Breath of the Wild What You Could Go Without in ZeldaU

[Dukusword]

I could do without repeated boss battles (unless it is something like OOT 3D where it's like a game)

And every time you turn on your game when you get a rupee or bug you won't have to see the message every time.

 

[JuicieJ]

I could do without repeated boss battles

If the boss battles were exactly the same, I could understand that, but what's wrong with bosses that have multiple elements added onto and change in future fights so that they're effectively different?

 

[Hanyou]

Too much forced exposition. I think Ocarina of Time had the perfect number of cutscenes.

I find backstory interesting, but I'd rather see it in books and optional conversations. They should trim the exposition to what is necessary, then give players the option of finding out more.

Also, now that we have Sheikah stones and other such mechanisms, tutorials are completely worthless. No more forced tutorials.

Every Zelda title before Majora's Mask had great forward momentum. I want to constantly feel like I'm propelling forward, and if I get stuck, it's my own fault. I don't want to feel like I'm sitting through the senate scenes in the Star Wars prequels every time a new section of the overworld opens. It's boring, useless, and rarely carries much relevance to the plot.

 

[JuicieJ]

Also, now that we have Sheikah stones and other such mechanisms, tutorials are completely worthless. No more forced tutorials.

Tutorials are a necessary thing. The trick is to have them flow with the rest of the game design so that they don't feel like tutorials.

 

[Ventus]

Tutorials are a necessary thing. The trick is to have them flow with the rest of the game design so that they don't feel like tutorials.

Tutorials aren't necessary unless the player of the game is completely new to video gaming and the UI/HUD. And even then, there's no reason to force them upon people. Rather than make us go through the motions, Zelda would benefit if it did tutorials like Kingdom Hearts does -- giving us small "pamphlets" with somewhat detailed pictures, text and what not that is very easily skipped with the touch of a button.

 

[Hanyou]

Tutorials are a necessary thing. The trick is to have them flow with the rest of the game design so that they don't feel like tutorials.

You're right.

I suppose when I use the word "tutorial," I use it in the modern sense. I bought Harvest Moon: A New Beginning recently. I've been looking forward to it for a long time, but completely lost my will to play it after I was told to push the joystick forward to move forward. Really?

I feel like recent Zelda titles have forced these awful sorts of tutorials on us. I love Skyward Sword, but I'm sick of constantly being besieged by exposition, tutorial, exposition, every time I just want to play the damn game. I suspect it would be 10 hours shorter if not for the constant obnoxious, patronizing tutorials and plot development.

Contrast this with Ocarina of Time. Kokiri Forest is full of optional tutorials, but also acts as a safe virtual playground so you can learn the ropes yourself. And while Navi interjects a few time while you're progressing through the Deku Tree, she never takes too long doing so. By the time you're on Hyrule field an hour or so into the game, you're done. The rest of the tutorials let you learn things yourself.

A Link to the Past had less hand-holding and was arguably even more successful in simply leaving the player alone.

I don't think of integrated learning as a tutorial--it's just an organic part of the game to me.

 

[JuicieJ]

Tutorials aren't necessary

Yes they are. There will always be multiple people new to any franchise that need to learn the ropes. Learning the ropes can flow with the rest of the game design, though, like tutorial dungeons or the Faron Woods in Skyward Sword.

I feel like recent Zelda titles have forced these awful sorts of tutorials on us. I love Skyward Sword, but I'm sick of constantly being besieged by exposition, tutorial, exposition, every time I just want to play the damn game. I suspect it would be 10 hours shorter if not for the constant obnoxious, patronizing tutorials and plot development.

Skyward Sword definitely took a bit too long to get going, but most of its tutorial portions in Skyloft were optional, and it had a much better intro than the GameCube games did. Especially The Wind Waker. "Oh, something important just happened? Lol, let's interrupt the flow of the game by forcing Link to do a sword training exercise that lasts for 5 minutes."

 

[Dukusword]

If the boss battles were exactly the same, I could understand that, but what's wrong with bosses that have multiple elements added onto and change in future fights so that they're effectively different?

I mean as temple bosses, I would like the bosses to be different, I would be perfectly fine with fighting the boss again with more elements if it wasn't another temple boss.

 

[JuicieJ]

I refer you to Minecraft. A game where (unless it's changed recently, haven't played it in a while) there is absolutely no tutorial given. Ever... Yet that has achieved huge popularity over recent years. Tutorials are not NEEDED. But no doubt there are some fans out there who appreciate them. Just as some would have appreciated a tutorial in Minecraft.

Yes, because tutorials are what's needed for a game to be popular. That's totally what I was saying.

 

[Hanyou]

Skyward Sword definitely took a bit too long to get going, but most of its tutorial portions in Skyloft were optional, and it had a much better intro than the GameCube games did. Especially The Wind Waker. "Oh, something important just happened? Lol, let's interrupt the flow of the game by forcing Link to do a sword training exercise that lasts for 5 minutes."

The Wind Waker, like Majora's Mask before it, was too slow at the start, but it's far better than either of its console sequels in that respect, as you jump into the action much more quickly.

Remember, my problem isn't solely the tutorials; it's the combination of tutorials and forced exposition, which minimize your control of the character. The Wind Waker had that for a while, but ultimately, you charged off to rescue your sister within about 15 minutes. I could be wrong, but I believe 15 minutes after I booted up Skyward Sword, I was still on the school grounds. Not to mention, the exposition was slow--it took me between 30 minutes and an hour to even get to the surface, if I recall, and even then, there was more forced exposition.

I hate the Forbidden Fortress, but at least I'm actually in full control of my character for a long time by then.

In this respect, Skyward Sword may be the worst, because I don't remember even Twilight Princess being quite so slow.

 

[JuicieJ]

The Wind Waker, like Majora's Mask before it, was too slow at the start, but it's far better than either of its console sequels in that respect, as you jump into the action much more quickly.

Remember, my problem isn't solely the tutorials; it's the combination of tutorials and forced exposition, which minimize your control of the character. The Wind Waker had that for a while, but ultimately, you charged off to rescue your sister within about 15 minutes. I could be wrong, but I believe 15 minutes after I booted up Skyward Sword, I was still on the school grounds. Not to mention, the exposition was slow--it took me between 30 minutes and an hour to even get to the surface, if I recall, and even then, there was more forced exposition.

I hate the Forbidden Fortress, but at least I'm actually in full control of my character for a long time by then.

In this respect, Skyward Sword may be the worst, because I don't remember even Twilight Princess being quite so slow.

I can actually get to the surface in around 30 minutes, and that's about how long it takes to get past the Forsaken Fortress, which is really bland (unlike the Faron Woods), so...

The problem is the core design. Structurally, both TWW and SS have flawed intros, but SS's flow never breaks up, unlike TWW's. SS's flow is kind of rough while in Skyloft, but at least it's not broken. Hell, even TP's intro's flow wasn't broken. SS's intro also has great cutscenes along with good gameplay going for it, whereas TWW's... has neither. It's really not a contest. SS may not have the best of intros, but it has a lot going for it, which is just something that can't be said about TWW's.

 

[Cfrock]

Well this went off topic.

Anyway, I thought of something else I can do without. I can do without another slingshot that gets replaced by a Bow. The only time having both items in a Zelda game worked was Ocarina of Time and only because they forbade you from using one when you were a child and vice versa. The two items work in the same way only one has more range and more power. Once you get the Bow in Twilight Princess the Slingshot is abandoned and the same goes for Skyward Sword, with that game explicitly telling you the Bow is superior to the Slingshot.

It's just a waste of an item slot, really. Skyward Sword only has the 8 Items in the inventory and one of those spaces is useless after the Sandship. So yeah, I could go without having that happen again, really.

 

[Ventus]

Anyway, I thought of something else I can do without. I can do without another slingshot that gets replaced by a Bow. T

Well, there are ways to circumvent this without actually removing one item or the other from the game. I myself hated that problem and preferred the OoT style of things, but even so...NIntendo could do the following things:

1) Return to the OoT style of item usage wherein certain item categories are restricted at certain points in the game. [sounds restrictive but actually works well imo]
2) Have certain switches physically break from an Arrow shot, or not activate after a Slingshot pellet hits them [I believe this worked in Twilight Princess at least on the enemy side -- I don't recall being able to defeat Beamos with the Slingshot]
3) Make more enemies resilient to arrows (like a keen eye) but unsuspecting to the slower Slingshot Pellet [doesn't make much sense when you consider they have a keen eye, but hey...things work like this in real life]

 

[Garo Master]

Anything that was in SS. So do away with the disgusting art style, the annoying characters, the spotty controls, the linear overworld, the item upgrade system, the action-RPG bits, just get rid of all of that.