Timeline Discussion

[Mangrove]

So, what timeline possibilities would you all like to see explored?

I'd like to see a direct sequel to Twilight Princess. The ending had Link leave Ordon, which suggests a new adventure for that Link. It seems nuts that Nintendo hasn't capitalized on that yet. Plus, it's been forever since we got a new CT game.

I wouldn't mind seeing a post-ST game either since it's also been a long time since getting a new AT game, and I'd like to see the culture of New Hyrule expanded more.

A direct sequel to TP would be nice since the start of the other timeline splits got direct sequels themselves (ALttP/LA, WW/PH). Going by that trend, maybe TP Link's second adventure would involve some sort of cosmic whale deity...

 

[Uwu_Oocoo2]

A direct sequel to TP would be nice since the start of the other timeline splits got direct sequels themselves (ALttP/LA, WW/PH). Going by that trend, maybe TP Link's second adventure would involve some sort of cosmic whale deity...

Between Levias, the Wind Fish, the Ocean King, Lord Jabu Jabu, and Jabun I think Zelda has enough whale deities to last the series XD

 

[Mikey the Moblin]

A direct sequel to TP would be nice since the start of the other timeline splits got direct sequels themselves (ALttP/LA, WW/PH). Going by that trend, maybe TP Link's second adventure would involve some sort of cosmic whale deity...

excuse me but what is majora's mask here, chopped liver?

yes I'd be down for a majora's mask followup

 

[Moblinking5000]

excuse me but what is majora's mask here, chopped liver?

yes I'd be down for a majora's mask followup

I think he meant in terms of the games that kicked off the continuation of the whole ''Ganon/Triforce'' plot, but good point.

Not sure if we need a third Hero of Time game, though.

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

So, what timeline possibilities would you all like to see explored?

I would like to start a game where Ganon has already been victorious, and straight up killed the last incarnation of link. Zelda is only the descendant of royalty, and we get to see what Ganon's ideal, probably a dystopia, vision would be. Not just the battle torn wreckage we see in Ocrina of Time, but what he would create after he had the time to make it all work. Then, we build a revolution, and knock it all down.

 

[Moblinking5000]

I would like to start a game where Ganon has already been victorious, and straight up killed the last incarnation of link. Zelda is only the descendant of royalty, and we get to see what Ganon's ideal, probably a dystopia, vision would be. Not just the battle torn wreckage we see in Ocrina of Time, but what he would create after he had the time to make it all work. Then, we build a revolution, and knock it all down.

Wow, that sounds fascinating. I could imagine seeing this in, as a possible example, a fourth branch that splits off from ALttP with that incarnation of Link being killed in the final battle, with Ganon returning to Hyrule with the complete Triforce in hand now that ALttP Link is dead and the Wise Men's/Sage's seal is broken. Ganon returns to Hyrule, conquers the kingdom, and eventually molds it into his own fascist nation complete with propaganda, oppression and everything like that, with an underground resistance being formed centuries later, with the new incarnation of Link being a part of it.

Some serious potential if Nintendo pulls off some good writing to go along with it.

 

[Mangrove]

I wanna bring up the Oracles' games placements again after seeing other posts around the forum and this article: https://www.zeldadungeon.net/reconsidering-the-oracle-games-within-the-zelda-timeline/.

I think there are valid reasons to see OoX as a direct prequel to LA, but it is edged out by the LA - OoX evidence.

The article has a translation where the unfamiliarity of Zelda to Link is more clear, but the article's relation from that to PH's intro of WW exposition is flawed IMO. I share the thoughts of Justin in the replies. Other characters in the game reintroduce themselves in the linked game, but Zelda should have more weight IMO since she talked to Link at the very beginning of ALttP.

I think some of the design/artwork arguments have merit to them past the re-using of assets, like with Zelda's sprite in OoX being the same (plus a crown) as Marin's from LA, which Link confused with Zelda. An OoX/LA argument I changed my mind on was the "both ALttP Link and OoX Link look the same" when ALttP Link's design changed to be closer to OoX Link in the GBA rerelease. I used to see it as OoX Link not having been intended to look like ALttP Link, but now I see it as Nintendo liking the idea themselves that they were the same so they changed the art to match (Nintendo did confirm this connection back in HH).
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LAHD Link also changed his design to the bigger-eyed version.
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This is another thing I changed my mind on, since I thought the design of Link himself changing was to only be consistent with GBA ALttP Link, but with the addition of the white undergarment can strengthen the OoX/LA connection. LAHD even updates the boat to look more similar, and the boats already looked nearly identical, unlike MM Link on Epona to OoX Link on whatever that horse's name is.


BUT! I'd say the fact that OoX Link has a horse at all cancels the boat connection to LA, as there is no relevance of a horse in ALttP. The only edge I can see the boat having over the horse is the LA boat being almost pixel perfect to the one in OoX,besides the sails which could have easily been jury rigged since Link's in a storm (but even the sails were updated in LAHD to match the OoX more). The same way that the horse has no relevance to the rest of OoX is the same way the boat has no relevance to what happens in OoX, just there most likely as cheeky references from Capcom.

EDIT: A horse doesn't really cancel this idea to be honest as who knows how much time would've been between ALttP and OoX. It could just be a piece of worldbuilding that doesn't reference ALttP, but doesn't contradict it, either.

Also, there is Link getting through Hyrule Castle in response to the Triforce. I temporarily saw that as evidence towards OoX/LA, but the Triforce asks him to go on a quest as a test, not making much sense if Link went through all of ALttP. This test cancels out Link's ease to get to the Triforce, if not overpowers it.

EDIT: The Japanese version can be seen more as the quest being less of a test and more as, well, just a quest, not necessarily proving Link's worth.

The birthmark is the most damning evidence, though. This isn't like AoL where a mark just appears on the back of his hand, but something that has apparently been there since birth. It's hard for me to see that as not being mentioned in ALttP if it was the same Link.

EDIT: This is the only real retcon, but I don't see it being too big of a retcon, either.

Also, the Japanese version of ZE says that they are different.

For the Links to be the same to me, OoX remakes would have to:
- retcon the birthmark to be a new emergence like in AoL or mention how it went unexplained in ALttP
- rephrase the Triforce's test intro as simply a new quest to stop evil elsewhere (it doesn't HAVE to, but it would help)
- more clearly phrase Zelda's intro as being familiar with Link (again, doesn't HAVE to, but it would help)
I'd say these are pretty small changes that would make ALttP Link even cooler than he already is, but for what we have now, them being the same doesn't work and I concede that ZE has changed it for the better. My previous headfanon timeline ideas of time travel shenanigans might explain the Zelda reintroduction, but it can't do much for the birthmark or the Triforce not seeing ALttP Link as worthy post ALttP.

EDIT: The only major issue is the birthmark and that's not even a major issue to me anymore. ZE's decision has much less weight to me.

 

[Moblinking5000]

I will say that I disagree with the artwork having any merit; ALBW Link had his look change completely to the Toon Link style in TFH, but both Links are the same.

Also, here's official art of Link in Zelda 1: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XdXbkGR5l...ADU/R0VzSQ9tuzE/s1600/317255-link05_super.jpg

And here's art of Link in Zelda 2: https://res.cloudinary.com/lmn/imag...q_80/v1/gameskinnyc/t/a/o/taol-link-2be68.png

Notice the huge differences between these two pictures. Yet, they are both the same hero.

Don't get me started on how many Links have the Toon Link style while being different heroes, either.

Art style has nothing to do with lore. By that logic, no game should be in the same continuity, unless if you think that the flood somehow changed the look of the world from it's more down to earth look in OoT to it's cell shaded look in TWW, for example.

 

[Mikey the Moblin]

Also, here's official art of Link in Zelda 1: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XdXbkGR5l...ADU/R0VzSQ9tuzE/s1600/317255-link05_super.jpg

And here's art of Link in Zelda 2: https://res.cloudinary.com/lmn/imag...q_80/v1/gameskinnyc/t/a/o/taol-link-2be68.png

I thought zelda 2 wasn't a direct sequel?

 

[Mangrove]

I will say that I disagree with the artwork having any merit; ALBW Link had his look change completely to the Toon Link style in TFH, but both Links are the same.

Also, here's official art of Link in Zelda 1: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XdXbkGR5l...ADU/R0VzSQ9tuzE/s1600/317255-link05_super.jpg

And here's art of Link in Zelda 2: https://res.cloudinary.com/lmn/imag...q_80/v1/gameskinnyc/t/a/o/taol-link-2be68.png

Notice the huge differences between these two pictures. Yet, they are both the same hero.

Don't get me started on how many Links have the Toon Link style while being different heroes, either.

For TFH, is there anything besides a NOA tweet saying they are the same character? Someone showed me something from one of the official guidebooks where Aonuma changed it last minute to be Toon Link, as if this change meant it was a different Link. I haven't played the game myself; is there a reason ALBW Link dyes his hair green?

Games can have multiple artstyles, even for the same release.
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That's like saying the Link from the intro of LAHD is different from the in-game toy-like Link, but that's obviously not the case. Before Wind Waker, the same Links would typically have the same artsyle in manuals or official guides. Zelda 1 and AoL Link were clearly the same by appearance, ALttP/LA were clearly the same, and OoT/MM were clearly the same. I would say OoX would have had a new hero, but Nintendo themselves put that Link as the same as ALttP Link in HH, so I think a good question to ask now is at what point did Nintendo themselves take OoX Link to be the same as ALttP Link? The artstyle change of ALttP (GBA) as the next release clearly being consistent to the OoX Link design makes me think the decision was made shortly after the release of OoX since it came out one year later, but the release of ALttP GBA also brought Four Swords, where the style would be copied by WW without any direct connections. Pre-WW (and post-ALttP GBA), it really did seem that the similar artstyles indicated the same hero.

Art style has nothing to do with lore. By that logic, no game should be in the same continuity, unless if you think that the flood somehow changed the look of the world from it's more down to earth look in OoT to it's cell shaded look in TWW, for example.

The similar artstyle was to connect the SAME heroes, not different heroes.

 

[Moblinking5000]

I thought zelda 2 wasn't a direct sequel?

It is. The Link in Zelda 1 and 2 are the same person.

For TFH, is there anything besides a NOA tweet saying they are the same character? Someone showed me something from one of the official guidebooks where Aonuma changed it last minute to be Toon Link, as if this change meant it was a different Link. I haven't played the game myself; is there a reason ALBW Link dyes his hair green?

The Enyclopedia(yes, even the Japanese one) says they are the same, as does the Japanese official site. There's also this interview:

Moving over the to story, people are always excited to think about the overall timeline of the Zelda franchise. Have you given thought to where Triforce Heroes fits into the overall history and lore of series?

Shikata: This a few years after A Link Between Worlds, and that influence may be because I was also the director on that game.

Initially, the story starts with the king recruiting hero candidates, and that's where Link steps in. But there's a part of me that doesn't want people to come into the game thinking, "Is he not a hero then? Is he just a candidate?" I want to reassure people that this Link is the hero that came from the A Link Between Worlds world.

It's a little unusual for a Zelda game, but it's the same hero.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/the-story-behind-triforce-heroes-an-interview-with/1100-6431697/

Games can have multiple artstyles, even for the same release.

That should further prove that artstyle shouldn't be used as an indicator of everything.

Ingame text>Artstyle. And the ingame text of OoX indicates a ALttP/LA-OoX placement.

Nintendo themselves may have initially wanted a ALttP/OoX/LA placement, but the fact that they went back on it proves that they realized it made less sense.

 

[darklordoftech]

So, what timeline possibilities would you all like to see explored?

I'd like to see a direct sequel to Twilight Princess. The ending had Link leave Ordon, which suggests a new adventure for that Link. It seems nuts that Nintendo hasn't capitalized on that yet. Plus, it's been forever since we got a new CT game.

I wouldn't mind seeing a post-ST game either since it's also been a long time since getting a new AT game, and I'd like to see the culture of New Hyrule expanded more.

1. Ganondorf touches the reunited Triforce before King Daphnes at the end of The Wind Waker.

2. Koume and Kotate successfully sacrifice Zelda at the end of the linked Oracle ending.

3. A Sheik game set during OOT and after Link’s defeat on the Downfall Timeline.

4. The Era of Chaos.

5. Zelda doesn’t send Link back in time at the end of Ocarina of Time.

 

[Moblinking5000]

All interesting ideas DLT. Although I'm assuming that you meant the Oracle games in the second one, not TWW?

I don't know if Nintendo will make anymore branches, though. They seem to have settled on a tri-split.

In terms of the available branches, I'd like to see a direct sequel to TP, as well as maybe a game dealing with the Vaati conflict in the backstory of FS and the Ganon conflict in the backstory of ALBW, although since they never do games about preexisting backstories(aside from OoT being about the backstory of ALttP, but even then, they had to compromise in the end), those might be unlikely.

It'd be cool if after BotW2, we finally got that direct sequel to TP that was teased in the ending of the game with Link leaving Ordon, especially if they want to take a break from Ganon and the DT. Some more games taking place in the AT in New Hyrule would be grand, too. It would provide some opportunity for New Hyrule to expand on its own cultural norms, races, lore, etc. seperate from Old Hyrule. Maybe some more games in the Unified Timeline too, to expand some more on what life was like in a pre-Ganon Hyrule and to have some original one shot villains.

 

[Ryuu Kage Desu]

3. A Sheik game set during OOT and after Link’s defeat on the Downfall Timeline.

Yes! Please!

 

[Chevywolf30]

maybe a game dealing with the Vaati conflict in the backstory of FS

You mean MC? That would be great.