Visible IVs/EVs: Yes or No?

[TheRizardon]

I think IVs and Evs should become visible.

It would be great to not have to fly to that random NPC to learn the IV's of your pokemon. It wouldn't even be that hard to make visible. They could just slap it under the normal pokemon stats, or have a whole new page for it that is like the stat page.

 

[Deeds]

Exactly. They're an important game mechanic that nobody would ever pick up on if they hadn't looked it up online or been told of it elsewhere.

This is simply because you're not meant to know about them... They're a code in the game that effectively needs to remain hidden, it's just there formula for you leveling your base stats. You're not meant to EV/IV train, it's not part of the game. Part of the game is the storyline and fighting trainers along the way, not grinding in a dugtrio cave for speed EVs.

I'm not sure how Pokemon bearing vague resemblance to an MMO warrants EVs and IVs remaining hidden.

That's not what I meant, what I meant was that showing EV's and IV's isn't part of a Pokemon game, is it? It's placed in online ones to help and assist people, almost making it too easy. It's hard to explain, but, the simplest way I could say it would be that - the challenge of training basestats in pokemon, is using trial and error to find out different pokemon that give different EV's/IV's. This could take multiple save files and hours of grinding, but isn't that the Pokemon we've loved?

 

[Moonstone]

I, too, thought "yes" at first, but now I'm not so sure.

Isn't the point of a pokemon game to build a bond with your pokemon? (I understand that they're sprites, but one can still grow attached to them, right?) I feel like showing those stats might take away the..."realness" of them, make them more mechanic, more like some pixels in a game and less like a pet or friend.

 

[Locke]

I don't think I'd mind either way, but I can think of a few arguments against making them visible.

It would add unwanted complexity for novice or casual players. A naive trainer might be confused when their pokemon's attack raised two points on level-up when they fought six pokemon the pokedex labeled as "ATT +2".

I'm reminded of a trainer from the show who would catch pokemon then analyze them with some device, releasing ones that didn't meet his standards. He was presented as a cruel person, so it doesn't seem like focusing too much on stats agrees with the philosophy that pokemon pushes. Obviously the fact that these values exist in the first place indicates that they do support trainers who wish to max out their pokemon's potential in this way, but I don't think they'd want to push this on trainers in general as a basic training/breeding mechanic. HVs should exist for those who like to use them to produce powerful pokemon, but they should be hidden for those who don't want to let their relationships with their pokemon to get bogged down by numbers.

I do however think they should do a little more to cater to serious trainers and breeders, but to keep the spirit of a casual RPG, growth indicators should be relative, not numeric. It would be great for the pokedex to indicate how battling certain pokemon affect your stats, as long as it's something like "ATT^" or "DEF^^" instead of "ATT +1" or "DEF +2". This is vague enough to prevent confusion while still providing enough information to those who know exactly what it means. I like how they did natures, simply indicating which stats are increased and decreased without getting too specific. I don't know if EVs could be presented in a similar way. Something like "ATT 105 (+12)" might be confusing... is that 12 EVs? 12 stats due to EVs? at current level? at level 100? IVs should remain hidden, though perhaps a little easier to calculate (accurately).

This is simply because you're not meant to know about them... They're a code in the game that effectively needs to remain hidden, it's just there formula for you leveling your base stats. You're not meant to EV/IV train, it's not part of the game. Part of the game is the storyline and fighting trainers along the way, not grinding in a dugtrio cave for speed EVs.


That's not what I meant, what I meant was that showing EV's and IV's isn't part of a Pokemon game, is it? It's placed in online ones to help and assist people, almost making it too easy. It's hard to explain, but, the simplest way I could say it would be that - the challenge of training basestats in pokemon, is using trial and error to find out different pokemon that give different EV's/IV's. This could take multiple save files and hours of grinding, but isn't that the Pokemon we've loved?

Couldn't using information other trainers have found about which pokemon help train certain aspects of their own pokemon be considered part of the game? The show makes it clear that training is not simply battling against random pokemon. Ash regularly engages in special training sessions to improve specific traits in his pokemon. This translates to the game (well, the other way around) by having certain battles which help improve certain stats. Numbers and mechanics aside, I think it's important for any trainer to assess the strengths and weaknesses of their pokemon, decide which should be improved, and learn how best to improve them. If you think of it as asking fellow trainers "What pokemon should I battle to help my pokemon get faster?" and getting replies like "Dugtrio's a really fast pokemon, so your pokemon will have to practice its speed to keep up with it." rather than "Which pokemon improve my pokemon's Speed EVs?" "Dugtrio gives +2 [or whatever it gives]", then you can still get your immersion and feel like you're playing the game "right". Come to think of it, the fact that this information is hidden and not displayed in-game encourages interaction among the pokemon community, which is also part of the true pokemon experience. Though looking up numbers on a chart is hardly interaction... I don't think it would hurt to have some indication of this specific value (how much EVs battling certain pokemon gives) in-game, in the more diegetic form mentioned above (i.e. presented in a way that makes sense within the pokemon universe, rather than through numbers that only make sense in a game).

 

[Curmudgeon]

I, too, thought "yes" at first, but now I'm not so sure.

Isn't the point of a pokemon game to build a bond with your pokemon? (I understand that they're sprites, but one can still grow attached to them, right?) I feel like showing those stats might take away the..."realness" of them, make them more mechanic, more like some pixels in a game and less like a pet or friend.

If you're playing casually, then I might say yes. I was very fond of my Tepig with a less than optimal nature and terrible IVs. If you breed for competitive stats, this is simply not the case. I've chucked *thousands* of pokemon with substandard IVs.

 

[HyruleHistory10]

I dont know i think the small and already cluttered status screen would become to cluttered. plus the newbie players woul dbe confused. so i say no...

HOWEVER something they could do (since you dont ev train till the end of the game) open up an area specific to ev training like a dojo you could pay money and they would open up areas specific to certain ev and could also show you the value but only show the value in that area or you have to hold a button to show it.

 

[Deeds]

I don't think I'd mind either way, but I can think of a few arguments against making them visible.

It would add unwanted complexity for novice or casual players. A naive trainer might be confused when their pokemon's attack raised two points on level-up when they fought six pokemon the pokedex labeled as "ATT +2".

I'm reminded of a trainer from the show who would catch pokemon then analyze them with some device, releasing ones that didn't meet his standards. He was presented as a cruel person, so it doesn't seem like focusing too much on stats agrees with the philosophy that pokemon pushes. Obviously the fact that these values exist in the first place indicates that they do support trainers who wish to max out their pokemon's potential in this way, but I don't think they'd want to push this on trainers in general as a basic training/breeding mechanic. HVs should exist for those who like to use them to produce powerful pokemon, but they should be hidden for those who don't want to let their relationships with their pokemon to get bogged down by numbers.

I do however think they should do a little more to cater to serious trainers and breeders, but to keep the spirit of a casual RPG, growth indicators should be relative, not numeric. It would be great for the pokedex to indicate how battling certain pokemon affect your stats, as long as it's something like "ATT^" or "DEF^^" instead of "ATT +1" or "DEF +2". This is vague enough to prevent confusion while still providing enough information to those who know exactly what it means. I like how they did natures, simply indicating which stats are increased and decreased without getting too specific. I don't know if EVs could be presented in a similar way. Something like "ATT 105 (+12)" might be confusing... is that 12 EVs? 12 stats due to EVs? at current level? at level 100? IVs should remain hidden, though perhaps a little easier to calculate (accurately).

Couldn't using information other trainers have found about which pokemon help train certain aspects of their own pokemon be considered part of the game? The show makes it clear that training is not simply battling against random pokemon. Ash regularly engages in special training sessions to improve specific traits in his pokemon. This translates to the game (well, the other way around) by having certain battles which help improve certain stats. Numbers and mechanics aside, I think it's important for any trainer to assess the strengths and weaknesses of their pokemon, decide which should be improved, and learn how best to improve them. If you think of it as asking fellow trainers "What pokemon should I battle to help my pokemon get faster?" and getting replies like "Dugtrio's a really fast pokemon, so your pokemon will have to practice its speed to keep up with it." rather than "Which pokemon improve my pokemon's Speed EVs?" "Dugtrio gives +2 [or whatever it gives]", then you can still get your immersion and feel like you're playing the game "right". Come to think of it, the fact that this information is hidden and not displayed in-game encourages interaction among the pokemon community, which is also part of the true pokemon experience. Though looking up numbers on a chart is hardly interaction... I don't think it would hurt to have some indication of this specific value (how much EVs battling certain pokemon gives) in-game, in the more diegetic form mentioned above (i.e. presented in a way that makes sense within the pokemon universe, rather than through numbers that only make sense in a game).

Great points here, I do agree with some of them. But honestly, I've never seen an episode where Ash is actually training specific stats of his Pokemon. There might be one, but I've never seen one like that. For the casual players of Pokemon, when they look at their stats and see EV's and IV's, they're not going to know what it is, straight away. Other things like EXP and Base Stats are pretty self explanatory, but to a noob - 'what the hell is an Effort Value'.

Showing the EV's that Pokemon give on the Pokedex could be interesting, it would also give a player more of a reason to check his Pokedex. That's a good idea, but I don't know whether it's best.

 

[Terminus]

Yes, for reasons stated above.

It's like how oldRPGs used to make you keep track of the map yourself. It's not an added challenge, it's just tedious and doesn't enhance the gameplay whatsoever.

Go North. You are in a forest.

Go North. You are in a forest.

Go North. You are in a forest.

Go North. You are in a forest. Oh dear I do believe I'm lost.

 

[Zenox]

I would love it if IVs were visible. When I have been hand-breeding Pokemon, I don't really give a about the IVs because I simply can't guess whether or not it's perfect, and quite frankly I'm just fine with getting the nature I want. I don't know. That sounds lazy. I'd be willing to put a bit more effort into perfecting my Pokemon if it were more plainly obvious what my IVs looked like.

EVs are pretty easy to keep track of, though it wouldn't kill them to make it more simple.

 

[dur.i.am]

It's like how oldRPGs used to make you keep track of the map yourself. It's not an added challenge, it's just tedious and doesn't enhance the gameplay whatsoever.

I agree with this, for some people keeping track of the maps in an old RPG might have been fun, but the majority just find it tedious and annoying. I personally would prefer the ability to see the stats for EVs and IVs on their own tab, probably after the tab that shows what the pokemons actual stats are. However, I can see why others wouldn't want this in their game for various reasons, so I think the best thing that they can do is add it as a setting in the options menu, allowing you to turn it off if you don't want it there.

The reason for this is pretty obvious, if you've ever EV trained, it's a pain in the *** because if you lose count you could end up losing a stat in another area if you accidentally kill one too many pokemon for EVs in another.

 

[GirlWithAFairy]

You know, if an IV were invisible I prolly wouldnt have as hard a time having one sticking out of my arm when needed... The whole tube in my arm and all-- wait a sec.... this is a pokemon conversation?!?!?!?


I kid I kid. Naw I really would like them to be invisible, I havent played in ages but my kid is of the age where he is ready to play and Im gonna be the one to help him. THB its for a ver selfish reason I want them invisible, the less **** I have to explain right off the bat the better my teaching him how to play will be. When he got Megamind for his PSP it went like this (Mom what that number, mom whats that line, mom what are these letters, mom what does that mean, mom mom mom mom mom mom mom mom mom mom mom mom ) Sooooo.....

 

[toonlink]

I don't think they should, I think it adds to the fun of it, though I do tend to breed a whole lot. Anyway, a part of me feels that it should be visible, but I mostly think that we shouldn't be able to, just because imagine all those already extremely powerful EV trained since level 1 pokemon.
I mean, maybe you could have some sort of item that tells you, but you get it after beating the E4.

 

[OcarinaBoy]

I don't much care one way or the other, as I know very little about IV's and their impact, and I have only very recently started looking into EV's. It would make things easier, I suppose, but I highly doubt that they will become visible. As stated in previous posts, this isn't what the game is truly about, so it shouldn't matter much unless you have a specific way of training or battle competitively (and that's what the internet is for, at least in my mind). What the games are about is bonding with your pokemon and having fun; if you achieve that, then IV's and EV's shouldn't be all that important. That is the reason I don't care if they're visible or not. If I catch a pokemon that I like and grow attached to, IV's, EV's, natures, and even abilities will mean absolutely nothing to me. As an example of what I mean, I will use this personal anecdote: I have caught exactly one Absol (my favourite pokemon) in my time as a pokemon trainer/gamer. The reason I only have one is because that Absol is mine; he is my pride and joy, and I am glad to have caught him and taken him with me through four games and all (main) regions so far. His nature doesn't matter to me, I have given little thought to EV's while training him, and he has the ability pressure, the least useful of the abilities an Absol can have (in my opinion), yet none of this has any effect on how I view him. If I truly wanted to, I could use what I know about EV's, IV's, and natures to raise an Absol that's twice as strong as the one I have, but I would consider that a betrayal to him at this point. Enjoying your time and loving the pokemon that you have, that is what pokemon is to me.

So, in summary, I do not care. It's the experiences that matter.

 

[mninja13]

It seems like that would just be too helpful.
What I like about EV and IV's are, is that its optional and just another side to pokemon.
I like that its a hidden side, you get to explore something that makes the game slightly less boring.

 

[tysonrss]

While a menu or something would be helpful, I think it's hidden to give new players a "feel" of having a adventage. Because not eeryone that plays know what those values are. Though I supposed a menu and an npc describing them would help. I use cheats to make those hidden stats vieweable