Timeline Discussion

[Moblinking5000]

Well of course, that's how they are now, but back then they were just towns. That's how it is with my timeline. Just names for towns. No coincidence.

I mean having town names that happen to be identical to the sages from OoT without them actually being named after them is the definition of a coincidence, but whatever floats your boat...

What even is your fanon timeline, anyway?

 

[AwdryFan1997]

I mean having town names that happen to be identical to the sages from OoT without them actually being named after them is the definition of a coincidence, but whatever floats your boat...

What even is your fanon timeline, anyway?

****, did I say no coincidence? I meant, "just a coincidence". Whoops.

Anyways, I'm glad you asked.

 

[Mangrove]

it's a prequel because it explains how ganondorf got his beast form in the first place
it's also the origin of the seven sages
ALttP says he used to be a thief, not a monster

I still see ALttP working after TP. In TP, Ganondorf was still human. Him temporarily turning into Dark Beast Ganon is short of our average lasting pig Ganon IMO. OoT Ganondorf still had wizarding powers to shoot electro balls and stuff, so he's similar enough to our TP Ganon.

I mean having town names that happen to be identical to the sages from OoT without them actually being named after them is the definition of a coincidence, but whatever floats your boat...

Not quite identical. Saria and Kasuto's presence and Impa's absence as town names are enough to dissolve that strict connection for fan timelines.

In-universe, coincidences seem to happen pretty regularly with returning characters and names. Coincidentally, the OoX boat looks like the LA boat; Coincidentally, BotW's name for the bird Divine beast Vah Medoh (with a Rito Champion) is similar to Medli's name (Rito Sage); Coincidentally, ALBW's hero of legend collected the 3 pendants & Master Sword, got a bunch of sages, and fought Ganon, similar to the ALttP hero (in fact, it's a coincidence that many heroes have to collect 3 mcguffins, but the ALttP pendants and ALBW pendants are a lot closer to eachother).

And yet, canonically, OoX are no longer LA prequels, BotW can't be a WW prequel, and ALttP Link is not ALBW's hero of legend. With ALBW's backstory seemingly a separate event that happens after ALttP, I don't see why the Imprisoning War can't be a separate event after OoT.

Side Note: The only 'problematic' games for the timeline are FSA and OoX, where everything else is pretty clean. With FSA being a clear sequel to FS, but also having an alternate origin for Ganondorf than OoT, it's placement will always feel unsatisfying unless FS loses its pre-OoT status. With OoX having Zelda not recognize Link, it can't be a continuation of any other game directly so it can go pretty much anywhere post-OoT (Side B Note: Going back to the old timeline discussions, it was weird to see that people connected Link riding a horse in the intro of OoX to Link riding Epona at the end of MM, but I guess if people were connecting boats, they can connect horses?)

I'm glad you asked.

were you just waiting to ****post this lol

EDIT: It took me sometime to translate your timeline, but I think I got it:
SS - OoT - WW/PH - ST
SS - OoT/MM - TP(/Link's Target Practice)
*Separate continuity*
ALttP/OoX/LA - LoZ/AoL

Is that right?

 

[AwdryFan1997]

were you just waiting to ****post this lol

Improved slightly:

EDIT: It took me sometime to translate your timeline, but I think I got it:
SS - OoT - WW/PH - ST
SS - OoT/MM - TP(/Link's Target Practice)
*Separate continuity*
ALttP/OoX/LA - LoZ/AoL

Is that right?

Yeah, pretty much.

 

[Moblinking5000]

With ALBW's backstory seemingly a separate event that happens after ALttP, I don't see why the Imprisoning War can't be a separate event after OoT.

I never argued that the Imprisoning War is Ocarina of Time, but that OoT serves as a prequel to ALttP that deals with the IW story by introducing elements involved in the IW and ALttP(Ganondorf when he was still a man, the Sacred Realm before it was corrupted into the Dark World,etc.). Of course, seperating OoT and the IW fixes the problems caused by OoT's ending in regard to ALttP such as the sage descendants in ALttP being human and Ganon having the full Triforce, just as how Ganon coming back in the ALBW backstory explains why he's sealed with the ToP in the beginning of ALBW instead of being dead with the entire Triforce in the hands of the RF like in ALttP-OoX, so I'm all for how the OoT-ALttP connection is maintained albeit compromised in modern canon. It takes the best of both worlds, IMO.

 

[Mangrove]

I never argued that the Imprisoning War is Ocarina of Time, but that OoT serves as a prequel to ALttP that deals with the IW story by introducing elements involved in the IW and ALttP(Ganondorf when he was still a man, the Sacred Realm before it was corrupted into the Dark World,etc.). Of course, seperating OoT and the IW fixes the problems caused by OoT's ending in regard to ALttP such as the sage descendants in ALttP being human and Ganon having the full Triforce, just as how Ganon coming back in the ALBW backstory explains why he's sealed with the ToP in the beginning of ALBW instead of being dead with the entire Triforce in the hands of the RF like in ALttP-OoX, so I'm all for how the OoT-ALttP connection is maintained albeit compromised in modern canon. It takes the best of both worlds, IMO.

I was thinking that the separation of OoT and the IW was clean enough to allow the events of TP to unfold in between OoT and ALttP. I didn't see it as breaking the OoT-ALttP connection since TP kept a lot of OoT in it, while doing things like showing a bunch of ethereal old man sages (showing new sages hadn't been awakened, so the next sages bloodline-wise would match these guys). Ganondorf's human 'thief' status is maintained while having him try for the Sacred Realm (before his failed execution) until he tries bringing darkness to Hyrule with another dimension's darkness. There are also a couple of little things, like the Master Sword pedestal was getting swallowed by the Lost Woods.
Link having an alternate journey in OoT and losing to Ganon has always felt flimsy to me. It's not so much of a cop-out to where it renders the whole timeline useless/too complex or anything like that, it's more like putting a carpet over a rock.

 

[Moblinking5000]

I was thinking that the separation of OoT and the IW was clean enough to allow the events of TP to unfold in between OoT and ALttP. I didn't see it as breaking the OoT-ALttP connection since TP kept a lot of OoT in it, while doing things like showing a bunch of ethereal old man sages (showing new sages hadn't been awakened, so the next sages bloodline-wise would match these guys). Ganondorf's human 'thief' status is maintained while having him try for the Sacred Realm (before his failed execution) until he tries bringing darkness to Hyrule with another dimension's darkness. There are also a couple of little things, like the Master Sword pedestal was getting swallowed by the Lost Woods.
Link having an alternate journey in OoT and losing to Ganon has always felt flimsy to me. It's not so much of a cop-out to where it renders the whole timeline useless/too complex or anything like that, it's more like putting a carpet over a rock.

I mean TP has alot of OoT in it because it's an OoT sequel, and a part of me feels like originally the plan might have been to make the CT go something like MM-TP-FSA-ALttP/LA-LoZ/AoL because of the MS in the woods in both TP and ALttP, Ganon getting a trident in FSA that's quite similar to the one in ALttP, but it carries some problems, like ALttP Ganon's backstory matching up better with OoT Ganon than FSA Ganon and the town names in AoL even being confirmed in 2008 before the reveal of the full timeline yet after the confirmation of the split as being named in honour of the OoT sages in universe.

The DT version of OoT isn't really an ''alternate journey'' per say, rather, it's implied that the events of OoT happen as they do in the AT up until the battle with Ganondorf, where Link dies. I personally like the official timeline for staying as true to official intent as possible over the years in terms of placement, which is why I'm fine with the official timeline. Three timelines also give us alot of room for new stories. I've never found it necessary to create a fanon timeline, personally.

 

[leroiducouscous]

The DT version of OoT isn't really an ''alternate journey'' per say, rather, it's implied that the events of OoT happen as they do in the AT up until the battle with Ganondorf, where Link dies.

Personally, I prefer to imagine a different journey. Otherwise, it creates a little plot hole with Twinrova being still alive in the Oracle serie...

 

[Moblinking5000]

Personally, I prefer to imagine a different journey. Otherwise, it creates a little plot hole with Twinrova being still alive in the Oracle serie...

We've seen Ganon and Vaati come back to life before. Is it that much of a stretch for Twinrova to do the same?

 

[leroiducouscous]

Of course not, it's a little plot hole.

However, about Vaati, I like to pretend he never actually died in Minish Cap, just like Hyrule Historia says. He only was thought to be dead.
And about Ganon, in my fiction, he can come back to life only in the timeline where he got the Triforce and wished to be immortal.
I personally like the story better this way.

 

[Moblinking5000]

Of course not, it's a little plot hole.

However, about Vaati, I like to pretend he never actually died in Minish Cap, just like Hyrule Historia says. He only was thought to be dead.
And about Ganon, in my fiction, he can come back to life only in the timeline where he got the Triforce and wished to be immortal.
I personally like the story better this way.

What's interesting is that even in the official timeline, Ganon comes back to life only in the DT; in the CT, he only breaks free from his seal in the Twilight Realm and is killed in TP, and the one in FSA is a different guy, and on the AT, he's unsealed from both the seal of the sages(the Ocarina of Time seal) and the seal of the gods(the Great Flood seal) before being eradicated thanks to the Triforce at the end of TWW. On the DT, in addition to breaking seals during ALttP and ALBW, he's brought back from the dead in OoX, the backstory of ALBW, and sometime prior to Zelda 1, and it's also the only branch where he got his hands on the full Triforce. I wonder if, taking the official timeline into account, that has to do with why he keeps coming back on the DT?

 

[Mangrove]

I mean TP has alot of OoT in it because it's an OoT sequel, and a part of me feels like originally the plan might have been to make the CT go something like MM-TP-FSA-ALttP/LA-LoZ/AoL because of the MS in the woods in both TP and ALttP, Ganon getting a trident in FSA that's quite similar to the one in ALttP, but it carries some problems, like ALttP Ganon's backstory matching up better with OoT Ganon than FSA Ganon and the town names in AoL even being confirmed in 2008 before the reveal of the full timeline yet after the confirmation of the split as being named in honour of the OoT sages in universe.

The DT version of OoT isn't really an ''alternate journey'' per say, rather, it's implied that the events of OoT happen as they do in the AT up until the battle with Ganondorf, where Link dies. I personally like the official timeline for staying as true to official intent as possible over the years in terms of placement, which is why I'm fine with the official timeline. Three timelines also give us alot of room for new stories. I've never found it necessary to create a fanon timeline, personally.

I was never that big of a fan of having FSA as a prequel for ALttP (doesn't fit well with ALttP's backstory), but with FS being pre-OoT, it's the only place it could have gone post-TP with Nintendo sticking to their own dev interviews (which HH and ZE do). I've been told that we still don't know why the Downfall timeline happened, just that it featured Link being defeated (but not necessarily as the cause). While I'm still not a big fan of Link failing and having a new split, it's just an opinion on the facts we've been given.

 

[Mikey the Gengar]

Personally I like that link being defeated canonically happens
It feels like a wheel of time level universe screwup and that's cool

 

[Moblinking5000]

I was never that big of a fan of having FSA as a prequel for ALttP (doesn't fit well with ALttP's backstory), but with FS being pre-OoT, it's the only place it could have gone with Nintendo sticking to their own dev interviews (which HH and ZE do). I've been told that we still don't know why the Downfall timeline happened, just that it featured Link being defeated (but not necessarily as the cause). While I'm still not a big fan of Link failing and having a new split, it's just an opinion on the facts we've been given.

I go by the Triforce Wish theory myself that states that the DT is the original timeline, and that Link wishing to undo Ganon's evil at the end of ALttP echoes to the past; the Triforce even says the stronger you wish, the stronger the expression of that wish. Someone with a heroic heart like Link would naturally wish very strongly. As a result the defeat of the HoT is undone, and then when he's sent back in time by Zelda, the CT is created where he undoes all of Ganon's evil in OoT by helping the Royal Family bring him to justice.

 

[AwdryFan1997]

I'm honestly wondering if the Downfall Timeline could work if the Hyrulean Civil War never happened. Like, if Ganon had taken a different approach with coveting wind. Link wouldn't be in Kokiri Forest, and Ganon wouldn't have even gone there to begin with, since he presumably wouldn't have motivation to... hmm... I might need some time to plan this out...