Nightwish

[Hanyou]

Since I made this thread, you can assume I'm a fan of Nightwish. I'll articulate why. I run the risk of seeming elitist, so here's a disclaimer: I realize these are just opinions. If you'd like, add an "IMHO" modifier to all my comments.

I'm not a huge fan of post-80's metal. There are a few bands I like, a few I love (Dream Theater's career really took off after the 80's, and they're spectacular), but these seem to be exceptions to the general rule that the face of metal changed after such bands as Iron Maiden and Queensryche stopped dominating the scene. It got much less fun, a bit less epic, and probably lined up with the more pessimistic 90's/ 00's sensibility. Bands like Symphony X were never as mainstream as they should have been, and the bombast that defined patently mainstream 80's metal (whether glam, heavy, power, or any other genre) was relegated to a niche. People still do a double-take when I mention power metal band Rhapsody of Fire, for example, but they'll recite Tool lyrics at the drop of a hat--and one-hit wonders like Dragonforce, as awesome as they are, aren't diverse enough to emulate or advance any part of the style so popular during metal's golden age.

But there's always Nightwish.


The Good

The thing about Nightwish is that they seem to take the aforementioned tradition of bombast quite seriously, and they go all-out with it, whether backed by an orchestra (the one that scored the Lord of the Rings movies, no less!) or quality synths. Their former vocalist, Tarja Turunen, might have been one of the best metal's ever seen, and their new one isn't half-bad. They have the heft, popularity, and diversity of style to carry them through plenty more years. They have the courage to evolve their style with each album in spite of their popularity, to challenge themselves to write equal parts accessible and complex music.

This Finnish metal band might just have picked up the torch NWOBHM bands dropped long ago (not to say Iron Maiden's not still going strong).

And Ghost Love Score is one of the most beautiful, epic songs ever written.

The Bad

In spite of all this praise, they're not perfect. They dress like a Lord of the Rings convention, and their image nearly deterred me at first (luckily, I'm not superficial enough to have let that happen). Their lyrics can be exceptionally weak and cliched (see Amaranth, Nemo, and many of their other popular songs). And while they do boast more diversity than some other Power Metal bands, with material ranging from the brutally serene Sleeping Sun to the brash, headbanging Planet Hell, their music can start to sound samey after awhile. This is particularly true of their two latest albums, where I initially got some songs confused (Amaranth and The Escapist, the latter of which is the superior piece, can be difficult for newcomers to tell apart).

Luckily, there are excuses for all of these. Concerning image: all metal bands tend to sort of grow into a bizarre look, and my aversion to Nightwish's image may only be personal preference. Concerning the lyrics: many quality metal songs have not had very much poetry (see Alexander the Great by Iron Maiden or Holy Diver by Dio). Their bad lyrics are very bad, true, and a bit silly in their "believe in yourself" or "my life is hopeless" message, but they do strike gold every once in awhile, as was the case in, say, the haunting Beauty of the Beast (cliche theme, brilliant presentation). Finally, their style is good enough that occasional, recent repetition isn't grating. It's often welcome.

Conclusion

Nightwish is not only a good band, but a logical evolution of the bombastic and epic heavy metal of the 80's. It has the added benefit of popularity and mass appeal, as well as an astronomical budget. They're not the best metal band of all time (or even of the past two decades) but their popularity is encouraging.

If this is to be the future of mainstream metal, metalheads of every stripe should celebrate it.

Post your thoughts on this band. n_n

 

[Skull_Kid]

I really liked Nightwish, when Tarja was still the singer, now that she is gone, the new singer is sucky! My favorite Nightwish album must be "Oceanborn", even though i also really like Century Child and Wishmaster... Once was an okay album, their new album is crappy, and Angels Fall First has some good tracks

 

[Ver-go-a-go-go]

Weren't they the ones that re-did Phantom of the Opera?

Yeah, I thought that was really good.

 

[silent lion]

Nightwish rock, and have been my favourite band for years. Oceanbourne's my faveourite album, if you don't include Highest Hopes (best of pre-DPP). I'm an imaginative type of person, and listening to their songs always conjures up more images than most other music. In short, they're inspiring. As a keyboardist, Tuomas' parts are great fun to learn, too.

 

[Hanyou]

I really liked Nightwish, when Tarja was still the singer, now that she is gone, the new singer is sucky!

I really like Anette, and don't get why so many Nightwish fans can't stand her. She's not nearly as good as Tarja, but she's good--she has a brighter sound, and the band's accommodated her.

Then again, Amaranth was the first Nightwish song I heard, so I didn't really start with Tarja. I like Dark Passion Play even more than Once, though Oceanborn's my favorite of their albums.

It's fair to admit that Tarja was a tough act to follow.

 

[Skull_Kid]

Anette is hawt, but her voice is annoying a crappy... I started to hear them back when Wishmaster was released, and after Tarja leaved i completely dumped them

 

[Claire]

I really like Anette, and don't get why so many Nightwish fans can't stand her. She's not nearly as good as Tarja, but she's good--she has a brighter sound, and the band's accommodated her.

Then again, Amaranth was the first Nightwish song I heard, so I didn't really start with Tarja. I like Dark Passion Play even more than Once, though Oceanborn's my favorite of their albums.

It's fair to admit that Tarja was a tough act to follow.

I personally will still listen to Nightwish, despite the change in lead singers. Nightwish has gained more fame through Anette as well. Tarja and Anette are two totally different women, with totally different styles, this includes their styling as vocalists. I personally find Anette's voice to be more satisfying for a pop band, more so than symphonic metal. I've just never encountered a woman with that type of voice in metal.

I mainly listen to Nightwish within the, as I call it, Tarja era. I will now listen to Tarja Turunen as a solo artist, more than I do listen to Nightwish now. My favorite song with Anette is Eva, and it is the only song I think her voice sounds relatively suited for symphonic metal. I've actually been spending more and more time listening to Marco Hietala, via Northern Kings, Tarot, and the recent recording they had made in, While Your Lips Are Still Red. In those types of recordings, I truly think Marco should have just became the vocalist for Nightwish (despite him having multiple bands he sings for, including his own band).

 

[Skull_Kid]

Marco Hietala has a spectacular voice
That "Eva" song must be the best one with anette,imo... Tarja's solo career isn't as good as Nightwish was, but still very good

 

[Hanyou]

Tarja and Anette are two totally different women, with totally different styles, this includes their styling as vocalists. I personally find Anette's voice to be more satisfying for a pop band, more so than symphonic metal.

Here's the difference: I've encountered very few women in metal, as they always seem to end up in goth bands and the like. The trend may have started to shift, but while there are good female vocalists in metal, it seems there are very few non-brooding metal bands with female leads. Nightwish is the only metal band with a female vocalist I've found remotely approachable, and that's in spite of such songs as Nemo, which seem conventional entries in female-fronted bands. Tarja herself seemed a bit entrenched in this gothic image, as did the band, but their music was different.

If I'm ignorant on this matter, point me in the direction of some material; I wouldn't mind knowing about quality, non-goth-type metal with a female vocalist.

I mainly listen to Nightwish within the, as I call it, Tarja era.

Same here. I find the music they wrote to be richer and deeper, and like I said she's one of my favorite metal vocalists. Tracks like Gethsemane really don't seem like they could be sung by anyone else. And referring back to the "tradition" of metal--the broad genre's always been marked by an operatic, grand vocal style especially suited to epics. It's nice to see someone who for all intents and purposes is an actual opera singer.

I can't help relate it to my first favorite metal band--Blaze Bayley wasn't a bad singer at all, but he made Iron Maiden's music often boring by comparison to the stuff Bruce Dickinson could sing, and Dickinson's own solo material was more inventive and fun than Maiden's during that era. Still, Maiden fans unfairly bash Bayley (and Di'anno, for that matter) because they're not the band's BEST frontman. Unfair. Learn to enjoy the shift, unless it's so utterly dismal that it's really worth abandoning. I didn't like most of the music of the Bayley era, but Bayley himself was good--and the band still deserved all the praise it could get. Still, like I said, Bruce just had more inspiration than Harris at the time.

I haven't heard any of Tarja's solo tracks, but I wouldn't have a hard time believing they're quite good.

I've actually been spending more and more time listening to Marco Hietala, via Northern Kings, Tarot, and the recent recording they had made in, While Your Lips Are Still Red. In those types of recordings, I truly think Marco should have just became the vocalist for Nightwish (despite him having multiple bands he sings for, including his own band).

Ah, then I might have quit. Anette might be a pop singer, but at least she sings a melody rather than growling it out. Marco's voice is as grating as a car without a muffler. I didn't mind him when he acted as punctuation to a song (he was effective on Planet Hell, and, if I recall correctly, even sang most of the stuff), but he's overused. It's like exclamation points--they work some of the time, but most often they only obscure the point you're trying to make (note: the sig below isn't meant to be taken seriously...hence the punctuation)!!!

And most of the time, the written word is just better without them.

 

[Skull_Kid]

But anyways, i prefer Lacuna Coil over Nightwish, and Christina Scabbia is hotter than Tarja and Annete Together xDxDxDxD

 

[Claire]

If I'm ignorant on this matter, point me in the direction of some material; I wouldn't mind knowing about quality, non-goth-type metal with a female vocalist.

The issue here is we share a totally different perspective at what is considered "goth".

Within Temptation is a metal band with a female vocalist. They hail from the Netherlands and they are often classified as a gothic metal band. Although, I do not see what harm or dislike you have in gothic metal - because quite often symphonic metal and gothic metal intertwine.

Leaves' Eyes is yet another band with gothic metal and symphonic metal ties, but with a very talented female vocalist.

Lacuna Coil is often considered one of the most beautiful metal bands in the world, because of their female vocalists, along with Within Temptation. They are as well considered gothic metal and are from Italian roots.

Here is also a link providing female metal bands (be aware that not all are symphonic metal bands, some including doom, metalcore, and melodic death metal).

http://www.last.fm/user/Anne13/journal/2006/09/09/5gj9n_female_fronted_metal_bands

 

[Skull_Kid]

The most beautiful thing in Lacuna Coil is definetely Christina Scabbia Jaw-Dropping gorgeous

Anyways, those Classifications are usually wrong, that's why i don't generally use them... anyways, we're getting way off topic here... what if someone opens a thread about gothic metal, huh?

 

[Hanyou]

Well, "gothic metal" does seem to have a fairly strict set of provisions about image, lyrical content, and musical style (the last of which defines most genres). I was drawn to Nightwish because I love bands like Symphony X and Sonata Arctica (both of which are prog/ power metal) and the Trans-Siberian Orchestra (symphonic/ neo-classical...something). I see Nightwish as a symphonic power metal band, and see them progressively underplaying their originally gothic image--one of the few things about them I criticize.

Googling "gothic metal" yields a number of obvious results, all of which seem to confirm my suspicions. I'm not particularly fond of music focused almost entirely on despair or mock-Victorian imagery, regardless of how symphonic it is. I do make an exception for Nightwish because it is not all they write; I can stomach and even admire the song Beauty of the Beast. If it seems a contradiction, perhaps it is, because that's just the sort of song I'd expect from a Gothic Metal band, and just the sort of song Nightwish doesn't usually write.

But Nightwish draws a nice contrast to the almost fetishistic obsession with "dark" that, if one is to believe the most prominent search results and fanbase, defines gothic metal. It's not my style. I liked metal in the first place because it was a release from the droll, dark, depressing music of the past two decades.

I have heard Within Temptation before. Doesn't hit quite the same taste buds as Nightwish, but I do like it. I looked them up on that highly suspect but efficient information source, Wikipedia, and found an interesting quote from (again, if the article is to be believed) one of the band's founders that the band should not be considered Gothic Metal. This confirms my own suspicions. Judging by what I've seen of them, they wouldn't fit the categorization. Now, whether they actually fit into the category is up to the critics, but it's at least worth noting that they seem to want to distance themselves from the genre.

Perhaps I'm completely wrong. I see nothing against genre labels--"heavy metal" is universally understood to encompass everything from Blue Oyster Cult to some glam metal like Whitesnake, prog metal ranges from Tool to Dream Theater, etc.--labels help you narrow down your choices of what bands to like, and prove surprisingly accurate through much of the metal genre, so long as you remember that labels have a wide range. What am I missing in the "range" of gothic metal?

I would like to thank you for the list. Considering that Within Temptation is on it, I doubt I'd be averse to all of it--and I'll certainly be checking out the link. I asked for this info for a reason, and you answered some important ones while raising other ones. I'm left wondering what the hell Gothic Metal is supposed to be.

And to stay on topic, I just wanted to duly note that Nightwish really is just epic metal to me. Good metal has a way of evoking the intensity, power, and energy of (to use a stereotype) Beethoven's Fifth. What's good about Nightwish isn't their particular genre, but that they are a quality follow-up to bands like The Moody Blues, Queen, Iron Maiden, Dream Theater, and Savatage--all of whom wrote equally epic music. That's their selling point.

 

[Saint Ravenboo]

I've always loved listening to Dark Passion Play, but the new vocalist kind of sucks. However I still listen to their song recordings from back in the day. Still possibly my favorite band, not as well known in my area as they used to be. In fact, most people I talk to about that band never even knew the band existed, despite possibly hearing one or two of their songs on the radio. But, I think I get my love for this band from my father. He always listened to this band, and can even play some of the songs on piano keyboard and guitar.