Reworking the Hylian Knights

[Jamie]

I still believe purging is the way to go. I've explained why; I'd like to rework everything. Nothing is set in stone, and the opinions posted in this thread are certainly all going to be taken into consideration. You and I clearly will not agree on this matter, so I don't see the point in discussing it, but I encourage you to keep posting your reasoning here if you feel it necessary as myself and the other staff will take it all into consideration.

 

[Emma]

I still believe purging is the way to go. I've explained why; I'd like to rework everything. Nothing is set in stone, and the opinions posted in this thread are certainly all going to be taken into consideration. You and I clearly will not agree on this matter, so I don't see the point in discussing it, but I encourage you to keep posting your reasoning here if you feel it necessary as myself and the other staff will take it all into consideration.

I still see it as a baseless punishment. Demotions shouldn't be so casually handed out. And I don't think admin authority should be used to force the issue. You said this was just about gathering opinions before. But it clearly looks like you're going to insist on the demotions and settle for nothing less. The other side has given a lot of ground. But demotions are not something I personally am going to budge on. It's immoral, completely unethical, and a complete abuse of power. You can't ignore how it looks like you're trying to censor opinions.

Look at what it's going to do. Many knights currently disagree with what you want to do. And suddenly you declare that your solution is to purge them back and add back "some of them". That cannot look like anything but censorship and blackmail. It looks like only people who agree with you are going to be the "new knights." The only possible reason to remove the current ones is to eliminate opinions you don't agree with. And if you force the issue, that's going to be what people are going to assume you're doing and it's going to undermine your position.

 

[Onilink89]

I still believe purging is the way to go.

The HK was purged before (twice actualy) when it lost its actual purpose and gave it a new purpose for just being an "active member and role model". But this time, drama repeated itself again and here we are ready to purge again.

So let me ask you this, you truly think this is a solution? Purging over and over and repeating the drama over and over. And now especialy since everyone can vote has a saying, voting over and over? And justify every big decision and change by the staff because "the members voted for this"

Can you say with certainty that after this 3rd purge, there won't be a 4th?

 

[Jamie]

Actually, we will try to promote as many people as we can outside of the current HK rank because we want to avoid the idea that some HKs aren't "good enough" and promote the fact that we are rebuilding with new faces, and some new ideas. It's not that the current knights will disagree with me, in fact, other people in the staff chat who agree with the "purge" as you call it, disagree with some of my opinions. But I just don't think major changes can be made how it is at the moment.

 

[Emma]

The HK was purged before (twice actualy) when it lost its actual purpose and gave it a new purpose for just being an "active member and role model". But this time, drama repeated itself again and here we are ready to purge again.

So let me ask you this, you truly think this is a solution? Purging over and over and repeating the drama over and over. And now especialy since everyone can vote has a saying, voting over and over? And justify every big decision and change by the staff because "the members voted for this"

Can you say with certainty that after this 3rd purge, there won't be a 4th?

Not to mention that the replacements will be inherently biased towards their point of view. Only people who agree with them will get voted back in. If not, then there'd be no reason to remove them. Removing them would only be done to eliminate dissenting opinions. It just looks like something to pass it off as democracy, while really it is just an ultimatum.

Actually, we will try to promote as many people as we can outside of the current HK rank because we want to avoid the idea that some HKs aren't "good enough" and promote the fact that we are rebuilding with new faces, and some new ideas. It's not that the current knights will disagree with me, in fact, other people in the staff chat who agree with the "purge" as you call it, disagree with some of my opinions. But I just don't think major changes can be made how it is at the moment.

If it's not about disagreeing with you, you have NO reason to demote them. It's the only possible reason that makes any sense. If that's not your reason, then it has no reason. And it's not justfiable. Anyone who has been very vocal against you, like me, has zero chance of making the new list. It's a blatant attempt to censor those who don't agree with your side.

 

[tketle]

The whole thing about thew Hylian Knights is that as a community we will recognize an individual for being a very active member, friendly member of the community, and has overall good behavior with a recognition for all their effort in making the community a little better. With that comes a shiny purple name and a forum section to post in. Nothing more than that, they are not meant to be any special usergroup with more rights and privileges. Just a recognition for effort and positive behavior.

Why would an award not suffice? I absolutely support recognizing outstanding behavior within the ZD community, but what benefit is there in separating the outstanding members from the normal ones via rank?

 

[Snow Queen]

Why would an award not suffice? I absolutely support recognizing outstanding behavior within the ZD community, but what benefit is there in separating the outstanding members from the normal ones via rank?

Exactly. Why does there need to be a rank for this in the first place?

 

[Emma]

Why would an award not suffice? I absolutely support recognizing outstanding behavior within the ZD community, but what benefit is there in separating the outstanding members from the normal ones via rank?

A major reason being used to justfy this is that people don't like people being rewarded for being a role model. An award just continues that problem and is not a solution. In that case it's very arbitrary up to the whim of teh upper staff. And it makes it more exclusive and more elite. It just makes the very reasons that are being used against it, worse. The answer is in making it less exclusive, not more exclusive.

 

[Jamie]

Actually, out of the HKs right now, one would certainly make my list (note that this does not mean he will be on the final list if there is a final list, as all of the staff will discuss it)

Thareous would certainly be on my list, and he has disagreed with me and others quite a bit on this matter. The reason to demote them is to get a clean slate and discuss it with a smaller group of people. Again, I don't think it's feasible to get these ideas through with the amount of knights at the moment. Not just my ideas, because as I've said, other staff members have disagreed with me, including those who also want to "purge", but everyone staff members ideas, along with the ideas of the "new" knights. We'd also like to, again, promote some non-knights as new faces to discuss these ideas with, as at least I believe that people who aren't knights are able to think more out of the box on the knights.

 

[Emma]

Actually, out of the HKs right now, one would certainly make my list (note that this does not mean he will be on the final list if there is a final list, as all of the staff will discuss it)

Thareous would certainly be on my list, and he has disagreed with me and others quite a bit on this matter. The reason to demote them is to get a clean slate and discuss it with a smaller group of people. Again, I don't think it's feasible to get these ideas through with the amount of knights at the moment. Not just my ideas, because as I've said, other staff members have disagreed with me, including those who also want to "purge", but everyone staff members ideas, along with the ideas of the "new" knights. We'd also like to, again, promote some non-knights as new faces to discuss these ideas with, as at least I believe that people who aren't knights are able to think more out of the box on the knights.

This still looks like attempts to censor people to me. It still looks like you want to exclude people. Complaining about the current number being too many, while at the same time wanting new faces, would mean only a very few of the current ones will be retained. And since most of them disagree with you, there's no other way to see it than an attempt at censorship. I don't think you can justify this action. And the more you push for it, the more it's going to look like you want to censor people who don't agree with you.

 

[Jamie]

If you'd like, I can completely abstain from picking the new knights and only allow the other staff members to discuss it.

 

[Johnny Sooshi]

A major reason being used to justfy this is that people don't like people being rewarded for being a role model. An award just continues that problem and is not a solution. In that case it's very arbitrary up to the whim of teh upper staff. And it makes it more exclusive and more elite. It just makes the very reasons that are being used against it, worse. The answer is in making it less exclusive, not more exclusive.

I'm kinda coming in blind so if I'm off base, I'm sorry but I would like to point out that, when I'm given an award for being a role model, I take and thank those who gave it to me. I don't really need a rank or anything to say "Yo, you're an awesome role model, here's some special status." Personally, I could care less, but if it's gonna cause all this drama, just get rid of the thing. Like, do you really need a special digital shade of purple and some text saying why you're special?

 

[Emma]

If you'd like, I can completely abstain from picking the new knights and only allow the other staff members to discuss it.

One problem with that. You claimed that most of the staff agrees with you. Meaning that they should all obstain. But then no one is left. And presumably it'll be lead to the public. And currently there is a very angry and vocal group of people who will rally against anyone who wants to save the knights at least in some form. They want it totally gone. So only people who support that position stand any chance of being voted back.

So unless you were mistaken about how many staff support your position on the knights, I don't think it is going to work. The fairest thing to do is to abandon the whole demotion idea and invite all the current knights to show up. If some never participate, then you know who is not committed. That would be entirely fair and it wouldn't be subject to any bias.

I'm kinda coming in blind so if I'm off base, I'm sorry but I would like to point out that, when I'm given an award for being a role model, I take and thank those who gave it to me. I don't really need a rank or anything to say "Yo, you're an awesome role model, here's some special status." Personally, I could care less, but if it's gonna cause all this drama, just get rid of the thing. Like, do you really need a special digital shade of purple and some text saying why you're special?

I think I should point out that I have repeatedly proposed a solution that takes all that meaning away from it and no one will listen. My suggestion is turning it into a group that anyone can join if they ask. The point would be having a commitment to be role models, rather than being rewarded for being them, so it's not appointed by anyone and no looks at them as one. Because then it won't have that meaning and if people don't live up to it, people can just not like that person. And all that original meaning that no one likes would be gone. I like this solution, but no one will discuss it. I think we should discuss it.

 

[tketle]

A major reason being used to justfy this is that people don't like people being rewarded for being a role model. An award just continues that problem and is not a solution. In that case it's very arbitrary up to the whim of teh upper staff. And it makes it more exclusive and more elite. It just makes the very reasons that are being used against it, worse. The answer is in making it less exclusive, not more exclusive.

That wouldn't have to be the case at all. At this point we've done nothing but introduce the idea of an award. What the criteria for receiving it would be, who'd decide its recipients -- the details have yet to be discussed. It's just an idea. What do you think would be the best way to handle it if the rank were converted into some kind of award?

 

[Djinn]

Why would an award not suffice? I absolutely support recognizing outstanding behavior within the ZD community, but what benefit is there in separating the outstanding members from the normal ones via rank?

Well HK's predate awards by several years, also I believe Locke was in favor of turning it into an award not very long ago but that might also be viewed the same as simply removing the whole usergroup. And I am not often in favor of removing things from the forums if possible.