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Timeline Discussion

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Oct 6, 2016
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You mean MC? That would be great.
No, I mean how Four Swords on the GBA(the game that was on the same cartridge as the GBA port of ALttP) told about how Vaati kidnapped multiple maidens(whereas Zelda was the only one captured in TMC), and how a young boy travelling only with a Sword(whereas TMC Link also had a talking hat(Ezlo) and many other weapons) defeated Vaati in his palace(whereas Vaati wasn't in his palace in TMC, but Hyrule Castle) and sealed him away(whereas he was killed at the end of TMC).
 

Spiritual Mask Salesman

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I wanna bring up the Oracles' games placements again after seeing other posts around the forum and this article: https://www.zeldadungeon.net/reconsidering-the-oracle-games-within-the-zelda-timeline/.
Oh you linked my frontpage article, lol. I've kind of 180°-ed on my thoughts to a point where idk which is better. I still think the boat ending for the Oracles just fits so well to go into Link's Awakening, but the evidence for the Encyclopedia placement has a lot going for it. I also brought up the fact that the Triforce called to Link, and I still do think it's odd that the Triforce would speak ti a random hero, it makes more sense for it to call to someone it is familar with.
 
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Oh you linked my frontpage article, lol. I've kind of 180°-ed on my thoughts to a point where idk which is better. I still think the boat ending for the Oracles just fits so well to go into Link's Awakening, but the evidence for the Encyclopedia placement has a lot going for it. I also brought up the fact that the Triforce called to Link, and I still do think it's odd that the Triforce would speak ti a random hero, it makes more sense for it to call to someone it is familar with.
Why does the Triforce want to test him, then?

The Triforce also refers to him as the ''chosen hero''. Him being called by the Triforce is probably something to do with ''destiny'' or the like based on that.
 

Spiritual Mask Salesman

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Why does the Triforce want to test him, then?

The Triforce also refers to him as the ''chosen hero''. Him being called by the Triforce is probably something to do with ''destiny'' or the like based on that.
Some sort of growth journey maybe? According LA's opening, Link was wanting to be tested and to train in foreign lands, so maybe the Triforce is just sending him off to do just that?

Edit: How do we know the triforce mark was a birthmark for Oracle Link? Perhaps he only got it after obtaining the Triforce in ALttP.
 
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アラ あなた 左手に 「Triangle」のアザが あるのね Oh, you have a triangle birthmark on your left hand.

Yes, it is a birthmark.

「大地と時空のことわり」を知り その勇気をもって 邪悪なるものを しりぞけたあなたは トライフォースのみちびきにより でんせつの勇者となったのです
You have the courage of knowing the “Reasons of Earth and Space-Time” and have driven away the evil one. You have become the legendary hero who is guided by the Triforce.

Oracles Link doesn't become the hero until the end of the game.
 
Joined
Jun 28, 2020
The Enyclopedia(yes, even the Japanese one) says they are the same, as does the Japanese official site. There's also this interview:
https://www.gamespot.com/articles/the-story-behind-triforce-heroes-an-interview-with/1100-6431697/

Ah, I see, "It's a little unusual for a Zelda game, but it's the same hero.".

This is one of those things I can easily see being retconned later like ALttP/OoX/LA was, haha.

That should further prove that artstyle shouldn't be used as an indicator of everything. Ingame text>Artstyle. And the ingame text of OoX indicates a ALttP/LA-OoX placement.

I didn't take the artstyle as an indicator of everything, just followed the pre-WW pattern that artstyle consistencies had the same heroes. The alternate styles for those games don't match up with the alternate styles of the other games, so they were all still unique to their own heroes. The consistency in the artstyle (to even changing ALttP Link to match OoX Link in the rerelease) was looking more into how the devs saw things at the time. The artstyle didn't trump any in-game evidence in my other post. I wouldn't say OoX text indicates ALttP/LA-OoX, I just used the ingame evidence to disprove the ALttP/OoX/LA connection. OoX only needs to happen after a game where Ganon died (thus needing to be revived).

For the Links to be the same to me, OoX remakes would have to:
- retcon the birthmark to be a new emergence like in AoL
- rephrase the Triforce's test intro as simply a new quest to stop evil elsewhere
- more clearly phrase Zelda's intro as being familiar with Link

Even in the other post I had, the boat sharing the same design lost relevance to me.
BUT! I'd say the fact that OoX Link has a horse at all cancels the boat connection to LA, as there is no relevance of a horse in ALttP.

My post didn't imply that artstyle had anything over the ingame text anyways. I didn't mean to imply that, at least. But looking at the changes made, it's apparent Nintendo liked the idea themselves of OoX/LA.

Nintendo themselves may have initially wanted a ALttP/OoX/LA placement, but the fact that they went back on it proves that they realized it made less sense.

I wonder why they went with a ALttP/OoX/LA placement in the first place? We can still discuss this while acknowledging ALttP/LA - OoX as canon. I suspect it had stuff to do with the regular OoX/LA arguments, like the boat ending.

Oh you linked my frontpage article, lol. I've kind of 180°-ed on my thoughts to a point where idk which is better. I still think the boat ending for the Oracles just fits so well to go into Link's Awakening, but the evidence for the Encyclopedia placement has a lot going for it. I also brought up the fact that the Triforce called to Link, and I still do think it's odd that the Triforce would speak ti a random hero, it makes more sense for it to call to someone it is familar with.

Ah! Mr. Charles Xavier. The Triforce speaking to some shmuck on a horse could be like how Zelda calls Link in the beginning of ALttP where he should be kinda rando to her at that point. I keep them separate now in headcanon since I don't like the idea of ALttP Link needing to prove himself to the Triforce after everything that happened in ALttP. His own quests shouldn't be Triforce trials, he already earned that IMO.

The GBA remake of ALttP for some reason changed the Wise Men to being sages presumably to connect better to OoT (even though they don't work as the OoT sages), so in the future, Nintendo could tweak some of the OoX text to easily make the connection better for some remakes. The only thing to support this prediction is LAHD's Link's undergarments being added (not just using ALttP GBA Link's design) and the divisive sail of the ship being updated to match OoX's more. :shrugs: It ain't much, but it's something.
 

Spiritual Mask Salesman

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The Enyclopedia(yes, even the Japanese one) says they are the same, as does the Japanese official site. There's also this interview:
Ah, I see, "It's a little unusual for a Zelda game, but it's the same hero.".

This is one of those things I can easily see being retconned later like ALttP/OoX/LA was, haha
Yeah TFH is really one of those games where it's so self-contained they could put it almost anywhere and it'd be fine. I just find it funny that they had to clarify it was the same hero as ALBW Link because the game itself isn't so transparent.

I wonder why they went with a ALttP/OoX/LA placement in the first place? We can still discuss this while acknowledging ALttP/LA - OoX as canon. I suspect it had stuff to do with the regular OoX/LA arguments, like the boat ending.
It's probably an instance of different teams involved with the books. Kazuya Sakai and Naoyuki Kayama are the only names that appear on the Japanese credits for both Hyrule Historia and Zelda Encyclopedia, so it's entirely possible that with the new team that wrote the Encyclopedia, they had different thoughts on how the Oracle games could fit into the timeline.
 
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A timeline-accurate text hack of OOT would be amusing. “When I get the other two Triforce pieces, I shall fulfill my dream of being a blue pig.” “To be continued in A Link To The Past”.

Maybe the Downfall Timeline was caused by a randomizer that placed the Triforces of Wisdom and Courage in Ganon’s Castle.
 
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So, I don't know who has seen this passage from CaC/MW, but this is HUGE:


There's alot of implications here for lore relating to BotW.

According to the fairy tale, Calamity Ganon was once, originally, a Gerudo. This man named Ganondorf was once their leader, but he became the demon king and tried to take Hyrule for himself! However, his ambitions were crushed by a hero who carried the blade of evil’s bane. Although he transformed into the demonic beast Ganon through his runaway power, he was sealed away by the princess and the sages. Through his resentment towards the hero and the princess, and after countless revivals and sealings, the demon king Ganon transformed into Malice and has haunted Hyrule itself!

Interestingly, while the hero is mentioned, Ganon was ultimately defeated by the princess and sages. Strange not to mention the hero in that sentence, unless if he was no longer in the fight, which would make sense if he, you know, died. That coupled with Ganon being revived and sealed countlessly is a pretty good matchup with the DT.

Whereas that generation saw the birth of the demon king, another of the Gerudo also became a sage who saved Hyrule.

Nabooru was around in the same generation as Ganondorf, proving that OoT Ganon is BotW Ganon(although every Ganon in the DT is already OoT Ganon)

According to Gerudo records, and since the appearance of the Gerudo King who transformed into the Calamity, no records remain which show a man as their leader.

Makes a CT placement even more impossible, as we know there is no Ganon II in the world of BotW.

According to Gerudo records, and since the appearance of the Gerudo King who transformed into the Calamity, no records remain which show a man as their leader.

And the Gerudo of long ago once had a different ear shape than those present now, being instead rounded in appearance. Although it is widely believed that this is due to the practice of the “Voe Hunt”, it’s been passed down in the fairy tales that: “Because of the deep shame we bear as the source of Calamity Ganon in ancient times, the shape of our ears became the same as those who listen carefully to the voices of Hyrule’s gods, too.”

Now this is REALLY interesting!

We know in OoT that the Gerudo had round ears. Ganondorf had round ears in OoT(and OoT3D retconned it so that even his future self has round ears), but his ears became long in TP and TWW. On the DT, however, his human form never grew long ears. Ganondorf's corpse in BotW2 has round ears, unlike the other Gerudo in the BotW era.

I have a feeling that we're going to get some more lore in regards to the Gerudo in BotW2.
 

Uwu_Oocoo2

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Another interesting section from what @Moblinking5000 posted;
Whereas that generation saw the birth of the demon king, another of the Gerudo also became a sage who saved Hyrule. Her name was Nabooru. Divine Beast “Naboris” was named in her honour, and both the present chief, Riju, and the late Champion, Urbosa, hold great admiration for this legendary Gerudo figure.
This would indicate the DT or AT, since those are the only timelines where Nabooru awakened as a sage. We could have assumed that from the fact that Naboris was named after her, but it could've just been that she was an important person in Gerudo history. This specifically places her as a sage.
 

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