Skyward Sword: The Worst 3D Zelda Title

[SecretNerd-sshh]

VanitasXII, im really confused. While I wasnt talking about plot specifically, it sounded to me like you agree with me. Oh well...

 

[MW7]

Okay, explain to us how this series has not been following alttp's standard formula, just using new hardware gimmicks to maintain a fresh appearance. Id love to hear your opinion on the matter.

The basic outline of ALTTP has in fact been copied in every console release except Majora's Mask. However, saying every Zelda game is the exact same thing is a huge exeggeration stemming from that fact. It's like saying every Mario game is the same based on the fact that Princess Peach is rescued in all of them. The stories are basically the same every time but the games are very different in other ways.

But the outline is clear:
ALTTP- get 3 pendants then get master sword and plot twist to dark world
OOT- get 3 spiritual stones then get master sword and go to future- somewhat gimmickless though
MM- 4 boss remains - one of these is not like the others- masks and 3 day cycle can be considered gimmicks though
WW- get 3 pearls then do Tower of Gods and go to Hyrule under the sea for master sword- gimmick is sailing
TP- get 3 fused shadows then get master sword and look for mirror shards the rest of the game- gimmick is wolf
SS- slightly different but plot twist occurs after 3rd dungeon like most other games- get last 2 (out of 3) pieces of map and get harp-gimmick is flying

EDIT: Whoa, Vanitas you posted twice in the time it took me to write this, and you used the Mario example just like me.. eerie.

But yeah, throwing out Majora's Mask, the plot progression of console Zelda games is practically Madlibs.

 

[KornGP47]

I would also like to point out the game was a lot shorter than I thought it would be... I finished it in under 35 hours, and I really stretched that out with side quests (Bugs, treasure, upgrades, all the heart pieces, etc...) And that was just sort of a letdown as word around the block was that it would be 50-100 hours. However, I really enjoyed all of the in-between dungeon missions. I thought those were original and innovative - and had they been combined with stellar dungeons this game would've been much better.

Your getting it ALL wrong. The reason you finished it under 35 game hours is because of the main quest. What Miyamoto meant to say was for both modes. In totality, I have over 80 game hours.

 

[Ventus]

Yes, it was an exaggeration and mostly a rant on my part; just mad that Nintendo constantly reuses some elements. I get that they ain't broke so why fix them, but some innovations could do a number for the better.

 

[baga jr.]

One of the biggest things I noticed you complained about was "lack of size". Yes, I agree, the areas were a lot smaller. However, I think you're looking at it too visually. I look at it by content. No, I'm not one of those people that think TP's overworld was empty, I found plenty of things to do. In fact, I first thought The Sky was small, but in the end, I compared the actual content and it seemed pretty equal with TP's Hyrule Field. I also noticed that one visit to one of SS's areas had much more content, if not the same amount, as going through another 3D Zelda's pre-dungeon stuff. The later visits for each area don't really feel weaker, and even if you think they do, then just look at OoT, WW, and TP. The pre-dungeon stuff for the later dungeons in those games were shorter than the previous dungeons.

So there. That's just my opinion on that factor of Skyward Sword.

And random question, how do I update my sig? I haven't been here in a long time and I can't seem to figure it out.

 

[SecretNerd-sshh]

Im so confused. So I guess VanitasXII does agree with me.

 

[Crash]

I don't know how to explain that, because I neither hold that opinion nor know how to support it. However, in the opinion that I do hold:

If you look at every single Zelda game (barring MM, PH and ST), it follows the same exact plot: peaceful beginnings, small plot twist to drive the plot, three dungeons, plot twist, more dungeons then final boss and happy (bittersweet) ending.
---
Every single Zelda game features the same exact characters: there is the Gary Stu [or Mario] (Link – he's perfect), the Peach (Zelda – she's always captured), and the Bad Guy [or Bowser](Ganondorf, Demise...you name it). I'll put it in simplest terms.

Good ol' Mario has a peaceful beginning, then something happens to Peach so as to make Mario go off and have to save her. What happens is Peach is either kidnapped by or vehemently pursued by Bowser. Eventually, Mario builds up enough power and an arsenal of weaponry and defeats Bowser, winning back his Peach and saving the Mushroom Kingdom.

Essentially what every single Zelda game is. Just translate Mario to Link, Peach to Zelda and Bowser to the villain of the game. Mushroom Kingdom is also the land (Hyrule, Holodrum, etc). There are no real plot twists in the Zelda series (except MM where it's chock full of them). The suspense dies down because we already know that Link IS GOING to win. Doesn't matter how much character development there is, because it's the same story. It has small little details that make people "theorize", but the story isn't even the focal point of Zelda! If you don't believe that, then explain to me why Zelda can never do anything on her own, why the bad guy NEVER wins, and why Link never once has died in combat? Just explain it to me.

Of course, the typical fan reaction to Link dying, the bad guy winning, or Zelda becoming a more physical person would be: "thankfully only a small percentage of the Zelda fanbase wants the kind of game you want". But I dare ask, why do you say thankfully when it is has never happened? I'm sure real plot twists like those would be more welcome than the typical hero story we get with every Zelda release. The gimmick we speak of in each new Zelda is just the new graphics, the different gameplay, different items and different scenery. Still just padding to divert the attention that the story is the exact same in every release.

The reason for this is because all of the Zelda games already exist. They're a legend that has already happened and has been written down, it is what it is. We just play through as the role of the hero to share in his trials and tribulations. That's the whole reason for the word Legend. And Zelda always tries to do something and in more cases then not she actually does when she gets the opportunity. In ST she was your companion and she helped you through the temple by taking over phantoms. In Wind Waker she had her own role in the story before finding out she was Zelda and even then she accompanied you in the final boss fight. In ALttP she was powerless to help but she wasn't worthless and wasn't kidnapped until halfway through. In OoT she was your guide through the world until the VERY end when she was captured. In TP she had to give into Zant or lose her people, when she was finally free and able to help, she did by accompanying you in your battle with Ganondorf by shooting light arrows at him. In SS she is just one step ahead of you and has her own role to play and isn't just kidnapped (I'm not going to say anymore in case there are those that haven't played yet looking). Zelda has never been anywhere near as worthless as Peach has been in the past. Peach just gets captured like it's nobody's business and I really do consider her almost worthless. The story is similar, but to call it the exact same is a far stretch... There are many differences between all the Zelda games, but if you look at the body structure then yeah, they are pretty much the same, but they are different enough to make it enjoyable. Think of people, going by this logic everybody is the exact same because we all have the same internal organs and we all have arms, legs, eyes, noses, heads, torsos, and the like. But to take people and say that we're all the same is just completely wrong. Everyone has their own quirks and their special little attitude and personality to make everyone different and there are vast differences in people, more than enough to make some completely different. This is true for Zelda as well.

 

[4815162342]

Your getting it ALL wrong. The reason you finished it under 35 game hours is because of the main quest. What Miyamoto meant to say was for both modes. In totality, I have over 80 game hours.

You can't take a full length game, copy and paste it with some added restrictions, and then say your game is twice as long. Because it really isn't That's not 80 hours of new material. It's really only 35. Expectation management, Nintendo, expectation management...

Yes, it was an exaggeration and mostly a rant on my part; just mad that Nintendo constantly reuses some elements. I get that they ain't broke so why fix them, but some innovations could do a number for the better.

Exactly, so when I read that Nintendo was going to change the dungeon pattern in the game, I thought they were going to change the 3 dungeons, plot twist, more dungeons, final boss. Which is why I was let down when I thought the dungeon pattern would be something completely new like in Majora' Mask.

One of the biggest things I noticed you complained about was "lack of size". Yes, I agree, the areas were a lot smaller. However, I think you're looking at it too visually. I look at it by content. No, I'm not one of those people that think TP's overworld was empty, I found plenty of things to do. In fact, I first thought The Sky was small, but in the end, I compared the actual content and it seemed pretty equal with TP's Hyrule Field. I also noticed that one visit to one of SS's areas had much more content, if not the same amount, as going through another 3D Zelda's pre-dungeon stuff. The later visits for each area don't really feel weaker, and even if you think they do, then just look at OoT, WW, and TP. The pre-dungeon stuff for the later dungeons in those games were shorter than the previous dungeons.

I look at it by both - Majora's Mask was one of the smallest areas by size, but it completely made up for it in content. Every square inch of Termina had something to do. The same cannot be said about the world of Skyward Sword. It was vast, I'll give it that. But the world - above the clouds and below - lacked a solid number of people to interact with. Below the clouds, there were only monsters to kill, not people to help. And above the clouds, Skyloft had some characters - but no sidequests nearly as deep as the Anju and Kafei quest from Majora's Mask.

To call the worlds of OoT and MM "vast" is an insult to the word. They may be great games, but they aren't vast by any stretch of the imagination. On the maps of WW and SS, Link barely registers as a speck. Now, that's vast. In this case, it's really different strokes for different folks. I loved the sea in WW and the fields of TP. My love of the sky in SS ends with the fight controls, however.

Also, I'd like to point out that there was never any more to do in Hyrule Field than in the sky. The size of the sky just makes that more noticeable. Hyrule Field isn't better than the sky, its just different. I never liked Hyrule Field that much because you could never get across it fast enough (except maybe in TP). I don't say OoT is less of a game because of it, just that I don't enjoy it as much as others do.

"Vast" implies that the world is both large and full. Majora's Mask's Termina, and to a lesser extent, Ocarina of Time's Hyrule were not necessarily enormous, but they were full of things to do. Sure, the sky was vast - it was one of the largest open areas in Zelda to date. But if you take the percent of that area that is actually accessible, it's a pretty small number. Skyloft and some scattered islands. That's it.

Okay, I must have been playing a different game then, because the dungeons I saw were the spark of charm and wit. In Skyview Temple, you have to cut through natural barriers (including webs that you had to shake out of), and there was a room that you had to figure out how to escape by going through a crack in the wall. The Earth Temple went all "Super Monkey Ball" on us and had real booby traps. Lanayru Mining Facility had time shift stones and sand traps. The Fire Sanctuary had indoor and outdoor "rooms" and had puzzles that required you to carry water on the tip of your sword. You could build an entire game around just one of these dungeons. Not only that, each room in each dungeon is unique. Its virtually impossible to get lost in a SS dungeon, because they are so well designed. Also, Nintendo finally gave us a reason to collect the maps. I didn't think that was possible.

Cutting through natural barriers was charming and witty? I found it to be a chore - nowhere near as good as grabbing a deku stick, running to a torch, and using that to destroy spider webs. The Earth Temple's only new addition was the Super Monkey Ball portion, but the fact that we're naming that action after another game shows that it's nothing revolutionary to gaming at all. I praised time shift stones in my earlier argument, for I believe those to be the greatest part of Skyward Sword. But sand traps - nothing new at all. And I have most definitely used water to solidify lava in a video game before. I found them to be the opposite of well designed compared to the list of dungeons that I described in an earlier argument.

Really, only TP had anything bigger than Skyloft. OoT and MM might have had a few more NPCs, but not much. Even so, SS is still far superior to them because the NPCs aren't just idiots who lose their chickens or guys who run the shooting gallery. The NPCs in SS fell like real people. I found myself finishing side-quests, not for the rewards (because they weren't all that great), but to see what would happen. With the golden skulltallas and admiral poes, I gave up because I stopped caring.

Ocarina of Time may have had a few more NPCs, but Majora's Mask had way more. So many that Skyward Sword should be embarrassed. What Nintendo did in two years between 1998 and 2000 was far more detailed than what Nintendo did in five between 2006 and 2011. I would've been a lot happier with Nintendo had they used the Twilight Princess engine and worked on building a detailed, intricate sequel to Twilight Princess instead of a game that felt less than half baked. And the NPCs are complete idiots in Skyward Sword - "Oh no, I lost my rattle and I haven't slept for three days, so I'm just going to stand here and shake my baby because that's really doing a lot instead of going out and trying to find a solution" - yeah, because that makes perfect sense.

Only that's not how the plot of SS went down. You go through the first dungeon to find Zelda and she's not there. Don't worry, there's this other dungeon that she might be in, but she leaves and you can't follow for some reason. Okay, now let's go to the desert and hope in vain that you find her again. You do, but she has to go somewhere safe and you have other things you have to do, so you can't go. Where is this "plot twist" that you spoke of? I must not have been playing right, because I didn't get the plot twist until I was about two-third of the way into the game. Was I misbehaving and Nintendo decided to punish me?

Only that's exactly how the plot of Skyward Sword went down. "Your Princess is in another castle" much? Repeat, repeat - get to the desert. PLOT TWIST! Surprise! It's Ghirahim! What's he doing here? Door of time, bye bye Zelda, bye bye Door of Time. And then the other door of time in the Sealed Temple? PLOT TWIST! Right back to the three-dungeon, plot twist, more dungeons, final boss formula. Nothing new to see here.

 

[PK Love Omega]

I had mixed feelings about the game while playing through it, however I feel that one cannot entirely judge a game until they’ve completed it. I just finished this afternoon, and here’s my assertion: Skyward Sword is the worst 3D Zelda home console title.

No, that's your opinion. If that was a fact, why would it be getting very high scores and beating some of the highly anticipated games?

Skyward Sword lacked a majestic over world full of things to do – sure, the sky was majestic enough, but it was entirely void of gameplay. Spotted islands – one of my issues with The Wind Waker - are nowhere near interesting enough to compete with the vast over worlds of Twilight Princess, Ocarina of Time, and Majora’s Mask. I was hoping for something of that style to emerge beneath the clouds – some sort of Hyrule or Termina Field, but unfortunately nothing of the sort emerged. I believe that this element is essential for Zelda games to succeed.

No, you simply are rushing it. You should be taking it in, and not rushing to the finish. I am just going to ask. How many items do you have? Hearts? Pieces of Hearts? Bugs?

The next issue I had with Skyward Sword was the dungeon design. Except for the Ancient Cistern and the Sandship, I felt that many of the dungeons were stereotypical Zelda dungeons that could’ve been designed by a 5th grader – they lacked many innovative elements that had been present in previous dungeons – and none of them were anywhere near as good as the Stone Tower Temple from Majora’s Mask or the Spirit Temple from Ocarina of Time – two of my favorite dungeons.

Well every first dungeon is quite easy; Take ALTTP for example. Literally about 45 minutes long. LA's first dungeon is about 30 minutes long, OoT's is about 1 hour, MM's is 1 hour-1:30, WW's first dungeon's is about 1:30 and TP is about 3 hours. Skywards Sword is inbetween, about 2 hours.

Another issue I had was the use of the harp. The Ocarina in both Ocarina of Time and Majora’s Mask was a musical instrument that I felt like I was playing. The harp was a joke. The sad thing is I have always wanted to play a harp in a Zelda game, and I was ecstatic when I learned the Harp was the musical instrument of Skyward Sword. Playing it is an unfortunate chore that I tried to avoid at all costs – like something out of Wii Music.

I had no trouble, it isn't that hard. Eh, just me. [break]You troll[/break]

The next thing I felt this game lacked was a bustling metropolis. Ocarina of Time had Castle Town, Majora’s Mask had Clocktown, Wind Waker had Windfall Island, and Twilight Princess had Castle Town. All Skyward Sword has is Skyloft – a tiny city compared to the biggest ones in other games. I was hoping for a large city beneath the clouds, but no city was there to meet my wishes.

Are you kidding? There is A LOT in Skyloft. Upgrading weapons, mixing potions, buying from a merchant, seeing the future, a lot of NPC's to talk with and a lot more. Also, it is pretty much bigger than Clock Town, OoT Hyrule Castle and Windfall, and just smaller than TP CT

Because Skyward Sword lacked so many different elements that make Zelda great, I have decided that it was the worst 3D title – not the worst in the series, but nowhere near the top.

So what was so bad about the 2D games? The CD-i games were only licensed by Nintendo, Phillips made them. And there are flaws in all Zelda games, but I haven't encountered any in this game.

This brings me to my next point – I just can’t see how people are calling this the best Zelda game when it is nowhere near as good as any other 3D Zelda title? Am I the only one who thinks that Skyward Sword was a disappointment? Or is everyone else jumping on the perfect score bandwagon?

Wait, so you are stating your opinion as a fact?
Mmmm, talk about arrogant.

 

[4815162342]

No, that's your opinion. If that was a fact, why would it be getting very high scores and beating some of the highly anticipated games?

I'm sorry, but have you taken an elementary english class? An assertion, also known as a thesis statement, is an opinion supported by facts. That was my opinion, yes, and then I went on to support it with facts. Never in my argument did I state that that was a fact. And to answer your questions regarding the bloated reviews - many gave it a perfect score because it's Zelda. Their high anticipation for the game drove them to give it a perfect score, one that was much higher than it should've been because the game is nowhere near perfect. It may be a solid game, but it is not perfect. I would also like to add that the high scores that it received are also OPINIONS, not FACTS. You're the one mixing definitions here, not me.

No, you simply are rushing it. You should be taking it in, and not rushing to the finish. I am just going to ask. How many items do you have? Hearts? Pieces of Hearts? Bugs?

If you would've taken the time to read everything I had written, I do discuss that I in fact collected all the heart pieces, all of the bugs, all of the items, all of the upgrades, and all of the gratitude crystals. I tried to extend my playtime as long as I could. Am I 100% complete with the game? Probably not. But to say that I was simply rushing it is an assertion that you cannot possibly back up with any evidence.

Well every first dungeon is quite easy; Take ALTTP for example. Literally about 45 minutes long. LA's first dungeon is about 30 minutes long, OoT's is about 1 hour, MM's is 1 hour-1:30, WW's first dungeon's is about 1:30 and TP is about 3 hours. Skywards Sword is inbetween, about 2 hours.

Funny, I also talked about dungeon length earlier... It's clear you didn't read that either. Anyway, the Skyview Temple took me between 30 and 45 minutes to complete, along with most of the other dungeons in the game. But as was already discussed earlier, dungeons vary from player to player based on the ability to solve puzzles.

Are you kidding? There is A LOT in Skyloft. Upgrading weapons, mixing potions, buying from a merchant, seeing the future, a lot of NPC's to talk with and a lot more. Also, it is pretty much bigger than Clock Town, OoT Hyrule Castle and Windfall, and just smaller than TP CT

What do you mean am I kidding? Of course I'm not kidding. Skyloft was a joke! It was nowhere near as full of things to do as Clocktown was from Majora's Mask. In Skyloft, the Bazaar was the only building worth spending time in, the NPCs were flat and boring, and the sidequests to do didn't take long at all. And how can something be "pretty much bigger" than another thing? It's either bigger, or it's not. And in Skyloft's case. It's NOT bigger and NOT better than any other urban area in a Zelda game.

So what was so bad about the 2D games? The CD-i games were only licensed by Nintendo, Phillips made them. And there are flaws in all Zelda games, but I haven't encountered any in this game.

When did I ever mention 2D games? I never said anything bad about them - I love them just as much as any other Zelda game, I just rank them differently than the 3D games. It's funny that you also admitted there are flaws in ALL Zelda games, and then you go on to say that there are NO flaws in Skyward Sword - which, the last time I checked, is a Zelda game. I agree, there are flaws in ALL Zelda games, and Skyward Sword is full of them! Just read my previous arguments on the issues that I, along with many other players, had with it!

Wait, so you are stating your opinion as a fact?
Mmmm, talk about arrogant.

For the last time, did I ever state my opinions as fact? NO. I stated my opinion, and then used facts to back it up. Maybe if you actually read them you would know. And how is that arrogant!?! I was simply stating my opinion. If anyone is arrogant, it's you for thinking that your opinions about the game are the correct ones and mine are not. Next time you go out to argue for something you believe in, actually put some effort into it to avoid further embarrassment.

 

[JuicieJ]

JucieJ, I think you have my issue pretty well summed up. I set the bar far too high for Skyward Sword, so it's my own fault that I'm not loving it. However, I still disagree with you on the opinion/bias argument. I believe that a game is considered "great" if everyone has a high opinion of it. How else could greatness be determined other than the opinion of the masses? And you have to be biased somehow, bias only means that you have an opinion about something. Based on your arguments countering my arguments, It's pretty clear that you're biased towards Skyward Sword. Because you think that it's one of the finest Zelda games insinuates a certain level of bias. And when you talk about how good a game is, you are including some level of bias in your opinionated analysis. There is no way that one could describe how good a game is without including bias.

Well, we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[Ronin]

The next thing I felt this game lacked was a bustling metropolis. Ocarina of Time had Castle Town, Majora’s Mask had Clocktown, Wind Waker had Windfall Island, and Twilight Princess had Castle Town. All Skyward Sword has is Skyloft – a tiny city compared to the biggest ones in other games. I was hoping for a large city beneath the clouds, but no city was there to meet my wishes.

Do you know nothing of Skyward Sword's storyline? Years before Link was born monsters arose and overwhelmed the inhabitants of the land below. But the goddess Hylia, who watched over them, appeared and met the frightened denizens upon a protruding piece of land. With her divine powers she tore the mass of land from its earthen core and levitated it far above the nefarious forces ravenous for the annihilation of all opposers. And the people settled there, built houses at first, but then fortified walls and ultimately a Knight's Academy. They thrived amongst the clouds for a time unknown to me, far from the insatiable blazes of a broiling war...

But how does this play against your statements? Ah yes, here we have something! Below the monsters ransacked whatever habitations the Skyloftians left behind, destroying their earthly abodes and turning battlements of stone to dust. Because they're more suited for the wild--as any wild beast is--they sought not to construct shelter for their selves (though on Eldin Volcano it was more needed). In other, clearer words I'm certain, they destroyed all the villages, save for a few like the Temples and such, and if they ever came across a surviving being outside their own clan they harassed and did away with them as they pleased. The Goron and Kikwi(s) are two such targets I mean.

This brings me to my next point – I just can’t see how people are calling this the best Zelda game when it is nowhere near as good as any other 3D Zelda title? Am I the only one who thinks that Skyward Sword was a disappointment? Or is everyone else jumping on the perfect score bandwagon?

Mayhap this is due to you seeking out the bad aspects solitarily. Search also for the good attributes, let them mingle with the bad, and over time all the delicious awesomeness of this resplendent title shall wash away whatever doubts lingering in your psyche.

 

[Dio]

You bring up all the faults I had with it but there are some things I disagree with.

Skyward Sword lacked a majestic over world full of things to do

It lacks a majestic overworld-TRUE, but my problem is that there is allot to do(the puzzle elements which make up almost the entirety of the surface world) just not the things you might want to do.

The next issue I had with Skyward Sword was the dungeon design.

Stereotypical Zelda dungeons you said. We need some of that so that it is still Zelda. The majority were not stereotypical: Mining facility!Was incredibly well thought out. When have we ever had conveyor belts and missile firing floaty thingies and electricity?
You mentioned Ancient Cistern and Sandship, but Sky Keep was also an original idea. So that is 4 out of 7 I think, more than half the dungeons were innovative and original.

I still rank SS as second to both OOT and TP which I can't decide between, my reasoning for that you will be able to see. I love the ability to talk to lots of different races and people, in TP especially the Gorons and the numerous Hyrule market villagers really add something that I just love about Zelda, I was dissapointed, like you with the absence of a bustling metropolis. I say SS has many minor flaws rather than allot of major ones. WW had the annoying tingle fetch quest, which basically means that hours of the game are actually not fun at all, no joy to be had, the hours spent on that quest are tedious and I hate them. For that reason along with the irritation I feel about the uselessness of Makar and Medli in the Wind and Earth temples respectively, WW can never be top for me. Also the other 3D title Majoras Mask, was too short, the majority of it was side content, and I rarely partake of side content. 4 dungeons only, it's not enough for me and therefore left me unsatisfied. SS had the problem of no large city like area, annoying flight mechanic( not as bad as the boat and changing winds though), overworld was like a dungeon I want to see beautiful sights and leisurely ride through, to view them. The fact of the matter is though SS delivered hours of fun, many dungeons, most of which were fun, the best funnest boss in Zelda (Koloktos) and the most cinematic cutscenes yet. The game tops WW and MM, but not for the most part OOT and TP. That means it is not the worst 3D zelda. After I play it a few times I shall find the stuff that is tedious and will probably end up moaning about it but as it is these are my complaints for now.

 

[Forlong]

Three dungeons, Link has to power up his blade [plot twist], more dungeons, get dat golden power, fight final boss and happy ending. There you go, ALttP formula in a nutshell.

Apparently, you need to read what a plot twist actually is, because that isn't it. Two things have to happen for there to be a plot twist:

1. Something previously unknown has be revealed.
2. The basis of the plot changes afterwards.

Where is this completely unknown and shocking information we get after the third dungeon? The Imprisoned and/or the fact that we have to power up our sword? Maybe. But it definitely didn't change the direction of the plot. It was the same as before: find Zelda. After you do find Zelda, now that's a plot twist. We're given a lot of information that was completely unknown to us and came right out of left field, then our goal completely changed. You didn't have to find Zelda anymore, so now it's time to destroy Demise.

You can't take a full length game, copy and paste it with some added restrictions, and then say your game is twice as long. Because it really isn't That's not 80 hours of new material. It's really only 35. Expectation management, Nintendo, expectation management...

Never trust the gameplay hours they give you. I never did. I don't care if it takes 2 hours or 100 hours to finish a game as long as I enjoy it.

Exactly, so when I read that Nintendo was going to change the dungeon pattern in the game, I thought they were going to change the 3 dungeons, plot twist, more dungeons, final boss. Which is why I was let down when I thought the dungeon pattern would be something completely new like in Majora' Mask.

Okay, I can understand why you have a bit of a problem there. Nintendo didn't play to your own expectations.

I look at it by both - Majora's Mask was one of the smallest areas by size, but it completely made up for it in content. Every square inch of Termina had something to do. The same cannot be said about the world of Skyward Sword. It was vast, I'll give it that. But the world - above the clouds and below - lacked a solid number of people to interact with. Below the clouds, there were only monsters to kill, not people to help. And above the clouds, Skyloft had some characters - but no sidequests nearly as deep as the Anju and Kafei quest from Majora's Mask.

Er...wasn't the fact that the surface wasn't inhabited important to the plot? Criticizing a game for a lack of NPCs seems rather cheap (especially when that is part of the PLOT). You know what other game doesn't have a lot of NPCs? "Portal"! Isn't that the best video game ever made? Its not what you have, its how you use it.

Let's talk about Anju and Kafei, they were a pair of idiots. Okay, so Kafei was cursed...why wasn't he looking for a way to cure himself? It isn't like magic was completely alien to Termina, so that was kind of dumb. It also took forever to get the sidequest done. If I ever get to finishing it, it will only be so that I can watch the moon kill those idiots for wasting my time.

In contrast, when a character gave me a love letter for one of our classmates, I did it without caring what was in it for me. I just wanted to know what would happen next. And this was that jerk who kept throwing eggs at me during the race. So...its easier to care about the least developed character in SS than any characters in MM...

You can enjoy MM more, I can understand if you do; but the NPCs in that game are annoying doodooheads.

Cutting through natural barriers was charming and witty? I found it to be a chore - nowhere near as good as grabbing a deku stick, running to a torch, and using that to destroy spider webs. The Earth Temple's only new addition was the Super Monkey Ball portion, but the fact that we're naming that action after another game shows that it's nothing revolutionary to gaming at all. I praised time shift stones in my earlier argument, for I believe those to be the greatest part of Skyward Sword. But sand traps - nothing new at all. And I have most definitely used water to solidify lava in a video game before. I found them to be the opposite of well designed compared to the list of dungeons that I described in an earlier argument.

If you're going to mark a game down for not being original, you might want to start with MM. I'm just saying. In fact, why don't we mark down OoT, while we're at it? Maybe because that doesn't actually tell us anything about the game?
I'm fully aware that SS rips off Harry Potter, Naruto, Indiana Jones, Shadow of the Colossus, Persona 4, No More Heroes, Prince of Persia, and probably a lot of other stuff I can't remember. That doesn't matter. What matters is that it does what it does well.
It isn't just the quality of each gimmick, but the vast number of them and how exclusive they are. Each area has it's own puzzles that don't repeat in other areas. That makes those timeshift stones you like even better, because they don't overstay their welcome. The worst thing you can do to an amazing gimmick is make it routine. Variety is the spice of life and routine is the starch.

Ocarina of Time may have had a few more NPCs, but Majora's Mask had way more. So many that Skyward Sword should be embarrassed. What Nintendo did in two years between 1998 and 2000 was far more detailed than what Nintendo did in five between 2006 and 2011. I would've been a lot happier with Nintendo had they used the Twilight Princess engine and worked on building a detailed, intricate sequel to Twilight Princess instead of a game that felt less than half baked. And the NPCs are complete idiots in Skyward Sword - "Oh no, I lost my rattle and I haven't slept for three days, so I'm just going to stand here and shake my baby because that's really doing a lot instead of going out and trying to find a solution" - yeah, because that makes perfect sense.

Wait, a moment ago, weren't you complaining about SS being the same old thing? Now your complaining about it not being enough like TP? You can't have it both ways, kid.

Also, how was the guy not looking for his kid's rattle stupid? Um...didn't a bird carry it off? How would he know where it was? And even if he did, how would he get it!? Not like he had a hookshot and parachute! Certainly makes more sense than: "take this letter to my boyfriend because I'm to frickin' lazy to look for him myself."

If you would've taken the time to read everything I had written, I do discuss that I in fact collected all the heart pieces, all of the bugs, all of the items, all of the upgrades, and all of the gratitude crystals. I tried to extend my playtime as long as I could. Am I 100% complete with the game? Probably not. But to say that I was simply rushing it is an assertion that you cannot possibly back up with any evidence.

Isn't the fact that you took the time to go 100% a point in the game's favor. I'm sure trying it, despite I never got 100% in OoT.

What do you mean am I kidding? Of course I'm not kidding. Skyloft was a joke! It was nowhere near as full of things to do as Clocktown was from Majora's Mask. In Skyloft, the Bazaar was the only building worth spending time in, the NPCs were flat and boring, and the sidequests to do didn't take long at all. And how can something be "pretty much bigger" than another thing? It's either bigger, or it's not. And in Skyloft's case. It's NOT bigger and NOT better than any other urban area in a Zelda game.

Funny, because Clocktown gave you exactly nothing to do, unless you like pointless sidequests with no incentive to complete them. Yeah...sign me up...-.-

 

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You stated several times that Skyward Sword was the worst 3D game in the series and did so as if it were a fact. When in fact, it's merely your opinion. And yes, it did come accross as arrogant. Since talking to you, I can see that you weren't being arrogant, it was merely your choice of words that made it appear so. However, don't insult users just for a mistaken interpretation of how you were acting, and don't let it get to you either.

Please research what bias actually means. As your definition is cloudy.
Opinions aren't necessarily biased. That paragraph seemed like a petty attempt to turn around JucieJ's argument on himself. Remember, you have every right to have your opinion respected as anyone else here does. You don't have to resort to things like that.

BlueReptile, you do bring up some excellent points. I would first and foremost like to apologize if any of my opinions or assertions came off as arrogant, as that was not my intention at all. I was merely stating what I found to be faults with the game, and the purpose of this thread was to argue these points out - to see how many people agreed or disagreed with me.

My tone, which I do admit was not as nice as it should've been at moments, was probably the result of my frustration that came around because of my overly high expectations of Skyward Sword. I set the bar too high, and I did not get what I expect. However, I wanted to see if anyone else felt the same way. And yes, my choice of words could have been better at moments.

I believe Skyward Sword to be the 5th best 3D Zelda console title, which, as discussed earlier, is also the worst 3D Zelda console title. Of course it's not a solid fact, but neither are the opinions of those who believe Skyward Sword to be the best Zelda of all time. I never intended for my assertion to be taken as fact, and I'm sorry if I offended anyone who believed it to be one.

Apparently, you need to read what a plot twist actually is, because that isn't it. Two things have to happen for there to be a plot twist:

1. Something previously unknown has be revealed.
2. The basis of the plot changes afterwards.

Where is this completely unknown and shocking information we get after the third dungeon? The Imprisoned and/or the fact that we have to power up our sword? Maybe. But it definitely didn't change the direction of the plot. It was the same as before: find Zelda. After you do find Zelda, now that's a plot twist. We're given a lot of information that was completely unknown to us and came right out of left field, then our goal completely changed. You didn't have to find Zelda anymore, so now it's time to destroy Demise.

You could argue that there was a plot twist at that point - 1st, the door of time was revealed - 2nd, the drive behind your character changes. That seems like a plot twist to me.

Never trust the gameplay hours they give you. I never did. I don't care if it takes 2 hours or 100 hours to finish a game as long as I enjoy it.

Right back to being all about expectation management. I was expecting a longer game than I got.

Er...wasn't the fact that the surface wasn't inhabited important to the plot? Criticizing a game for a lack of NPCs seems rather cheap (especially when that is part of the PLOT). You know what other game doesn't have a lot of NPCs? "Portal"! Isn't that the best video game ever made? Its not what you have, its how you use it.

I agree, Portal is an awesome game. But with Skyward Sword, the surface could've easily been inhabited, the fact that nobody survived wasn't a crucial plot point - and people could've easily left Skyloft between the time of the monsters that took over the surface and the time of Link. That's easily fixed.

If you're going to mark a game down for not being original, you might want to start with MM. I'm just saying. In fact, why don't we mark down OoT, while we're at it? Maybe because that doesn't actually tell us anything about the game?
I'm fully aware that SS rips off Harry Potter, Naruto, Indiana Jones, Shadow of the Colossus, Persona 4, No More Heroes, Prince of Persia, and probably a lot of other stuff I can't remember. That doesn't matter. What matters is that it does what it does well.
It isn't just the quality of each gimmick, but the vast number of them and how exclusive they are. Each area has it's own puzzles that don't repeat in other areas. That makes those timeshift stones you like even better, because they don't overstay their welcome. The worst thing you can do to an amazing gimmick is make it routine. Variety is the spice of life and routine is the starch.

Once again, back to expectation management. I don't care if a game's not original. That wasn't my main issue with Skyward Sword. In fact, I thought Skyward Sword was more original than unoriginal. What I wrote in that paragraph was a response to someone else's point.

Wait, a moment ago, weren't you complaining about SS being the same old thing? Now your complaining about it not being enough like TP? You can't have it both ways, kid.

What I meant by that was: "If Nintendo wasn't going to do a great job on that, I would've much rather had them do this"

Isn't the fact that you took the time to go 100% a point in the game's favor. I'm sure trying it, despite I never got 100% in OoT.

Not necessarily. Skyward Sword was the first Zelda title that I played through where I had all the heart pieces going into the final battle. And that was more because I wanted the game to last as long as possible, because I found the main plot to be much shorter than expected. So I had to make up for that in sidequests.

Funny, because Clocktown gave you exactly nothing to do, unless you like pointless sidequests with no incentive to complete them. Yeah...sign me up...-.-

Funny, because Clocktown gave you way more to do than Skyloft. And if you want to talk pointless sidequests (which most are) Skyward Sword is absolutely filled with them.