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Should Nintendo Go Third Party?

Cfrock

Keep it strong
Joined
Mar 17, 2012
Location
Liverpool, England
How is feeling like you are literally in the game a "low level" of immersion? I get like that plenty of times. I got like that with Morrowind so much that I started calling people n'wahs in real life. It's not that we define immersion differently, it's that we think it relies upon different things: you think graphics and camera perspective are the most important elements while I think anything and everything in a game can do the job of pulling you in.
 

Cfrock

Keep it strong
Joined
Mar 17, 2012
Location
Liverpool, England
It can pull you in emotionally, which is what you're taking about. However. third person camera and poor graphics are bad if you actually want to feel like you're the character.

That's not what I'm talking about, not exclusively. I wasn't emotionally invested in Super Mario 3D Land, or Civilisation V, or Resident Evil 6's Mercenaries mode, or Discworld 2: Missing presumed...!?, or Mario Kart 7, or... The list goes on. What I'm talking about is that a game doesn't have to grab you emotionally or make you feel specifically like you are in the game to be immersive.
 

Musicfan

the shadow mage
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Location
insanity
Graphics=/= low level immersion

The two sound exactly the same

You explore the world and experience the character's experiences. Also it seems you have no imagination if you need high "quality" graphics for "low immersion"
 

Cfrock

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Location
Liverpool, England
I'm not talking about any kind of immersion specifically. I'm saying that things like gameplay, music, art style, level design, competition, challenge, and story are just as important to any kind of immersion as pure graphical power.

"Low level" immersion, as you call it, feeling like you are actually in the game, can be achieved without the latest graphics card or a camera wedged into a character's face. I have genuinely yelled out in terror while playing Resident Evil 4 because I felt like I was in real physical danger. I've run around the Nintendo Land plaza and 'Ooh'd' and 'Ahh'd' at the attractions and props like a small child because I felt like I was really a bright and vibrant theme park. I've paid to go and watch movies in GTA V because I felt like relaxing a while. I held my breath when playing Lylat Wars while I concentrated on not getting shot, like it would actually hurt me in real life if I did. Listening to the sounds of the accordians in any Prof. Layton game transports me into that world, in which Japanese artists seem to confuse an idealised version of England with an idealised version of France for some reason. I've winced with guilt as my men have died in Advance Wars, believing that they'd be alive if I were only better. I've put so much effort into beating people at Street Fighter that I've been physically tired after rounds. And who hasn't tilted their controller to turn in Mario Kart, Ridge Racer, Gran Turismo, or any other racing game?

I've felt like I was actually in more game worlds than I can list, and the majority of them were not first-person and lacked 'cutting-edge' graphics. My point simply is, and always has been, that immersion of any kind, whether it's "low" or "high", can be achieved through things other than graphical output.
 

Musicfan

the shadow mage
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Do you people actually understand what what low-level means in a computer science context?

Because if you people understood that concept, you'd see that low-level immersion requires all I've said it does. You people are still describiting high-level immersion. "Oh, but I still *feel* like I'm the character" or "But I can just use my imagination". That's what's called "high-level". High degree of abstraction. Low-level means no intermediate layer (ie: imagination). Assembly code in a sense, with the hardware bring your brain. You guys are all thinking in Java.

Seriously, is there even anyone else here that has studied CompSci?
Then there is no such thing as low level immersion because it would require some form of imagination to be immersed in the game. The only type of immersion that exists is High level.
 

Cfrock

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Location
Liverpool, England
You people are still describiting high-level immersion. "Oh, but I still *feel* like I'm the character"

Which is what you described "low level" immersion as.
Low-level immersion mandates making you feel like you're the character.

What you're changing it to now is that any slight use of imagination automatically means it is "high level", which means you've never experienced it with a video game either. You are not called Master Chief so in Halo you have to edit that out, which involves imagination. In Skyrim, you have to pretend that your mouse click is the action of drawing a bow or swinging a sword, which involves imagination. In Half-Life 2 you have to pretend that Gordon Freeman talks to his friends, which involves imagination. Video games require imagination on some level no matter what.

It sounds to me like you just can't see how there are other ways to achieve the immersion you say none of us have had. If you're going to use your own definitions of terms and then mess around with them when its convenient then there's really no point in talking about this at all. It's not my fault you need fancy graphics to feel emotions.
 

Musicfan

the shadow mage
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Yeah, there is, it's called MBI (object code). At at a slightly higher level (Assembly), things like the Oculus Rift and Virtuix Omni.

You sound like a student starting CompSci in high school, not knowing about the technical details about compilation and low-level code, but being vested in high-level code. The student then states that low-level code doesn't exist cause he's never encountered it. All he does is hit that magic compile button. Lol.

You're not even thinking C++, you're thinking Java. You have to run in a VM, but you deny it's existence.



I'm using computer science conventions to define immersion. Not mine.
Yes because computer science rules over human thoughts feelings.
All the oculists rift seems to be is a screen warped on your face with a few sences. How is it different then a screen a regular screen. It only makes you feel connected.
 

CynicalSquid

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Getting back on topic.

I don't think Nintendo should go third party. Yes, the Wii U is a commercial failure, but did you forget how successful the 3ds is? Also, if I recall correctly, the Wii did better than the PS3 and the Xbox 360 combined. It's not like Nintendo has been horrible these past generations. I don't even think Nintendo should make a gaming PC. Something is magical about the art style in their games. Nintendo doesn't need amazing graphics to be good. Their art style brings something special and unique which other companies are ignoring now. If you think graphics can make or break a game, then you never had this wonderful thing called an NES. The attention to detail in the graphics doesn't do anything. It's the attention to detail in the atmosphere, the style, the gameplay, the gimmicks, the story that seems the same but some how different. I don't know why the Wii U is a failure since I don't own one, but I know why the 3ds is a success. I only have 4 games for it and every game feels and looks magical and amazing. Even if one of them is a remake, everything is awesome and unique. 3ds games are beautiful. More beautiful than Skyrim, or any of the new gen games. It's not something you can put on another console, because with the better graphical capabilities they would probably be forced to make them realistic. I'm not saying I'm against realism, but there's something special and unique about the cartoonish art style that Nintendo is famous for.
 

Musicfan

the shadow mage
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Location
insanity
Getting back on topic.

I don't think Nintendo should go third party. Yes, the Wii U is a commercial failure, but did you forget how successful the 3ds is? Also, if I recall correctly, the Wii did better than the PS3 and the Xbox 360 combined. It's not like Nintendo has been horrible these past generations. I don't even think Nintendo should make a gaming PC. Something is magical about the art style in their games. Nintendo doesn't need amazing graphics to be good. Their art style brings something special and unique which other companies are ignoring now. If you think graphics can make or break a game, then you never had this wonderful thing called an NES. The attention to detail in the graphics doesn't do anything. It's the attention to detail in the atmosphere, the style, the gameplay, the gimmicks, the story that seems the same but some how different. I don't know why the Wii U is a failure since I don't own one, but I know why the 3ds is a success. I only have 4 games for it and every game feels and looks magical and amazing. Even if one of them is a remake, everything is awesome and unique. 3ds games are beautiful. More beautiful than Skyrim, or any of the new gen games. It's not something you can put on another console, because with the better graphical capabilities they would probably be forced to make them realistic. I'm not saying I'm against realism, but there's something special and unique about the cartoonish art style that Nintendo is famous for.
Where is the like button
 

Salem

SICK
Joined
May 18, 2013
Do you people actually understand what what low-level means in a computer science context
Please give us links to what this means in a computer science context.

Getting back on topic.

I don't think Nintendo should go third party. Yes, the Wii U is a commercial failure, but did you forget how successful the 3ds is? Also, if I recall correctly, the Wii did better than the PS3 and the Xbox 360 combined. It's not like Nintendo has been horrible these past generations. I don't even think Nintendo should make a gaming PC. Something is magical about the art style in their games. Nintendo doesn't need amazing graphics to be good. Their art style brings something special and unique which other companies are ignoring now. If you think graphics can make or break a game, then you never had this wonderful thing called an NES. The attention to detail in the graphics doesn't do anything. It's the attention to detail in the atmosphere, the style, the gameplay, the gimmicks, the story that seems the same but some how different. I don't know why the Wii U is a failure since I don't own one, but I know why the 3ds is a success. I only have 4 games for it and every game feels and looks magical and amazing. Even if one of them is a remake, everything is awesome and unique. 3ds games are beautiful. More beautiful than Skyrim, or any of the new gen games. It's not something you can put on another console, because with the better graphical capabilities they would probably be forced to make them realistic. I'm not saying I'm against realism, but there's something special and unique about the cartoonish art style that Nintendo is famous for.
Exactly, if every game was overzealous in increasing "immersion" and making everything realistic and stuff, all games would look the same.
 

Musicfan

the shadow mage
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Location
insanity
All humans are is complex computers. If you're not vested in CompSci, don't try to analyse human-computer interactions. You'll end up with a subjectile opinion, which is unscientific. Look at this from an objective view.

And have you actually tried the Rift? The super-wide field of view combined with low-latency head tracking replaces your entire visual input with the game. You visual subsystem, as well as part of your output subsystem is essentially hijacked. That's as close as we can get to direct MBI at this point.

Never tell people what not to do or they will rebel.
I pity you if that is all you view humans as
you are a very sad human being.
 

Musicfan

the shadow mage
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Location
insanity
There's something called Google. But if you don't know the basics of how programming and computers work, you won't understand anyways.

Well why not provide a link or to to back up your argument.
it makes it more believable.

Also there's the fact that you will know that it is still a game. You still have to imagine it not being a game.
 

Musicfan

the shadow mage
Joined
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Location
insanity

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