it's far less likely that the mafia would go after him.

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

Or other option is for someone to vote for Fig.

Yeah, 10 minutes. But let's talk about the elephant in the room.

On the off chance that Fig is actually the vengeful townie, someone is going to die if we go through with this. And none of us want to take that chance. Anyone feel like taking the risk?

 

[Heroine of Time]

Guys.

Bad news. The day is over. It ended at 12 PM on June 15th. It ended earlier this afternoon.

That means we got a final tally of 3 votes for JC and 3 votes for Fig.