Xenoblade Chronicles Mafia: Destructive Reawakening

[Diego]

At the same time, if we wait the extra day and they're town, we won't kill someone without them fighting back. Some of these people can be great help when they're active. While I don't enjoy inactivity, if it means having good players come to help Day 2, then so be it. Go ahead and keep going against them. I don't care. All I'm saying is I'm not helping.

Okay.
You can do that, we're cool. I respect that line of thought. It clearly has... paid off.

I still think you can be useful if you're town... but be aware. If I make it to the end game, chances are that if you're not with me, you will be against me.

 

[DekuNut]

The point of Day 1 inactive lynching is that if we keep it up it sets a standard that people are expected to play Mafia if they sign up. I've had a look at the Mafia board here and when you sort the threads by most active there's a definite trend - newer games are quieter (there's only a couple from the past year in the top 40 games) and the first few games are actually way up there in posts.

What it suggests to me (along with some comments that people have been making in the thread) is that there was an active Mafia community and then either a) activity got punished in-thread by people who focused on killing leaders and people who talked too much or b) the rules of inactivity were too lax so there were a bunch of inactives in every game.

i.e.

I see where you're coming from. I admit, I've only been playing for a year and a half, so this type of thing is really what I've known. I'd gladly enjoy more active mafia games, but my point is that Day One is too early to determine who's inactive and who isn't.

Okay.
You can do that, we're cool. I respect that line of thought. It clearly has... paid off.

I still think you can be useful if you're town... but be aware. If I make it to the end game, chances are that if you're not with me, you will be against me.

Very well. If you gain my trust, then I'll stand with you. If not, then let's hope that the other is mafia.

 

[DekuNut]

Also, the "not helping" bit was just about inactive Day 1 lynches. If you come up with inactive lynches later, or a lynch that makes sense to me, then I will join you in those.

 

[Spiritual Mask Salesman]

Unvote

Vote: A Link in Time

I guess I'll jump in to see if he'll post.

I also was going to say we should let Musicfan slip by, and this is why. Inevitably he has to be Lynched in the coming night sequence with his claims to be A Townie special Role. If he is Mafia he'll still have to be lynched in the night anyway because we all are expecting it. If he slips by, and maybe if he does we can interrogate him to see if he'll rat out his accomplices (assuming he is Mafia). So letting him by is a good strategic move. Also if he randomly gets Lynched in this latter half of the day we'll know that we were right about him maybe being Mafia (then again I doubt the mafia would be gullible enough to do that, it'd give us a idea on who a few Mafiosos are).

 

[Diego]

Fair enough.
I don't like to create "ideology factions". It sucks and it shredds the Town in fear and paranoia. I'm willing to trust in anyone who speaks up and mantains a constant level of (useful) activity... even if their vision and way to play is not my favourite. That doesn't means that if we caught someone lying we shouldn't punish, by no means. Just that we need to encourage this. Activity is the base of any solid town.

I just decided to take "the lead" here, because I saw a Day One going to waste. This is not the message I want to give to the Mafia. I want them to know that we will not go quietly into the first night.

I also was going to say we should let Musicfan slip by, and this is why. Inevitably he has to be Lynched in the coming night sequence with his claims to be A Townie special Role. If he is Mafia he'll still have to be lynched in the night anyway because we all are expecting it. If he slips by, and maybe if he does we can interrogate him to see if he'll rat out his accomplices (assuming he is Mafia). So letting him by is a good strategic move. Also if he randomly gets Lynched in this latter half of the day we'll know that we were right about him maybe being Mafia (then again I doubt the mafia would be gullible enough to do that, it'd give us a idea on who a few Mafiosos are).

The only reason I left him was because I'm not risking the chance of loosing a possible doctor/rolblocker, two roles that can potentially stop a kill from happening.
And if he ends up as a proven Mafia, then we insta-lynch. Mafia members NEVER help the town once they are outed, and leaving them alive, not only make us waste time, but also can be used as a weapon for confussion. The guys still wants the Mafia to win, no matter what he might be saying.
Lynch all Liars.
Always

 

[DekuNut]

Fair enough.
I don't like to create "ideology factions". It sucks and it shredds the Town in fear and paranoia. I'm willing to trust in anyone who speaks up and mantains a constant level of (useful) activity... even if their vision and way to play is not my favourite. That doesn't means that if we caught someone lying we shouldn't punish, by no means. Just that we need to encourage this. Activity is the base of any solid town.

I just decided to take "the lead" here, because I saw a Day One going to waste. This is not the message I want to give to the Mafia. I want them to know that we will not go quietly into the first night.

Fair enough. Let's end these arguments now, and see what we can do.

Lynch all Liars.
Always

Never a question.

According to JC, who plays Mafia often, this isn't exactly normal for Dekunut.

When did JC say this? In the post he never said that it was abnormal for me, just that I switched around how I was doing things from the start of the day.

 

[Justac00lguy]

Are you guys voting purely for pressure? If so I have a question since we're close to the end now:

What if Alit didn't post? Would you guys lynch an inactive purely on the basis of being inactive? Even though I'm fine with pressure votes to bring out activity, I don't believe in lynching an inactive on no basis whatsoever. Alit not posting is annoying, and he does it a lot as well, but I still don't think that's enough for a lynch.

Lynching inactives is generally a tactic used late-game or when Mafia are potentially hiding due to low numbers. Day One though is something I'm highly against and it's an easy way out were anyone can just justify their actions as "well he was inactive, what harm is it going to do?". The thing that bothers me about this bandwagon is that I see Mafia just jumping on and if Alit is lynched then we have no way to use the lynch against anyone.

@Spiritual Mask Salesman You seem to flip flopping a lot, is this because you're new to Mafia? Only reason I'm curious is that it's kind of making me think you're just going with the flow and using other people's reasonings. It can be perceived as scummy behaviour.

 

[Diego]

Alit isn't inactive, though. She's passive and intentionally lying low. He posted a few times, I think. Once to cast a random vote on Rosa, then to make fun of my name (seriously, there was nothing more in that post) and a few more times just for the lulz of it.
As I said, I'm not okay with that. Is either that, or a different lynch. It's not necesary scummy behaviour, but it is extremely Anti-Town.
And I'm not having that. I never vote on someone unless I want to see them dead. And I want to see Alit dead

 

[Rosa Luxemburg]

While I enjoy activity as much as the next guy, having someone like that who's both aggressive and looking to take charge makes me uneasy. Similar to what Rosa said, I've seen towns tear each other apart because a scum got in charge. I don't want to chance that, especially with someone I can't read.

Slight correction: I've seen towns tear each other apart in that they tear themselves a part.

I played in a Discworld themed game (run by Cody) in which the town was so paranoid over our prominent players and people who were active and trying to get others to step up and participate, that no one trusted each other. Townies were consistently lynched at the end of the day. People were afraid to speak up because anything that was seen as leading the town was immediately seen as a scummy move. The townies were destroyed and in the following day it was only different mafia factions and a survivor participating.

Yes, you can't automatically trust people. But the thing is, in addition to reading mafia members you need to be able to read people for town too. This is especially critical for protective roles who will need to be reading people to learn who they should be protecting from death. Which requires you to be able to read someone and decide that they're town and that the mafia sees them as a viable target. People are jumping on Diego for taking the reins Day 1 and trying to direct the town. That's incredibly anti-town and it punishes activity.

Let's even assume for the sake of argument Diego is mafia. We lynch him today and he flips scum. You know what? That doesn't change the fact that he has been acting more pro-town than half the people in the game. He's managed to stir up activity and now we seem to be getting the impression from regular ZDers that DekuNut and JC aren't exactly being consistent with how they normally play. This doesn't mean they're scum, but it does mean we're presenting something new to the game and people are going to have to adapt to it.

Being a good townie player doesn't mean you discredit everyone and write them off. Working together and taking a leap of faith is part of it too. I recently finished GMing a game in which one of our townie players basically allied themselves with the two godfathers and ultimately through the efforts of the town (and protective roles who read said player as town and protected him) brought them to victory.

It is critical that the town works together. It's critical that everyone voices their opinion and what they want to see done. This means having original thoughts and expressing them. People who just don't do anything on Day 1 or folks like musicfan who make a couple of short, choppy posts are not contributing to the game. Considering a number of days have passed I'm going to keep in mind players who want to excuse their inactivity with the Day 1 Shenanigans excuse. Any excuse to not be active or voice your thoughts is scummy.

 

[Rosa Luxemburg]

ALIT posted once, and only to answer a question of mine on the first page. No announcement of inactivity or being busy (as some other relatively inactive players have done). At this point I see him as the best lynch. I doubt he'll be replaced for inactivity since ZD is very lenient with activity and even if he does flip green, he's an inactive player and probably won't be useful to us anyway. For the first few days the town can generally make mistakes when it comes to lynching since we're nowhere near lylo.

 

[Diego]

Yep, Rosa you're right. I confused Spaceballs with ALit for... some reason (I think because of the space helmets)
This is ALiT only post in 5 DAYS OF GAME

@Rosa Luxemburg Game mods tends to be pretty lenient around here. People are only really replaced if they're completely absent from the game or claim they'll post something of substance in the future without actually doing so.

A reply for a question. Now, if games here where like in the places where I play, with 24 hours Day cycles, I would forgive this. But 5 days? No... just no

 

[Musicfan]

There is a curve of ALiT activity virtually none day one and more and more as the day goes on.

 

[Musicfan]

Also unvote
vote Mask salesmen.

Igmeoy Diego

 

[Diego]

Okay, allow me to translate for the rest of the human players: There's a curve in ALiT's activity. He never posts in any Day 1, but then she posts more as the days passes.
Awesome. We already knew that, thanks.
If he wants to stay alive, then he better spikes that activity curve, or else I'm extremely willing to send him to the graveyard with a banner on his cold body saying: "I should have talked in all this seven days"

And thanks for having your eye on me. At least is the only useful thing you seem to be able to provide me. Your eye.

 

[Justac00lguy]

I agree with you that I think he's being inactive intentionally because it's what he does in nearly every Mafia game. Though I'm not using that as some sort of justification, just for reference. It's annoying, yes, but I heavily disagree with lynching an inactive on Day One. It's an easy way out.

Why would he have no reason to speak up if he was Mafia? Day One is like the prime opportunity for Mafia to try and push their agenda and manipulate play without contradicting themselves, having their past actions catch them up etc. They can always use it as a Day One excuse which I've seen happen many times. Just because someone is lying low, it doesn't necessarily mean they're Mafia hiding. **** maybe I'm wrong and he's Mafia with this plot to hide that's not speaking up despite being called out multiple times.

Can I ask you guys a question on a hypothetical scenario through? You clearly have stated that you will punish inactivity and lynch people who won't post or are hiding, so let's say you lynch three Townies In a row who were inactive, would you carry on that plan the next day?