Game Thread Pokemon Delta Emerald Mafia - BMGf Crossover - Endgame - 5/10/2017

[funnier6]

If there really are "moles" in either Mason set, then that means they could transmit information back to the scum chat. But I find that entire supposition to be highly unlikely, mostly because I've never heard of a role that could do that. Surely their wincons would mention something like "seek out the double-agents and uncover their misdeeds" or something like that. But just be to certain...

@funnier Are you able to confirm if your alignment is Town or neutral? I believe @musicfan already said something about being Town, so...

Our wincon is when all enemies of town are defeated, so yes Town not neutral.

 

[Morbid Minish]

Guess I'll give some of my reads, even though I don't have a whole lot.

Spoiler: Reads list

• funnier6 - Unsure on him now. Had a town lean day 1, but the new mason counterclaims kinda muddied that. If I had to choose one of the claims to believe I'd go with Dom/music over funnier/rainami. But I do think it would be risky for one of the pairs to be scum fake claiming, so I'm going to accept both claims for the time being. Someone may be able to check into them and find out more information for us later, so I'm fine with leaving them alone for now.

• EMIYA Shirou - Maybe the slightest scum lean? After thinking about it more, I feel like he's playing more like he did when we were scumbuds than he has as town. I feel like some of his reads this time have been slightly off. A specific instance that struck me as strange was his statement that it seemed as though me and Mezlo were working together. I think he may have been hinting at us possibly being scumbuds together, when he was on a scum team with both me and Mez very recently and knows that's not how we would have acted at all.

• Storm- Not much to say here that I haven't already said. Still don't know if he's being replaced or not.

• CheffOfGames - Null. Hasn't said much, so I'd have to see more from them. Gave a very brief reads list day 1. I don't entirely agree with his reads, but nothing really stood out there.

• Pendio - Null as well. He hasn't said a whole lot either, but then again he usually doesn't. But nothing that he has said has looked bad to me yet.

• A Link In Time - Not sure. Maybe the slightest town lean, mostly due to the fact that he said he softclaimed and re-reading his posts, I may see it, but I'm also not sure that I'm right about what he was claiming. But he doesn't look to be playing like he does as scum, and I don't really agree that some of the things people have pointed out about him are scummy.

• Jamie - Probably won't get a good read on him for a while. He's a good scum player, so even though I don't see anything I'd consider bad from him right now, that doesn't mean anything.

• Domozilla777 - Town lean. I believe he and music are masons as they didn't really have a reason to claim day 1 if they're not, and I don't think Dom is knowledgeable enough about mafia to pull of a fake claim like that.

• AussieEevee - Asked for a replacement. No read.

• musicfan - Town lean. Basically same thing as Dom, though I believe music is pretty knowledgeable about mafia (even though I haven't played many games with him before). But he looks like he has when he's been town and his responses about the masons claim seem solid.

• Feenie - Null. Felt pretty good about her posts at the beginning of day 1, but then she seemed to go back and forth on her opinions a lot. Plus some people from BMG has said her play has been odd, while others say that it looks normal so it's hard to say which one is right.

• Midorikawa - Not sure. Haven't agreed with a lot of things she has said, and also noted earlier that I didn't like her vote on Libk. So maybe wanting to lean scum there right now until she posts more.

• Bok of the Wild- Town lean. Bok is always town. And his posts look consistent with his town play. Very concise and to the point, and he had the same thoughts I had about Yiga day 1, he just said them in a more thought out way.

• Floppolio - Null read. Hasn't said a lot but did say they haven't been feeling well, so maybe they'll feel better to post more soon.

• Space - Null/maybe more towards scum lean. Said in one post that they understood the suspicion on Lone, and then later said the votes on him seemed out of proportion. So they could just be going with whatever the popular opinion at the time is to blend in. Plus said that rainami's vote on Lone gave no reason, but then voted for ALIT because his reason for voting Lone coincided with previous reasoning. Which I don't find to be an odd thing, and certainly no reason looks worse than agreeing with others reasons.

• Finn Bálor - Null. Hasn't posted but once so far. Nothing to say about him.

• Libk - Null. He also hasn't said much, but then again he's never very active as either alignment.

• Lone_Garurumon - Town lean. He had a pretty good defense for himself on day 1 after catching some heat. I liked that his vote was meant to try and turn discussion serious. Plus his recent questioning of the masons looks pretty good to me as well. (Not to mention I just really like his profile picture since I'm a pretty big Goofy Movie fan.)

• DarthWolf - Null/maybe slight town read. Haven't seen anything too off about the things they've said. Even though I didn't agree with his reason for voting ALIT or his theory about Storm being jester, they seem to look like actual game solving things, which is pretty good.

• Lilac - Null/slight town read. She's new so it's hard to say anything for sure, but I don't think she's done anything I'd consider scummy so far.

• Rainami - Not sure on her either, like with funnier. But like I said, I'm willing to accept their claims for the time being as we might possibly have someone who can check into them and see if they're telling the truth. But I'll definitely be keeping an eye on her, as the counterclaims were kinda messy, and her suggestion to claim to the other claimed masons (and for a doc to heal them), look like there's some scummy motives there.

• Kuro- Null/maybe slight town lean. I feel like they may be a little hard to read due to their playstyle. I don't feel like there's necessarily any bad intentions there right now though, and they seem to be contributing quite a bit.

 

[Morbid Minish]

I disagree, there's a big difference on whether he was lynched or night killed. After he flipped I would've been able to form much better reads from the votes on him (assuming others actually would've voted him seriously) And if he'd known he was going to die he would've claimed so I don't think we ever would've lynched him.

Why would you get better reads from the votes on him, when you said you'd be reading into the interactions? You can still read into those interactions, especially now knowing his alignment. Both of the lynches were town lynches, so scum could have been on either one. Plus you saying you don't think we would have ever lynched him since he would have claimed had he been in danger is kinda contradictory to the point you've been trying to make. Especially as in that case he would've just been night killed anyways like he was.

 

[Lily]

So hang on can I get any confirmation if we've had any role claims yet? I dont remember, and I'd rather be sure.

So my reads (as "useful" as they probably aren't) are as follows:

Spoiler

1. Funnier6 - I believe the claims on both sets of Masons.
2. Emiya Shirou - I dont quite have enough info on him yet.
3. Storm - He asked to be subbed and hasn't, said to wait for D2 but nothing so far. Possibly blocked?
4. CheffOfGames - I dont think I've seen a post from you actually? If you have your inactive.
5. Pendio - Not seeing much activity.
6. A Link In Time - Acknowledged Yiga and Storm as mislynches but jumped on Yiga anyway.
7. Jamie - Dont have enough info for a read.
8. Domozilla777 - I believe the claims on both sets of Masons.
9. AussieEevee - Wants to be subbed, assuming inactive.
10. musicfan - I believe the claims on both sets of Masons.
11. Feenie - Jumped on Yiga for no reason, then unvoted, and jumped back on when the wagon got larger.
12. Midorikawa - Hard to read at the moment.
13. Bok of the Wild - Seems fairly easy to read and doesnt seem to be making any kind of slip ups.
14. Floppolio - Not much activity, inactive?
15. Space - Votes and suspicions keep contradicting, are they new like me? @Bulbagarden
16. Finn Balor - I don't think this person even knows were playing?
17. Libk - Not much activity, can't read yet.
18. Lone_Garurumon - Wasn't sure at first due to the Mezlo situation, but defended themselves enough to pass for now.
19. DarthWolf - Dont have enough info for a read.
20. Minish_Link - Very analytical and was on Mezlo's defense, slight town read so far.
21. Rainami - I believe the claims on both sets of Masons.
22. Kuro - Seems kind of aggressive but makes valid points thus far.

 

[Feenie]

Vote: Feenie

I mentioned her strange voting and unvoting on the Yigahim wagon yesterday, and she has yet to respond to others suspicions of her voting patterns.

Okay I need to read the thread since I haven't had opportunity to yet, I've been busy, but can you explain why the voting and unvoting was strange? I want it put into words why it was strange. I've heard how it was just strange, but I really don't understand why it was strange and with no one really putting it into words I won't. Unless they have and I haven't seen it yet--still need to read what I've missed--then I'll stand corrected. But anyway I think this is being made into a bigger deal than it really is and I feel like a lot of you are just jumping onto that because nothing else really came of his lynch because yiga never had opportunity to come in and defend(?) himself. I mean I didn't have to add the vote back on, he was the majority anyhow, so adding my vote on was done so because I truly thought he was suspicious. Anyway will be back with a post, gotta read through what I've missed.

 

[Feenie]

However I don't think she's a good push today. She mentioned internet issues, so it might be better to push after confirmation of more stable internet.

Thank you Midori! The internet connection is stable again now, so no worries.

You unvoted when you heard it was a joke but jumped right back on when his wagon started shaping up and were quite adamant about it as well. Asides that do you have any reads as of now? That would really help clear up any misconceptions.

Alright, let's hypothetically say I were scum--why would I unvote and jump back on a wagon that was gaining speed when it would rightfully make me look suspicious? That just doesn't make sense--I mean, at that time it was obvious that yiga was gaining the majority. I had really no reason to add my vote back on, other than the fact that he was the only person whom I felt strongly enough to put my vote on. I'm not going to put my vote on someone for the sake of it, I'll only put it on someone I feel is mafia. And I thought he was, and I wanted to be a part of that wagon, whether or not it meant putting my vote back on or not. I'm really not sure what's so hard to understand about that. I also stated my reads a bit before, so it's not as if I haven't done that either. I've gotten town reads from funnier, Midori, and Kuro. Kuro is probably my strongest town read at the moment. My scum reads are, well, you, Emiya, and ALIT.

I had no reason for doing so. It was completely irrational of me.

Something to keep note of.

They may have been someone I don't like. I still don't like link but I'm curious if anyone caught his softclaim.

I didn't get the softclaim either? What was it?

 

[Lily]

Alright, let's hypothetically say I were scum--why would I unvote and jump back on a wagon that was gaining speed when it would rightfully make me look suspicious? That just doesn't make sense--I mean, at that time it was obvious that yiga was gaining the majority. I had really no reason to add my vote back on, other than the fact that he was the only person whom I felt strongly enough to put my vote on. I'm not going to put my vote on someone for the sake of it, I'll only put it on someone I feel is mafia. And I thought he was, and I wanted to be a part of that wagon, whether or not it meant putting my vote back on or not. I'm really not sure what's so hard to understand about that. I also stated my reads a bit before, so it's not as if I haven't done that either. I've gotten town reads from funnier, Midori, and Kuro. Kuro is probably my strongest town read at the moment. My scum reads are, well, you, Emiya, and ALIT.

I agree, you didn't have a reason to put your vote back on. Yiga wasn't able to defend himself and was lynched for a joke vote, yet you seemed to feel strongly about him just for that reason? That sounds scummy to me especially if you wanted to be on that wagon no matter what.

That aside what exactly have I done that reads scummy other than question you?

 

[Pen]

If they're really a Mason they have no reason to be suspicious. I don't see what this question accomplishes.

If you had read along with the thread you would have seen the discussion about whether one of the Masons in a pair was sectrtly Mafia. That was why I wanted to know what funnier thought regarding his own Mason buddy.

There's no Bastard mechanics because the hosts haven't said there are Bastard mechanics. We tend to react very negatively if we're lied to about that stuff.

I would still never rule out the possibility of minor bastard mechanics like that. Anyway, it doesn't really matter too much.

That aside what exactly have I done that reads scummy other than question you?

Questioning other players is a good thing, and should never be concidered scummy. Personally I've seen nothing suspicious from your end yet.

 

[Feenie]

I agree, you didn't have a reason to put your vote back on. Yiga wasn't able to defend himself and was lynched for a joke vote, yet you seemed to feel strongly about him just for that reason? That sounds scummy to me especially if you wanted to be on that wagon no matter what.

In my defense, I didn't really know that yiga wasn't able to get back on and not be able to defend himself. Again, I'll direct you to this post.

These [url="https://zeldadungeon.net/forum/thre...y-1-01-09-2017.60844/page-23#post-1110738]two[/url] posts were made well after the joke phase had ended. And yet, he still kept his vote on, despite clearly having been around.

It made me think that he was intentionally not answering questions directed at him and avoiding the thread, although it is now apparent to me that he was not. Back to my ' if I were hypothetically scum' thing again, I didn't even need to be on the lynch if I were scum and wanted a lynch to go through on a townie--if that's what you're contending right now... I could've just kept my vote off the time I unvoted and watched as the other votes piled on and made myself look good by taking it off. But he just seemed scummy to me because of that joke vote that he didn't take off when he could've taken it off, so yes I decided to be part of the lynch.

That aside what exactly have I done that reads scummy other than question you?

It's fine if you question me, that's all part of the game. I don't mind that. I said my reasons even before you started to question me, though. Your posts before this point all struck me as CWAC, but right now that isn't the case. That was my main point for suspecting you before. Right now I just feel like you're sort of tunneling on me, as well as ALIT--for something that I just still don't really understand. I find ALIT to be more suspicious than you, due to his voting yiga and that vote being put on just because he wanted a lynch and he also somehow knew it was going to be mislynch. I don't see how he knew it was going to be a mislynch.

 

[Lily]

In my defense, I didn't really know that yiga wasn't able to get back on and not be able to defend himself. Again, I'll direct you to this post.

It made me think that he was intentionally not answering questions directed at him and avoiding the thread, although it is now apparent to me that he was not. Back to my ' if I were hypothetically scum' thing again, I didn't even need to be on the lynch if I were scum and wanted a lynch to go through on a townie--if that's what you're contending right now... I could've just kept my vote off the time I unvoted and watched as the other votes piled on and made myself look good by taking it off. But he just seemed scummy to me because of that joke vote that he didn't take off when he could've taken it off, so yes I decided to be part of the lynch.


It's fine if you question me, that's all part of the game. I don't mind that. I said my reasons even before you started to question me, though. Your posts before this point all struck me as CWAC, but right now that isn't the case. That was my main point for suspecting you before. Right now I just feel like you're sort of tunneling on me, as well as ALIT--for something that I just still don't really understand. I find ALIT to be more suspicious than you, due to his voting yiga and that vote being put on just because he wanted a lynch and he also somehow knew it was going to be mislynch. I don't see how he knew it was going to be a mislynch.

I can understand you didn't know he was unable to defend himself. But the fact that you found out it was a joke and backed off only to jump on later "just because since he was going down anyway" doesnt sit right with me. What if "hypothetically" he HAD come back and tried to defend himself but was hammered before he could. Your vote would have been a factor in his death.

Also I can promise I'm not tunneling, I'm just applying pressure under the idea that you MIGHT be scum, and I'm only asking a few questions. I asked about Storm on D1 and i'm looking into ALIT too as you said. Not only that but wouldn't constantly going after the Masons, like others are doing, be tunneling as well?

 

[funnier6]

Thank you Midori! The internet connection is stable again now, so no worries.


Alright, let's hypothetically say I were scum--why would I unvote and jump back on a wagon that was gaining speed when it would rightfully make me look suspicious? That just doesn't make sense--I mean, at that time it was obvious that yiga was gaining the majority. I had really no reason to add my vote back on, other than the fact that he was the only person whom I felt strongly enough to put my vote on. I'm not going to put my vote on someone for the sake of it, I'll only put it on someone I feel is mafia. And I thought he was, and I wanted to be a part of that wagon, whether or not it meant putting my vote back on or not. I'm really not sure what's so hard to understand about that. I also stated my reads a bit before, so it's not as if I haven't done that either. I've gotten town reads from funnier, Midori, and Kuro. Kuro is probably my strongest town read at the moment. My scum reads are, well, you, Emiya, and ALIT.


Something to keep note of.


I didn't get the softclaim either? What was it?

I'm interested in your scum reads, explain your thought process on all three please, and I must say lilac is looking more towny imo.

Ima be busy for a couple hours so I'll reply to everything eventually.

 

[Feenie]

I can understand you didn't know he was unable to defend himself. But the fact that you found out it was a joke and backed off only to jump on later "just because since he was going down anyway" doesnt sit right with me. What if "hypothetically" he HAD come back and tried to defend himself but was hammered before he could. Your vote would have been a factor in his death.

I never said I jumped back on the vote because he was 'going down anyway', that is definitely not why I voted. I voted because I found his actions suspicious. I didn't like the way he came in, claimed it was a joke, but never unvoted even when he could've at that time. It didn't sit well with me, that's the reason I voted--not because I wanted to really see him go down. That hypothetical factor really can't be answered because it didn't happen. If he had come in and given a defense, that would've changed things but I can't say anything against that because a) I have no idea on what he would've said, it could've made things better or potentially worse and b) it never happened.

Also I can promise I'm not tunneling, I'm just applying pressure under the idea that you MIGHT be scum, and I'm only asking a few questions. I asked about Storm on D1 and i'm looking into ALIT too as you said. Not only that but wouldn't constantly going after the Masons, like others are doing, be tunneling as well?

This is fair, I agree.

I'm interested in your scum reads, explain your thought process on all three please, and I must say lilac is looking more towny imo.

As far as Emiya goes, I feel like he was pushing for the lynch on yiga while being very passive about it. He even made the comment himself (I think it was him, this'll be embarrassing if it wasn't lol) that scum doesn't need to be on a wagon Day 1 for a lynch to happen and this will make them go under the radar easier. Emiya if this wasn't you sorry, I thought it was I may need to recheck that. Anyway, back on topic, he didn't vote yiga and in fact he didn't vote at all. Yet he made this comment to Kuro

Hm? This is odd. Why are you trying to push for an alternate lynch all of a sudden? Also, have you voted already? I didn't see anything on the latest tally.

He also never really explained his town reads but just passed it off with a very simple 'explanation' that was just cryptic. His posts just come across as passive to me, and all-in-all I don't like how he seemed to want a lynch but never ended up voting himself.

As for ALIT, what was his soft-claim? I saw that being brought up but I didn't find it and that might change my opinion of him.

 

[A Link In Time]

Spoiler

Spoiler

I'm not satisfied with that reply. The first one was to me yesterday, so I saw it then, but I would like Feenie to reply to the more detailed cases on her, particularly the one posted by Bok of the Wild.

As for my vote on Yigahim, I did indeed mention that I had hoped he would maybe flip scum and/or a sensor could give us information about one of the Day 1 wagons, but those were mostly pipe dreams.

 

[A Link In Time]

I would love for you to elaborate further on this, because right now it looks very vague. What exactly about my meta makes you think I'm scum?



I have not caught the softclsim. You apparently did though, so why did you vote for him?



Tell me, how suspicious are you of your supposed Mason buddy?



What's to say this game doesn't utilise a few bastard mechanics? I've had little things that could be considered bastard in at least three of the games I've hosted on here, but those games were never viewed as bastard games. That being said I think the most likely thing is that all of the claimed Masons are Town, though I still don't want to rule out the possibility of one of them being scum.

I highly doubt masons of different factions are used. That plays too much on shattering standard definitions of roles. As someone said earlier, masons are the same alignment while neighbors may be different.

 

[A Link In Time]

Okay I need to read the thread since I haven't had opportunity to yet, I've been busy, but can you explain why the voting and unvoting was strange? I want it put into words why it was strange. I've heard how it was just strange, but I really don't understand why it was strange and with no one really putting it into words I won't. Unless they have and I haven't seen it yet--still need to read what I've missed--then I'll stand corrected. But anyway I think this is being made into a bigger deal than it really is and I feel like a lot of you are just jumping onto that because nothing else really came of his lynch because yiga never had opportunity to come in and defend(?) himself. I mean I didn't have to add the vote back on, he was the majority anyhow, so adding my vote on was done so because I truly thought he was suspicious. Anyway will be back with a post, gotta read through what I've missed.

Well, your specific behavior stood out to me because it reminded me of something I did last game, namely vote a scum buddy on Day 1 but then have to quickly pivot off because he wasn't on to defend himself. Now that YIGA flipped town, I know that isn't the case. But it has me concernee that you were trying to wash your hands of any responsibility for the YIGA wagon. This is perhaps a difference in how we view the game as your posts give me the impression that you want to give people a chance to reply and don't feel comfortable with lynching them unless they return with an unsatisfactory response while I prefer to sit on a wagon until they reply and won't get off just because they haven't done so.