Skull Kid's Timeline

[Skull_Kid]

After some time replaying the games to revive my memory(yeah, I could have just seen walkthroughs, but I prefer the real deal), I came up with a new timeline.
here it is



............/--WW/PH--ST
MC/FS--OoT
............\MM--TP--FSA--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoX

And now, let me explain.

After the release of ALttP/FS, Eiji Aonouma said that FS is the "Oldest tale", meaning that it is even before OoT.
MC is clearly a prequel to FS, so, I think that most of you agree with me.
OoT comes after, clearly, and basicly without doubts.
Don't try to argue that FSA should be placed after FS, because it would be a trainwreck, to place it here.

End of OoT, the TimeLine Splits.

Adult timeline gets WW, followed by PH as a direct sequel, and ST, wich is NOT a direct sequel.

Child Timeline gets MM, wich is a direct sequel to OoT, so, no doubts here.
After MM, comes TP, wich was stated by the creators where it should be placed, so, don't try to argue here as well.

At the end of TP, Ganondorf's human form dies, and, presumably we see the Triforce leaving him.

I finished FSA yesterday, after a almost ininterrupted playthrough of it, and I have the quotes in mind, also, you can always check the thread I posted that's in the "Other Zelda" section.
Through the game, and specially in the Desert of Doubt portion, the Gerudos(yes, somehow they are here but not in TP, I have no reason to that, but this is the most logical placement for it) mention Ganondorf, and mention him going to the Pyramid where the Trident of Power rests as A MAN, not a demon.
Wich means that this game has a whole new Ganondorf...
Also, Zelda mentions him as " AN OLD DEMON REBORN".
The game features a Dark World very similar to ALttP's, the eradication of the knights of Hyrule, and the Imprisoning of Ganon at the end.
This can well be the Imprisoning War mentioned in ALttP's back story.
At the end of FSA, Ganon is imprisoned in the Four Sword, wich appears broken in the Four Sword Palace in the GBA version of ALttP(wich is canon).
After all this explaining, ALttP is a sequel to FSA(not a direct one, though), followed by LA(this is HIGHLY debatable, but I still believe that LA is still a direct sequel, as no other solid proof appeared contradicting it.)

After a long time comes LoZ, followed by AoL.
The problem of these two specific games is that they are SO vague that they can be putted almost anywhere, but I think that they fit quite well here.

I chosed to end the timeline with the Oracle Games, considering that Ganon starts out dead as at the end of AoL, the Triforce is complete(I highly doubt that Link would get to keep it, at the end of AoL, and, no matter what, this is a different Link), and they have to be in the Child Timeline because Ganon still possesses the famous Trident he acquired in FSA.

This games' placement is very debatable, as I've seen some people placing it in the Adult Timeline, and as a sequel to ALttP.
i've given the reason why they CAN'T be on the Adult Timeline, and, they don't seem like ALttP's sequels to me.
Link has a BOAT in LA, and in OOX he departs in a RAFT, see?Boat, raft... completely different.
I believe that this Link is NOT related to the one of ALTTP/LA.

Well, discuss, and please, don't insult just because you disagree, instead, show me your points

 

[MrMosley]

........../--WW/PH--ST
MC/FS--OoT
............\MM--TP--FSA--ALttP/LA--LoZ/AoL--OoX

And now, let me explain.

After the release of ALttP/FS, Eiji Aonouma said that FS is the "Oldest tale", meaning that it is even before OoT.
MC is clearly a prequel to FS, so, I think that most of you agree with me.
OoT comes after, clearly, and basicly without doubts.
Don't try to argue that FSA should be placed after FS, because it would be a trainwreck, to place it here.

This is the first thing I don't agree with. Maybe for its time, FS was the oldest tale. And althought I really hate to get into discussions about the placement of MC and FS in a timeline, I have to say that of the videos I have seen from FS and FSA, I believe they are direct sequels. The opening vid of FSA talks about both tales in the Four Swords Saga, first with MC, then with FS, and then leads into FSA. There is the whole thing about "Vaati kidnapping many young girls" during the MC portion that people fuss over, but ahh, the rest is apparently correct.

In the second tale, the portion describing FS, the intro gives Link and Zelda names. In the first tale, the one about MC, it simply refers to Link as a hero or a young boy. This tells me that since the intro knows of Link and Zelda, it must be the current Link and Zelda to be talking of them so personally. This same argument goes for the first tale, as it sounds more like a legend, taking place long ago. So that rules out the possibility of FS being a direct sequel to MC in my opinion, that the opening obviously does not refer to them as the same person, and makes it easier to accept that FS and FSA Link and Zelda might be the same people, which is what I believe.

I finished FSA yesterday, after a almost ininterrupted playthrough of it, and I have the quotes in mind, also, you can always check the thread I posted that's in the "Other Zelda" section.
Through the game, and specially in the Desert of Doubt portion, the Gerudos(yes, somehow they are here but not in TP, I have no reason to that, but this is the most logical placement for it) mention Ganondorf, and mention him going to the Pyramid where the Trident of Power rests as A MAN, not a demon.
Wich means that this game has a whole new Ganondorf...
Also, Zelda mentions him as " AN OLD DEMON REBORN".

Yes I remember watching the ending and seeing that quote. Really, that quote can be interpreted many ways. "Ancient Demon Reborn", would literally refer to an ancienct demon being reincarnated into a new body, which some people believe. There are those who thing Ganon is a separate entity that Ganondorf was destined to become, or became upon taking the Trident, which some also theorize held the spirit of the Ancient Demon. Those theories, though, can really mess with the timeline, and I like to think that whether or not Ganon the beast is an ancient demon, Ganondorf has always been the same entity.

I still agree with your placement of FSA, but I have to say I don't agree with your theory of a different Ganondorf. He obviously did not die at the end of TP. The Triforce lost its glow on Link once through the game as well if I remember correctly, so no longer does this symbolize death for me. Its more likely, and would connect to FSA better, if after the ending of TP, Ganondorf somehow managed to escape and return to the Gerudo desert.

I chosed to end the timeline with the Oracle Games, considering that Ganon starts out dead as at the end of AoL, the Triforce is complete(I highly doubt that Link would get to keep it, at the end of AoL, and, no matter what, this is a different Link), and they have to be in the Child Timeline because Ganon still possesses the famous Trident he acquired in FSA.

This is fine. A lot of people end their timelines w/ OoX, which is okay. I like to place it after LA actually, not as a direct sequel. Twinrova's presence in the game is what gets me, so I want to have it as close to OoT as possible to reconsile Koume and Kotakes absense throughout the games. I know, they weren't created during those titles, but games that come in between such as ALttP have been remade since the old days; Have been remade way after the Oracle's release, yet they did not add any mention of Koume and Kotake. Maybe its just not important, maybe they didn't think about it, but I find it awfully weird for them to not get involved in the affairs throughout the entire series until the very end.

Plus, Ganon's resemblance from ALttP and OoX is quite close, and there are also some bosses like Agahnim, who are not really canon of course, that make cameo appearances. All of this related back to ALttP and OoT in the end, as OoX apparently takes a lot of its plot from characters, designs, and stories of those two games.

 

[Tingle]

On FS placement

This is a quote from the FSA manual

"Long ago in the inner reaches of Hyrule, an evil wind sorcerer known as Vaati began kidnapping young maidens, one after another"

This can only be the events of MC as nobody knows who he is until MC and so he cant have been a threat if nobody knows him also Vaati was a picori i think not a wind mage.

"After that a long time passed"

Ok a large period of time between MC and FS but we dont know how long the length of time between MC and OOT is. This kinda fefeats your theory Skull Kid of FS being a direct sequel to MC

"Zelda's chilhood friend, a young boy named Link, claimed the strange power of the four sword and fought Vaati fiercely. In the end , he succeeded in sealing Vaati away once again"

And so peace was restored to Hyrule once again. Or so everyone thought"

Ok childhood friends yes just like in FSA but that would have to mean that Vaati escaped twice in quick succession and Im pretty sure thats not the case, one reason for this is Ganon is a lot more powerful than Vaati IMO and so why would they seal Ganon in the four sword if it would last for a pitiful amount of time or not at all.

On New Ganon in FSA:

"The village is in a bit of
an uproar contending with
a man who broke our laws."

"To have a criminal such as
him enter... His presence
stains its holy ground."

"Yet the man has gone there
by himself. All for the sake
of his own mad desire!"

"But this child, its heart
grew twisted with every
passing year."

"The child became a man
who hungered for power
at any price."

"Curse that Ganondorf!
He broke our laws and
left for the pyramid...

I don't know what he plans,
but I am worried..."

"Yes, this Ganondorf you
speak of is a member of
the Gerudo."

"But his intent is unknown to
me. He has flouted the law
and fled for the pyramid."

"The villain Ganondorf will
no doubt draw his last
breath failing this trial."

"The man who came from the
south a while back gave off
bad vibes."

"Hear now the doom of the
knights. We were bested by
a foe with a mighty weapon."

"He cast us into the Dark
World, were we and the
jewels were lost in shadow."

"The man that defeated us
is also the same man who
created that shadowy imp."

These are all quotes from the Desert of Doubt about Ganon/dorf, what we learn is that They refer to him as a man, a criminal and a villain, he is of a reasonable age and he was previously called Ganondorf, the gerudo only just say that he broke their laws but surely if this was the same Ganon as OOT and TP the he would have previously broken them. His intent is unknown and they are confident he will fall to the pyramid meaning they are not confident (unusual if he had previoulsy taken over Hyrule twice), the Zuna say he gave off bad vibes even they would knoiw of the history of ganon if it was OOt/TP Ganon and he also created Shadow Link (Not necessarily the one from OOT)

 

[Zemen]

"Long ago in the inner reaches of Hyrule, an evil wind sorcerer known as Vaati began kidnapping young maidens, one after another"

This can only be the events of MC as nobody knows who he is until MC and so he cant have been a threat if nobody knows him also Vaati was a picori i think not a wind mage.

This doesn't necessarily mean that it can ONLY be the events of MC. This BS actually doesn't give any indication that this is the first time that Vaati was run into. No where does it say "an UNKNOWN wind sorcerer Vaati" it was just merely stating his name. I really don't see how this implies that this is the first run in with Vaati.

The entire FS series is made completely out of order. The middle game was made first, the last game was made second and the first game was made last. For all we know, There is another FS series game that will take place before FS that fits perfectly with its BS.

"After that a long time passed"

Ok a large period of time between MC and FS but we dont know how long the length of time between MC and OOT is. This kinda fefeats your theory Skull Kid of FS being a direct sequel to MC

All it says is a long time passed so this all depends on what you consider a long time.

For example, ten years from now I will be 29 years old. That's a long time from now. When I tell stories about my crazy antics from when I was 19, I will say "wow a long time has passed since those days."

Usually in the Zelda series, they tell you specifically hundreds of years but all it says is a long time, so, as I said before, it all depends on what you consider a long time to be.

Ok childhood friends yes just like in FSA

You do know that they were childhood friends in MC too, right?

On New Ganon in FSA:

I don't believe it's a new Ganon. Maybe it's a new Ganondorf (human) but I think the spirit of Ganon is always the same.

 

[Tingle]

That was just a title as they were discussing a new ganon but as it says in my evidence they call him ganondorf and i acknowledge that.

The Zelda series is notorious for long periods of time to mean atleast beyond a generation, otherwise why didnt they say years, months or seasons as stated in other games

Yes I do know they were chilhood friends in MC aswell as FS, FSA and ALttP

You cant really call a bit of evidence to be related to a non existent (at this point) game as that is just pure speculation with no evidence.

 

[Zemen]

Yes I do know they were chilhood friends in MC aswell as FS, FSA and ALttP

Umm...I don't recall them being childhood friends in ALTTP.

His uncle was a royal guard or something and Link was called upon by Zelda to save her after his uncle had failed.

When she was calling to him she even had to introduce herself as Zelda, the princess. They weren't childhood friends.

You cant really call a bit of evidence to be related to a non existent (at this point) game as that is just pure speculation with no evidence.

I understand it's pure speculation but it's either that or we believe that MC is spoken of in the BS of FSA even though the BS of FSA literally doesn't match up at all with the story of MC (except that there was a villain named Vaati).

 

[sign of table]

Link has a BOAT in LA, and in OOX he departs in a RAFT, see?Boat, raft... completely different.
I believe that this Link is NOT related to the one of ALTTP/LA.

Umm... no. OoX boat is about as boat as you get. Rafts = no sails. OoX boat has a sail. Therefore it is a boat.

 

[MrMosley]

Umm... no. OoX boat is about as boat as you get. Rafts = no sails. OoX boat has a sail. Therefore it is a boat.

Sign is correct:

The boats look quite similar, but I hate using this as an example for OoX being before LA. I still believe LA comes after ALttP, and until we get an actual timeline that proves otherwise, that's what I'll likely believe. I've heard every example from both sides and I just would rather think about it in a more simple sense, which is that LA was originally intended to be the sequel to ALttP, and the Oracles never advertised or mentioned anything in their manuals about them taking its place.

 

[sign of table]

^I don't want to spam this thread with off topic (although it wouldn't be very offtopic since it applies to the OPs timeline) but there are a few things to say about that.

LttP never advertised or mentioned anything in its manual about LA going after it. The only reason why people placed LA after it was because LttP was the third game and LA was the 4th and LA's BS simply fit LttP better. Now there's OoX which fits the LA backstory just as well and the ending leads perfectly into LA.

 

[Zemen]

Now there's OoX which fits the LA backstory just as well

LA says that Link defeated Ganon and brought peace to Hyrule and went off to to train in foreign countries and then on his way back to Hyrule he had his LA adventure.

I don't see how this fits well with OoX at all. It doesn't say anywhere that Link had a huge adventure in different countries (holodrum/labrynna). The adventures he had in those places seem like a lot more than mere training, to me. It also says in the LA BS that he had just gotten done defeating Ganon. Technically, the guy you fight at the end isn't Ganon. It's some messed up, half baked version of him that wasn't fully ressurected. If OoX was intended to be a prequel, it would have been the full blown Ganon in order to fit the BS of LA and there would have been some mentioning of him intending to train but instead getting thrust into an adventure.

Also, LA BS says that Link went off to train in foreign lands, he definitely doesn't set sail off on training in OoX, he is teleported against his will to Labrynna/Holodrum. If they really wanted it to be a prequel then they could have made Link sail to Labrynna/Holodrum. Would have been an easy change.

Since there has been no retcon of LA, and since there is obvious intention of it being a sequel to ALTTP, I'm gonna stick with it going after ALTTP.

and the ending leads perfectly into LA.

The part of the ending that leads perfectly into LA is the fact that he leaves on a boat.

I have argued this before so I will do it again. How else did you want him to leave Holodrum/Labrynna? There aren't airplanes to take him to where he needs to go. The Triforce only teleported him because he was needed there and since peace was brought back to Hyrule there was no need for his heroism so the Triforce didn't need to help him out. The only other way to get back to his home is by taking a boat.

Yes, the boats look alike, but as it has been mentioned in other threads, many of the sprites in OoX were taken from LA because the games ran on basically the same graphics engine. It would be stupid to remake a boat design when they have a previous one to use. Also, what would be the point of completely changing the design on the boat? In order for it to be clear that LA isn't after OoX would you want the boat to be a different color? A general color for old style boats is wood (brown) with a sail. It's not like it's such an extravagant boat that it could never possibly be replicated. It's simply just a wooden boat. Seems pretty common to me. Doesn't seem so uncommon that it HAS to be the same boat in both games.


The only arguments I have ever heard for OoX being before LA is the stupid boat and the similar monsters (which can be explained by reused sprites) and I just explained why those are pretty useless pieces of evidence.

 

[Skull_Kid]

I just want to point out something.
As Zemen said, I don't also believe that it is a different Ganon, only a different Ganondorf.
It is pretty reasonable, and makes both the Gerudo quotes and the Zelda quote that says that he's "An Ancient Demon Reborn" perfectly reasonable.

Okay, so, I made a mistake in what concerns the Boat at the end of OoX.sorry.

And no, in ALttP, Link and Zelda were NOT childhood friends.
He first meets her in Hyrule Castle's Dungeon.

 

[sign of table]

I don't see how this fits well with OoX at all. It doesn't say anywhere that Link had a huge adventure in different countries (holodrum/labrynna).

What says that Link leaving in OoX isn't to go train?

The adventures he had in those places seem like a lot more than mere training, to me.

Exactly. The events of OoX is him returning peace to Hyrule.

It's some messed up, half baked version of him that wasn't fully ressurected.

It's a mindless Ganon. Still a Ganon. Still defeating Ganon to return peace to Hyrule.

If OoX was intended to be a prequel, it would have been the full blown Ganon in order to fit the BS of LA

No. All that is required is for Ganon to be defeated to return peace to Hyrule. Stop making crap up.

and there would have been some mentioning of him intending to train but instead getting thrust into an adventure.

If GBA LttP was meant to be the prequel to LA they would have mentioned him intending to train. u c wat i did thar?

Also, LA BS says that Link went off to train in foreign lands, he definitely doesn't set sail off on training in OoX, he is teleported against his will to Labrynna/Holodrum. If they really wanted it to be a prequel then they could have made Link sail to Labrynna/Holodrum. Would have been an easy change.

But as you said, Holodrum/Labrynna wasn't mere training. So why would they screw it up by making it fit that? Holodrum/Labrynna is the first part of the LA BS where he defeats Ganon and returns peace to Hyrule. Him leaving in the end would be him leaving to train.

The part of the ending that leads perfectly into LA is the fact that he leaves on a boat.

I have argued this before so I will do it again. How else did you want him to leave Holodrum/Labrynna? There aren't airplanes to take him to where he needs to go. The Triforce only teleported him because he was needed there and since peace was brought back to Hyrule there was no need for his heroism so the Triforce didn't need to help him out. The only other way to get back to his home is by taking a boat.

They didn't need to show him leaving, and it's implied that he's leaving Hyrule (not Holodrum/Labrynna) at the end.

Yes, the boats look alike, but as it has been mentioned in other threads, many of the sprites in OoX were taken from LA because the games ran on basically the same graphics engine.

Sure for enemies. But the boats AREN'T identical. LA the sail is down, OoX the sail is up. That's not reusing sprites. That's deliberate.

It's simply just a wooden boat. Seems pretty common to me. Doesn't seem so uncommon that it HAS to be the same boat in both games.

Show me LttP Link's boat.

When it comes down to it, OoX ends setting up LA perfectly. LttP has no shown boat, OoX does.

Also, what evidence is there for LttP/LA?

 

[Skull_Kid]

Link didn't have a boat in ALttP.

Also, as for evidence in what concerns LA/ALttP, it was stated in LA's manual and box, and, it hasn't been mentioned by any of the creators, so, it is to assume that it stays the same.

 

[Tingle]

Link didn't have a boat in ALttP.

Also, as for evidence in what concerns LA/ALttP, it was stated in LA's manual and box, and, it hasn't been mentioned by any of the creators, so, it is to assume that it stays the same.

Didnt Aunoma say just after OOT was released that the timeline was OOT - ALttP - LoZ/AoL and that LA could go just about anywhere and that it wasnt really important. That didnt sound like LA was a direct sequel to ALttP at the time and as you said I assume it stays the same.

 

[Skull_Kid]

No, he didn't... At least I never saw that quote, nor anyone used it.
I am pretty sure you are mistaking something.